Shaq as classy as ever!

[rickortreat]

Maybe you should think about it from the big fella's point of view.  You are paid absurd amounts of money to play a game, and as a fan you think, "damn, if I made that kind of money, I'd bust hump every waking moment."

But if you are Shaq you've been payed so much money, that it doesn't mean anything anymore.  He has more money than he can spend.  So motivation for Shaq is different.  He is in it to win, not get paid.  He likes the spotlight, wants to be regarded as the best Center of all time, and wants to he a hero.

I agree with your sentiment that he's not a pro's pro.  He is lazy, petulant, egotistical and not the sharpest tack in the box.  He doesn't take any ownership over a situation or become a partner.  He didn't go to Riley and say what do we need to do to stay on top.  He just sat there and got disgruntled when it became clear that the team wasn't going to be competitive.

But if I'm Riley, then I know all that, and I knew it when I went out and got Shaq.  I would have figured on a 3-4 year window riding Shaq to the finals, surrounded by an All-star in Wade and a never ending supply of ex all-star role players.  The blame for Miami falling apart is with Riley, not Shaq. 

And, I'll bet if you sat down with Riley he'd tell you that Shaq stabbed him in the back by making those comments. And, I'd also bet that Riley would admit that he didn't do his job well enough or Shaq would still be in Miami and winning.

This cop out can be used for ANY sports player then Rick.   How come guys like Allen Iverson, Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett who have made millions as well continue to work hard year after year?  They've made just as much money as Shaq has.

And for the record...Miami never rode Shaq to the finals.  In fact he was 'sleeping' for most of the car ride.  Did you forget that he was out in the first two rounds and it took some stellar play by Wade to even get Miami back into the series against the Mavs?

And if he wanted the spotlight and to go down as the best center of all time don't you think the best (and maybe ONLY) way to go about that is to give it 110% each and every year on every team?  Not just when he feels like it?  If Bill Russell only played basketball when he felt like it he probably wouldn't be the best center of all time.  Ditto for Kareem.

Not to mention it's pretty hard to keep replacing pieces when 1) there wasn't an abundance of streaky 3 point shooters and solid PGs after the first title 2) They had little money to work with considering it was tied up in Wade, Shaq, and others.

Exactly how was the Laker team Shaq was on, built on the fly?  They had a core, they drafted, they acquired free agents, went after the right coach,etc.  Literally it took the Lakers 3 years before that championship team was built.  Then to keep it going they brought in older players like Glen Rice, Ron Harper, Karl Malone, and Gary Payton to try to keep it going.

I'm not defending Shaq.  I agree with you.  IMO, he's not the best Center of all time for a number of reasons, and his work ethic is certainly one of them.  He could have handled the situation much better. The only thing he should ever say about Miami is that he had a great time their and had great respect for his former coach and team-mates.

I suppose it's not fair to say the Lakers were built on the fly- they did have Shaq and Kobe for a while before they broke through, and I can't say that they didn't do any learning or growing as a team before they did. Really, they had to wait for MJ and David Robinson to retire before they were good enough, as opposed to taking it from them.

[WayOutWest]

I suppose it's not fair to say the Lakers were built on the fly- they did have Shaq and Kobe for a while before they broke through, and I can't say that they didn't do any learning or growing as a team before they did. Really, they had to wait for MJ and David Robinson to retire before they were good enough, as opposed to taking it from them.

They never faced MJ, Utah was the biggest obstacle for the Lakers durring MJ's time.  They beat the Spurs with DRob, that was the same year they spanked the Sixers in case you forgot.

[Laker Fan]

Rick"s idiocy continue to grow and expand as fast as Shaq's big worthless butt!

All you have to do is look at what Shaq is doing in Phoenix compared to what he was doing this season in Miami, he has been playing more motivated, with more intensity, and more minutes when you factor in how long he has been in Phoenix and magically "healthy" once again. Shaq is the biggest crying whiney woman the NBA has ever seen! Shaq has never been a competitor in the sense that a Kobe, an MJ, or a Kareem were, and it's why he IS NOT the most dominant ever, you don't get that title by taking whole seasons off, or by crying like a girl when a team hits a rough spot.

I agree with MSC, I have watched Riley since the days he PLAYED for the Lakers, he is as fierce a competitor as you will ever see, he has never been anything other than tuned into winning, never asked more than the best a player can give, and nothing even remotely resembling the classless whiney jerk Minnie Me paints him to be. He speaks his mind like any coach does, he drives his teams to a level of intensity it is tough to define, you leave it all on the floor or you get lost in Riles system. Seeing as I've virtually never heard ANY player but Shaq rip him like this, I suppose I am justified in saying this whole leaving Miami on bad terms, like he did in LA, like he did in Orlando, is HIS FAULT RICK!!!!!

Tell me Minnie Me, do you think before you post or are you so completely morphed into a less smart version of Reality that this is now instinctive? Tell me Minnie Me, how was a team that mortgaged their future for one ring supposed to build around Shaq's fat unearned contract? Especially after having to take out a second mortgage on their future to keep Wade. I am curious where there is ANY INDICATION WHATSOEVER that filling holes that were created by retiring stars would have satisfied Shaq and kept him motivated? He had arguably one of the greatest coaches in NBA history (I don't think so but it is a valid point of debate), THE greatest player of his era in Kobe, was surrounded by role players par excellence, Fisher, Horry, Fox, GARY PAYTON AND KARL MALONE, perhaps the greatest assemblage of pure physical talent in recent memory; not only did he NOT stay motivated, he curled up lilke a little puppy against Big Ben Wallace because he was so fat and out of shape and unmotivated he couldn't compete. And you think bringing in a "parade" of aging stars to play with an aging star and one legit young star were going to keep him motivated? And keep Miami competitive? I said when they aquired Shaq, this would end badly for Miami, I was soooo right!!! Pat Riley classless? "OK Shaq, we are not competitive, we are not going to be for the foreseeable future, we'll trade you and your huge contract to a contender so we can help both you and ourselves, hope you can help Miami, you sure as @#$% aren't doing us any good taking up 2 spots on our bench". Yeah Minnie Me, trading Shaq to a contender, re-motivating him, and letting him have another shot at a ring when he no longer cared to help your team stay at least respectable, and we'll say nothing but nice things about you even after you rip us to pieces, that is classless, Riley is such a jerk!!! Learned from the master did he Minnie Me? So Riley coached him in Orlando and LA too? When he publicly cursed out the team owner, I suppose Riley taught him that huh? You be too ignorant for words son.

[rickortreat]

You obviously didn't read or comprehend my post.  Did I applaud what Shaq did? Yes or No?

The point about his time in Miami is crap.  It didn't end badly, they WON A CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!

As I said Shaq is not the best Center of all time, far from it.  But his move to Phoenix may very well net him yet another Championship with a third team.  And the point is, he would have been glad to do it in Miami, if Riley did his job.  All he had to do was replace players who were too old to do it anymore.

The mistake LA made with Malone and Payton is that both of them were too gone by the time the Lakers picked them up.  Right idea, wrong players.  That probably annoyed Shaq more than anything, having these also-rans ride his coat-tails and not be able to carry their own weight.

In Miami, Riley did pretty much the same thing.  Very old players that couldn't cut it anymore.  No young players to work in as they developed.  Depending on an old Shaq and an injured Wade with no team around them was an absurd waste of his talent.  Not only that, but Shaq was injured and he was still hobbling when he got to Phoenix, so it's completely understandable that he wasn't doing much in Miami anyway.  There's a difference between motivation and being physically able to play.

Riley did the right thing for Shaq by giving him up.  Shaq did Riley wrong by saying anything negative about Miami.  I already wrote that, but obviously you can't understand what you read!

The real truth is that you hate Shaq ever since he left LA.  Get over it.  He's still a valuable piece in the NBA, and the Suns now have a shot at the title because they have him in the middle.

My "idiocy", coming from a dope like you who sees everything upside down, must be a compliment!

[westkoast]

Rick...Malone and Payton were not riding Shaq's coat tails at the time.  In fact he stayed on the bench for a quarter of the season that year missing long stretches at a time.  He never got into playing shape and quite frankly if Kobe didn't get it done against the Wolves, Phil didn't make the adjustment to allow Payton to stick it to Tony Parker, and Malone was not running doing an excellent job of taking pressure of Shaq in the post...they wouldn't have made the finals.  Shaq actually rode the coat tails of Kobe, Malone, and Payton that year.  Payton was one of the only players to play 90% of the season out of the big 4.  How was he riding Shaq's coat tails when Shaq wasn't playing and when he was, not at a high level consistently I have no clue.  The year before that?  Shaq was riding Kobe's coat tails as he had that blistering regular season and Shaq took half the year off (as usual).  When they needed a serious low post threat in the Spurs series he was nowhere to be found as the Spurs whipped the Lakers 4-2.

Had they won the title...if Malone was 100%, Kobe made more plays for others, and Shaq actually played like a man against an undersized center...then it would have looked like right player, right time.  Getting out hustled in the post and getting beat up on the outside made them lose, not older players.  The older players helped them in many stages of the year.  Moreso then Antonie Walker or Gary Payton did in Miami.  I think you are a bit mistaken in things you've just said.

PHX had a shot at a title before Shaq got there.  They didn't go from nobodies to contenders.  They were actually picked by many at the begging of the year to go all the way.

[rickortreat]

Thanks for the lesson Westcoast.  It seems I am mistaken.  That's what happens when you aren't looking too closely.  I didn't remember that much about that Laker team or how they played through the season.

But Phoenix, although favored by many, were a flawed team.  It's ok to be a running team, but it's not ok to be unable to play defense.  Without Shaq, they did not have a post presence and no interior defense. 

IMO, even if Shaq is as flawed as you suggest, he is still the missing piece that the Suns need.  Who knows how the seedings will play out in the West, but if the Suns went up against LA or the Spurs without Shaq they would be out of the playoffs.  Now, they have a shot.

[westkoast]

Thanks for the lesson Westcoast.  It seems I am mistaken.  That's what happens when you aren't looking too closely.  I didn't remember that much about that Laker team or how they played through the season.

But Phoenix, although favored by many, were a flawed team.  It's ok to be a running team, but it's not ok to be unable to play defense.  Without Shaq, they did not have a post presence and no interior defense. 

IMO, even if Shaq is as flawed as you suggest, he is still the missing piece that the Suns need.  Who knows how the seedings will play out in the West, but if the Suns went up against LA or the Spurs without Shaq they would be out of the playoffs.  Now, they have a shot.

I kind of figured since you don't get to watch Laker games very much or care to do so that you were basing what you were saying off a small sample.  Shaq actually was very weak those last two years he was in LA and many people were tired with him before he actually did jump ship.

His motivation, attitude,  and conditioning have always been flaws.  He however looks to be very motivated in PHX and he hasn't been there long enough to develop attitude issues.  I still don't think he is the missing piece  because he is not a good enough defender but he has helped on the glass and has allowed Amare to return to where he was at before the knee injury in terms of production.  Does that mean a champioship?  With the way the west is right now, I will say no.  Just like I say that no single team in the WC is guaranteed anything in the playoffs.  Spurs have an edge but cannot be clear favorites.  Lakers have defensive issues and injury problems.  Hornets are too inexperienced.  Dallas is soft.  PHX is experimenting.  Utah looks solid but has not exactly show dominance.  Warriors are scary as an under the radar upset but their brand of basketball will not win a championship.  Houston without Yao Ming doesn't look like they could go far either.

[msc]

Now, they have a shot.

Rick, weren't you the one that came in here and said the Suns would for sure win it all when they acquired Shaq?  

Now, you just think they have a shot?   What changed from the time they traded for him to right now?  

[WayOutWest]

Now, they have a shot.

Rick, weren't you the one that came in here and said the Suns would for sure win it all when they acquired Shaq?  

Now, you just think they have a shot?   What changed from the time they traded for him to right now?  

What makes you think that msc?

Shaq will get another title if the trade goes through.  Phoenix knows it can't just run down the lane everytime.  When half-court basketball comes, Shaq is the answer to the Suns problems. 

I imagine he's injured but playing for a contending team will make him healthy faster. 

This nullifies the advantage gained by LA with Gasol.  This gives the Suns the answer to the Mavericks and Spurs.   This puts the Suns ahead of Detroit and probably Boston.

It is a very high-risk trade if Shaq can't perform, and it does hurt the Suns for a few years afterwards, but IMO the Suns looked at what they had to go through and blinked. They just can't stay with teams that execute in the half court- no inside defensive presence. Shaq gives them a solid chance in that ares now.

[Randy]

Actually, the Lakers, IMO, were stacked after they got Shaq.  They had Nic Van Exel at PG (Derek Fisher backing him up), Eddie Jones at SG (with a rookie Kobe backing him up), Robert Horry at SF (with Cedric Ceballos as a backup), Elden Campbell at PF (with Travis Knight and Jerome Kersey back him up) and Shaq at C (with Sean Rooks as a back-up).  This was a VERY talented team -- it's just that Del Harris couldn't coach his way out of a wet paper bag.  Jerry Sloan made him look like he needed to go back to kindergarten.  The next year was even better as Rick Fox came to LA to play the SF position (allowing Horry to move to PF). 

The Lakers had great defense in 97-98 with Eddie Jones, Rick Fox, Horry, Campbell and Shaq -- the problem is that Harris just couldn't figure out a way to get Shaq and Campbell together on the court at the same time.  It would have been an awesome twin towers that I think would have been dominant in the league but Harris just couldn't get it done.  So they shipped off Campbell and Eddie Jones for Glen Rice, J.R. Reid (never liked the guy) and BJ Armstrong (who the Lakers immediately waived). 

This team, overall, was far more talented than any Laker team since Showtime (with, perhaps the exception of this year -- I think the Lakers are more talented now given the bench strength).  It ALWAYS killed me to think that Harris couldn't get Campbell and Shaq out of the court on the same time -- this made the Lakers an INCREDIBLE defensive team and a very strong offensive team.  PJ would have done awesome things with that Laker line-up.

[JoMal]

Actually, the Lakers, IMO, were stacked after they got Shaq.  They had Nic Van Exel at PG (Derek Fisher backing him up), Eddie Jones at SG (with a rookie Kobe backing him up), Robert Horry at SF (with Cedric Ceballos as a backup), Elden Campbell at PF (with Travis Knight and Jerome Kersey back him up) and Shaq at C (with Sean Rooks as a back-up).  This was a VERY talented team -- it's just that Del Harris couldn't coach his way out of a wet paper bag.  Jerry Sloan made him look like he needed to go back to kindergarten.  The next year was even better as Rick Fox came to LA to play the SF position (allowing Horry to move to PF). 

The Lakers had great defense in 97-98 with Eddie Jones, Rick Fox, Horry, Campbell and Shaq -- the problem is that Harris just couldn't figure out a way to get Shaq and Campbell together on the court at the same time.  It would have been an awesome twin towers that I think would have been dominant in the league but Harris just couldn't get it done.  So they shipped off Campbell and Eddie Jones for Glen Rice, J.R. Reid (never liked the guy) and BJ Armstrong (who the Lakers immediately waived). 

This team, overall, was far more talented than any Laker team since Showtime (with, perhaps the exception of this year -- I think the Lakers are more talented now given the bench strength).  It ALWAYS killed me to think that Harris couldn't get Campbell and Shaq out of the court on the same time -- this made the Lakers an INCREDIBLE defensive team and a very strong offensive team.  PJ would have done awesome things with that Laker line-up.

And just where did the ref and League bias come into play back then to ensure the Lakers never were seriously challenged?

[Laker Fan]

The mistake LA made with Malone and Payton is that both of them were too gone by the time the Lakers picked them up.  Right idea, wrong players.  That probably annoyed Shaq more than anything, having these also-rans ride his coat-tails and not be able to carry their own weight.
The real truth is that you hate Shaq ever since he left LA.  Get over it.  He's still a valuable piece in the NBA, and the Suns now have a shot at the title because they have him in the middle.

My "idiocy", coming from a dope like you who sees everything upside down, must be a compliment!

Umm, Payton won a ring with Shaq in Miami, was he an also-ran irritating Shaq because he was riding his coat tails and not pulling his weight at that time or just when he was in LA? You might even say Mourning was "riding Shaq's coat tails" as well. One problem though, SHAQ RODE THEIR COAT TAILS TO ANOTHER RING!!!!!

As far as your idiocy is concerned Minnie Me, you get it from thinking Reality agreeing with you means you know what your talking about. Real fans know better.

[Randy]

Actually, the Lakers, IMO, were stacked after they got Shaq.  They had Nic Van Exel at PG (Derek Fisher backing him up), Eddie Jones at SG (with a rookie Kobe backing him up), Robert Horry at SF (with Cedric Ceballos as a backup), Elden Campbell at PF (with Travis Knight and Jerome Kersey back him up) and Shaq at C (with Sean Rooks as a back-up).  This was a VERY talented team -- it's just that Del Harris couldn't coach his way out of a wet paper bag.  Jerry Sloan made him look like he needed to go back to kindergarten.  The next year was even better as Rick Fox came to LA to play the SF position (allowing Horry to move to PF). 

The Lakers had great defense in 97-98 with Eddie Jones, Rick Fox, Horry, Campbell and Shaq -- the problem is that Harris just couldn't figure out a way to get Shaq and Campbell together on the court at the same time.  It would have been an awesome twin towers that I think would have been dominant in the league but Harris just couldn't get it done.  So they shipped off Campbell and Eddie Jones for Glen Rice, J.R. Reid (never liked the guy) and BJ Armstrong (who the Lakers immediately waived). 

This team, overall, was far more talented than any Laker team since Showtime (with, perhaps the exception of this year -- I think the Lakers are more talented now given the bench strength).  It ALWAYS killed me to think that Harris couldn't get Campbell and Shaq out of the court on the same time -- this made the Lakers an INCREDIBLE defensive team and a very strong offensive team.  PJ would have done awesome things with that Laker line-up.

And just where did the ref and League bias come into play back then to ensure the Lakers never were seriously challenged?

The league was forced to address the injustice done to the Lakers in game #3.    Next question?

[jn]

For me, the bottom line here is he took the time out to rip Chris Quinn, which is an unbelievably petty, childish act.  Early in his career Shaq was referred to as "man child".  Ironically it seems that as he has grown older the latter half of that description is more accurate.

[WayOutWest]

For me, the bottom line here is he took the time out to rip Chris Quinn, which is an unbelievably petty, childish act.  Early in his career Shaq was referred to as "man child".  Ironically it seems that as he has grown older the latter half of that description is more accurate.

Shaq is comming off like a huge a-hole.