Is Houston really worse without Yao?

[ziggy]

I did answer the question -- as clearly as I possibly could -- I say that the Rockets will be as good WITHOUT Yao as they were with him -- you say otherwise.  Who is wrong?  At this point, it's hard to believe you are right since the Rockets are winning convincingly and are 4-0 without Yao. 

So, ONE more time -- hopefully clear enough for even you to understand:

Will the impact of the loss of Yao be comparable to the loss of other all-stars, on other teams?

No, Yao's loss will not hurt the Rockets like it would hurt ANY of the other players missing from their respective teams.  The Rockets are STILL one and done in the playoffs with or without Yao but they continue to win like they were winning this year during the regular season.

Is that clear enough for you?

So going 4-0, AT HOME, against Washington, Memphis, Denver, and Indiana, none of whom are playoff teams presently, who have combined 42% winning %, and are winning just 37% in their last 10 games is proof positive that Houston is better with out Yao?  Gotcha!!

Talk to me after the week of March 17, and lets see how they do in that 5 game stretch.

[Randy]

Hmm, I believe that was my original proposition but you rejected that.  In fact, isn't it the ONLY way to determine who is correct?  You posting it, certainly doesn't make it fact (you did realize that, didn't you?).

[ziggy]

Hmm, I believe that was my original proposition but you rejected that.  In fact, isn't it the ONLY way to determine who is correct?  You posting it, certainly doesn't make it fact (you did realize that, didn't you?).

I am not asserting any facts there buddy, just paraphrasing you to make sure we have no confusion. 

Now based upon your statement, you are asserting that Houston going 4-0 at home against Memphis, Washington, Denver, and Indiana without Yao is proof positive that Houston is a better team without Yao than they are with Yao. 

Now I will offer my comments
1.) Now just so we have no confusion here Randy, your posting that doesn't make it true.
2.) That is just a plain stupid assertion.  Going 4-0 at home against those teams means nothing and it proves nothing about the relative impact of Yao on the Houston Rockets.  You are much smarter than that.

[JoMal]

Hmm, I believe that was my original proposition but you rejected that.  In fact, isn't it the ONLY way to determine who is correct?  You posting it, certainly doesn't make it fact (you did realize that, didn't you?).

I am not asserting any facts there buddy, just paraphrasing you to make sure we have no confusion. 

Now based upon your statement, you are asserting that Houston going 4-0 at home against Memphis, Washington, Denver, and Indiana without Yao is proof positive that Houston is a better team without Yao than they are with Yao. 

Now I will offer my comments
1.) Now just so we have no confusion here Randy, your posting that doesn't make it true.
2.) That is just a plain stupid assertion.  Going 4-0 at home against those teams means nothing and it proves nothing about the relative impact of Yao on the Houston Rockets.  You are much smarter than that.

       

Give it up, ziggy. The doorknob won't get it.

[ziggy]

Hmm, I believe that was my original proposition but you rejected that.  In fact, isn't it the ONLY way to determine who is correct?  You posting it, certainly doesn't make it fact (you did realize that, didn't you?).

I am not asserting any facts there buddy, just paraphrasing you to make sure we have no confusion. 

Now based upon your statement, you are asserting that Houston going 4-0 at home against Memphis, Washington, Denver, and Indiana without Yao is proof positive that Houston is a better team without Yao than they are with Yao. 

Now I will offer my comments
1.) Now just so we have no confusion here Randy, your posting that doesn't make it true.
2.) That is just a plain stupid assertion.  Going 4-0 at home against those teams means nothing and it proves nothing about the relative impact of Yao on the Houston Rockets.  You are much smarter than that.

       

Give it up, ziggy. The doorknob won't get it.

LOL Jomal.  I was just about to ask for you, Derek, Joe, and Skandery to weigh on this, just to clear the air.

[JoMal]

Hmm, I believe that was my original proposition but you rejected that.  In fact, isn't it the ONLY way to determine who is correct?  You posting it, certainly doesn't make it fact (you did realize that, didn't you?).

I am not asserting any facts there buddy, just paraphrasing you to make sure we have no confusion. 

Now based upon your statement, you are asserting that Houston going 4-0 at home against Memphis, Washington, Denver, and Indiana without Yao is proof positive that Houston is a better team without Yao than they are with Yao. 

Now I will offer my comments
1.) Now just so we have no confusion here Randy, your posting that doesn't make it true.
2.) That is just a plain stupid assertion.  Going 4-0 at home against those teams means nothing and it proves nothing about the relative impact of Yao on the Houston Rockets.  You are much smarter than that.

       

Give it up, ziggy. The doorknob won't get it.

LOL Jomal.  I was just about to ask for you, Derek, Joe, and Skandery to weigh on this, just to clear the air.

You know, I would, except you start to see how the arguement is going and you feel they are going to suck you down to whatever place it is where they missed the point to begin with. Some sort of purgatory cursed on them from transgressions they had in another life, perhaps.

[Randy]

Hmm, I believe that was my original proposition but you rejected that.  In fact, isn't it the ONLY way to determine who is correct?  You posting it, certainly doesn't make it fact (you did realize that, didn't you?).

I am not asserting any facts there buddy, just paraphrasing you to make sure we have no confusion. 

Now based upon your statement, you are asserting that Houston going 4-0 at home against Memphis, Washington, Denver, and Indiana without Yao is proof positive that Houston is a better team without Yao than they are with Yao. 

Now I will offer my comments
1.) Now just so we have no confusion here Randy, your posting that doesn't make it true.
2.) That is just a plain stupid assertion.  Going 4-0 at home against those teams means nothing and it proves nothing about the relative impact of Yao on the Houston Rockets.  You are much smarter than that.

Okay, ziggy, where did I say that the fact that they are 4-0 against those four teams is proof -- I don't think you are going to find that.  I do think that the strong win against Denver, at home or not, can be an indicator -- but of course, I don't expect you to give any nods of approval at this point. 

"Going 4-0 at home against those teams means nothing"

Well, obviously it means more than nothing -- I never asserted in my post that it was quite meaningful -- simply a good start.  I do believe beating the Nuggets soundly is somewhat of an indicator but there are better ones to come and I would never make an assessment based on one game and 3 pretty meaningless ones.  It is quite interesting, don't you think -- that the Rockets beat the Nuggets at home at about the same point spread without Yao that they did with him.  They also lost on the road to the Nuggets in OT on the road.  Again, nothing to make an assessment on but it SHOULD cause someone to stop and give some consideration.

It's hilarious that you continue to try and point out where I'm not reading correctly and then ignore your lack of reading comprehension.  Let's get back to my ORIGINAL statement -- something that you OBVIOUSLY have tried to twist in such a way that would make Reality proud:

I realize that many are saying that Yao being out lessened the chances of Houston being a contender -- I guess I'm just not sure that I think it's the case.  I really don't think that the Rockets had a chance WITH Yao. 

I'm not trying to say that I think that Houston is better without Yao -- I just don't think they are as bad as what everyone says.

Try reading that slowly -- I'd draw you a picture but I don't know how to color on here -- perhaps Derek can look into that for me.  Where did I say that Houston was BETTER without Yao -- I said that I think that Houston could be better with ANOTHER center who moves better with and without the ball than Yao does.  Based on the way you are reading my posts -- I can conclude that you believe that the Rockets are junk without Yao.  I LIKE the way that the Rockets are moving the ball without Yao -- and I think that they aren't going to be nearly as bad without Yao as many, obviously you, think they are.  Only time will tell who is right.

LOL Jomal.  I was just about to ask for you, Derek, Joe, and Skandery to weigh on this, just to clear the air.

Yep, glad you are asking JoMal about bball insights -- he just figured out the the Kings aren't a very good team! 

[ziggy]

You stated
1.)  Yao is not a superstar
2.)  Yao is overrated
3.)  Yao and McGrady don't work well together
4.)  Houston will be better with Yao out
[/color]

I'm glad you reposted my thoughts -- it was a great opportunity for me to reread them and say "yes, yes, yes, yes" (was that your purpose?). 

Does this clear it up for you Randy? 
Just to go over it again. 

I paraphrased you with
Houston will be better with Yao out

and you responded with a
YES

I also paraphrased your comments as follows

So going 4-0, AT HOME, against Washington, Memphis, Denver, and Indiana, none of whom are playoff teams presently, who have combined 42% winning %, and are winning just 37% in their last 10 games is proof positive that Houston is better with out Yao?

And you responded with

Hmm, I believe that was my original proposition but you rejected that.  In fact, isn't it the ONLY way to determine who is correct?

So the next time you want to accuse me of not understanding your posts, make sure you go back and reread what you actually posted.

[westkoast]

So what's the criteria for being right or wrong about Yao's worth to the franchise?  If they continue to win games and make the playoffs does that mean he is not quite as important as most of us are thinking?

[WayOutWest]

You stated
1.)  Yao is not a superstar
2.)  Yao is overrated
3.)  Yao and McGrady don't work well together
4.)  Houston will be better with Yao out
[/color]

I'm glad you reposted my thoughts -- it was a great opportunity for me to reread them and say "yes, yes, yes, yes" (was that your purpose?). 

Does this clear it up for you Randy? 
Just to go over it again. 

I paraphrased you with
Houston will be better with Yao out

and you responded with a
YES

I also paraphrased your comments as follows

So going 4-0, AT HOME, against Washington, Memphis, Denver, and Indiana, none of whom are playoff teams presently, who have combined 42% winning %, and are winning just 37% in their last 10 games is proof positive that Houston is better with out Yao?

And you responded with

Hmm, I believe that was my original proposition but you rejected that.  In fact, isn't it the ONLY way to determine who is correct?

So the next time you want to accuse me of not understanding your posts, make sure you go back and reread what you actually posted.

YIKES!  Ziggy is owed a receipt!

[JoMal]

So what's the criteria for being right or wrong about Yao's worth to the franchise?  If they continue to win games and make the playoffs does that mean he is not quite as important as most of us are thinking?

It probably means that we should wait and see how Houston plays against tougher teams then they have played in the last week or so. At Dallas tonight and the Hornets in the Crescent City on Saturday will be truer tests. If they do well there, and from his Sacramento days, Adelman seems to have a gift for winning games even with his best talent out, then we probably can expect the Rockets to crack the top four in the west, at which point things might get interesting amongst the Lakers, Spurs, Jazz, and Suns, as one of them will be left out. As will the Mavs. Unexpected.

[westkoast]

So what's the criteria for being right or wrong about Yao's worth to the franchise?  If they continue to win games and make the playoffs does that mean he is not quite as important as most of us are thinking?

It probably means that we should wait and see how Houston plays against tougher teams then they have played in the last week or so. At Dallas tonight and the Hornets in the Crescent City on Saturday will be truer tests. If they do well there, and from his Sacramento days, Adelman seems to have a gift for winning games even with his best talent out, then we probably can expect the Rockets to crack the top four in the west, at which point things might get interesting amongst the Lakers, Spurs, Jazz, and Suns, as one of them will be left out. As will the Mavs. Unexpected.

I guess I should have been more clear...Is it just making the playoffs?  Or will they have to get out of the first round?  They easily could get a top seed in the West and get bounced by say Utah, LA, PHX, Dallas or any of the other teams who could shift into a lower speed by making a few game skid.

[WayOutWest]

I guess I should have been more clear...Is it just making the playoffs?  Or will they have to get out of the first round?  They easily could get a top seed in the West and get bounced by say Utah, LA, PHX, Dallas or any of the other teams who could shift into a lower speed by making a few game skid.

If the Rockets finish 6th or higher I am going to have to give the "Yao ain't all that" thought line a hard look.  It doesn't matter what they do in the playoffs to me as long as they finish 6th or higer in the regular season BUT if they get out of the first round I will jump into the "Yao ain't all that" head first.

Of course other teams should remain relatively healthy for the 6th or better criteria, since IMO any team, Rockets included, should suffer a dramatic drop off when their "big gun" goes down this late in the season .

[Reality]

Btw Randolph,
Lewie Scola chipped in with another 12/9 and solid team D in his role with the Rockets.
Much as you scoffed at Fabs role with the Champion Spurs only to see Fabs hoist the trophy, beholden Lewie Scola.

Who by the way, began his starting role with the Rockets at the beggining of their 18 game win streak.

[Randy]

You stated
1.)  Yao is not a superstar
2.)  Yao is overrated
3.)  Yao and McGrady don't work well together
4.)  Houston will be better with Yao out
[/color]

I'm glad you reposted my thoughts -- it was a great opportunity for me to reread them and say "yes, yes, yes, yes" (was that your purpose?). 

Does this clear it up for you Randy? 
Just to go over it again. 

I paraphrased you with
Houston will be better with Yao out

and you responded with a
YES

I also paraphrased your comments as follows

So going 4-0, AT HOME, against Washington, Memphis, Denver, and Indiana, none of whom are playoff teams presently, who have combined 42% winning %, and are winning just 37% in their last 10 games is proof positive that Houston is better with out Yao?

And you responded with

Hmm, I believe that was my original proposition but you rejected that.  In fact, isn't it the ONLY way to determine who is correct?

So the next time you want to accuse me of not understanding your posts, make sure you go back and reread what you actually posted.

Man, ziggy, go back and read ALL the posts -- not just what you want to read.  I DO believe that Houston would be better without Yao -- I believe, as I posted at the BEGINNING, that they should TRADE Yao for a center who could work well without the ball.  I NEVER said that I believe that the Houston Rockets AS THEY ARE would be a better team without Yao.  As I stated AT THE VERY BEGINNING -- I believed that Houston wouldn't be ANY WORSE without Yao -- and I believe they would be MUCH BETTER with a different center (than with Yao). 

You turned this into a pissing match -- I never intended to make the claim that the Rockets would be better with their current squad than they were without Yao -- only as I stated (quite clearly) at the very beginning that a TRADE (for Yao) would make them better.

As I stated before -- I don't believe Houston would have gotten out of the first round WITH Yao -- I believe that Houston (without Yao) will have the same fate.  However, I DO believe, if Houston could make a trade (Dwight Howard, perhaps Greg Oden, etc.) that Houston would move up to challenging the Jazz and perhaps even the Lakers and Spurs in the Western Conference.

Maybe you thought the Rockets would beat the Wizards and Grizzlies after Yao went down. But, admit it. You thought they would lose to the Nuggets on Sunday. Well, you forgot about the Rockets' defense, which has a ridiculously good 92.1 rating in the three Yao-less games.

This doesn't include the game last night against the Mavs (and while the Rockets pulled out that win by dominating in the 4th quarter -- the Mavs were without Dirk so that game doesn't provide clarity -- however, the Rockets are 5-0 without Yao and are playing great defense without him as well.  Wouldn't even you begin to say "hmmm?"