Suns looking good with Shaq so far.

[Randy]

I'm sure we've discussed this before but I STILL don't understand Phoenix's decisions lately.  They decided to give away draft picks and then, because of supposed money issues, they gave away their ONLY interior defense in Kurt Thomas -- just gave him away!  Then they decide that they can't be inferior in the middle so they trade their best defender, best finisher and a great three point shooter for a guy who is past his prime and can't run the floor (so therefore doesn't fit into their system).  And the Suns paid a TON more money in the next two years to pull the trade.  If they were going to go this far over the cap -- then why didn't they just keep Thomas -- he is a MUCH better fit for the Suns.  He can defend in the post, rebound the basketball and knock down an 18' shot -- which helps the Suns because it keeps the opposing teams from planting their center in the middle for help defense.  Thomas helped spread the floor and he gave Nash and Amare more room to operate.

I just don't understand what Phoenix is doing:
  1) giving away Thomas because of supposed money
  2) trading Marion because they didn't want to resign him for what he is worth
  3) taking Shaq (and the only thing bigger than Shaq is his contract) to turn their team around.

These moves just don't make any sense.  Is Kerr trying to show people how to dismantle a team?  The NBA doesn't need that -- they already have Isaiah Thomas.

[Lurker]

And the Suns paid a TON more money in the next two years to pull the trade. 

Except for this fallacy you are right on.  Marion and Banks make MORE money than Shaq.  And if Marion is extended anywhere near the money he is currently making (and deeply believes he deserves) then the Suns have SAVED money on Shaq's contract.

[Laker Fan]

And the Suns paid a TON more money in the next two years to pull the trade. 

Except for this fallacy you are right on.  Marion and Banks make MORE money than Shaq.  And if Marion is extended anywhere near the money he is currently making (and deeply believes he deserves) then the Suns have SAVED money on Shaq's contract.

That may be true but saving money wasn't the goal, winning this year was, and their decisions and moves get all the more nebulous just based on that criterea alone. Does Marion deserve what he wanted? Probably not, but he certainly wouldn't have them at 4-6 over their last 10, and they would still be scaring teams with the intensity of their offense and their record since the break, that sure isn't happening now.

[Lurker]

And the Suns paid a TON more money in the next two years to pull the trade. 

Except for this fallacy you are right on.  Marion and Banks make MORE money than Shaq.  And if Marion is extended anywhere near the money he is currently making (and deeply believes he deserves) then the Suns have SAVED money on Shaq's contract.

That may be true but saving money wasn't the goal, winning this year was, and their decisions and moves get all the more nebulous just based on that criterea alone. Does Marion deserve what he wanted? Probably not, but he certainly wouldn't have them at 4-6 over their last 10, and they would still be scaring teams with the intensity of their offense and their record since the break, that sure isn't happening now.

I agree Dan.  That is why I said EXCEPT for that one fallacy I agreed with Randy. <shudder>

The Suns made a dumb basketball move and money was not the motivation.  But at the same time to claim that paying Shaq is a negative is not true.  They would be paying the same amount of money either way...it is just that Marion would give them better production for those dollars.

[WayOutWest]

  1) giving away Thomas because of supposed money
  2) trading Marion because they didn't want to resign him for what he is worth
  3) taking Shaq (and the only thing bigger than Shaq is his contract) to turn their team around.

1) Losing money on Thomas vs losing money on Shaq is a major difference.  Thomas was not going to bring the POSITIVES that Shaq would and has been giving the Suns, mainly rebounding and attitude.  The reverse is Thomas probably would not have brought the NEGATIVES that Shaq has brought.  I know most of us called it from day one, I didn't think Shaq's negatives would so out weigh positives but there is still time to turn it around for the Suns, especially in the playoffs.

2) That is not why they traded him, way off base on that one Randy.  First, they could just let him walk after next year, no big deal moneywise there.  Second, they did not feel they could win it all with Marion.  Third, and this is what SUPPOSEDLY was the key factor, he was not happy playing on the Suns.  He was battling with Amare in the locker room and the Suns wisely chose to put their money on Amare.

3)That turned out to be true, unfortunately they turned around and started losing.  But from the outside looking in, Shaq and his history looked great on paper.  Like I stated in 1), we all saw the negatives, most of the posters around here stated that the negatives would far out weigh the positives, so far you guys have been correct.  I have seen the positives I expected but the negatives have been far more prevelant.  There is still a chance IMO for them to turn it around for the playoffs but like the article that WK posted, they may not even make it to the playoffs in order to provide the results of the Shaq experiment.

[Randy]

  1) giving away Thomas because of supposed money
  2) trading Marion because they didn't want to resign him for what he is worth
  3) taking Shaq (and the only thing bigger than Shaq is his contract) to turn their team around.

1) Losing money on Thomas vs losing money on Shaq is a major difference.  Thomas was not going to bring the POSITIVES that Shaq would and has been giving the Suns, mainly rebounding and attitude.  The reverse is Thomas probably would not have brought the NEGATIVES that Shaq has brought.  I know most of us called it from day one, I didn't think Shaq's negatives would so out weigh positives but there is still time to turn it around for the Suns, especially in the playoffs.

2) That is not why they traded him, way off base on that one Randy.  First, they could just let him walk after next year, no big deal moneywise there.  Second, they did not feel they could win it all with Marion.  Third, and this is what SUPPOSEDLY was the key factor, he was not happy playing on the Suns.  He was battling with Amare in the locker room and the Suns wisely chose to put their money on Amare.

3)That turned out to be true, unfortunately they turned around and started losing.  But from the outside looking in, Shaq and his history looked great on paper.  Like I stated in 1), we all saw the negatives, most of the posters around here stated that the negatives would far out weigh the positives, so far you guys have been correct.  I have seen the positives I expected but the negatives have been far more prevelant.  There is still a chance IMO for them to turn it around for the playoffs but like the article that WK posted, they may not even make it to the playoffs in order to provide the results of the Shaq experiment.

I didn't read too many people out there (other than Sun fans) who really thought this was a good trade.  Simply putting Shaq in the middle of the post when you aren't going through the post is a HORRENDOUS game plan.  This is the biggest reason that I am clueless why they made this trade.  He is the antithesis of the Suns offense.

[westkoast]

  1) giving away Thomas because of supposed money
  2) trading Marion because they didn't want to resign him for what he is worth
  3) taking Shaq (and the only thing bigger than Shaq is his contract) to turn their team around.

1) Losing money on Thomas vs losing money on Shaq is a major difference.  Thomas was not going to bring the POSITIVES that Shaq would and has been giving the Suns, mainly rebounding and attitude.  The reverse is Thomas probably would not have brought the NEGATIVES that Shaq has brought.  I know most of us called it from day one, I didn't think Shaq's negatives would so out weigh positives but there is still time to turn it around for the Suns, especially in the playoffs.

2) That is not why they traded him, way off base on that one Randy.  First, they could just let him walk after next year, no big deal moneywise there.  Second, they did not feel they could win it all with Marion.  Third, and this is what SUPPOSEDLY was the key factor, he was not happy playing on the Suns.  He was battling with Amare in the locker room and the Suns wisely chose to put their money on Amare.

3)That turned out to be true, unfortunately they turned around and started losing.  But from the outside looking in, Shaq and his history looked great on paper.  Like I stated in 1), we all saw the negatives, most of the posters around here stated that the negatives would far out weigh the positives, so far you guys have been correct.  I have seen the positives I expected but the negatives have been far more prevelant.  There is still a chance IMO for them to turn it around for the playoffs but like the article that WK posted, they may not even make it to the playoffs in order to provide the results of the Shaq experiment.

Either way it wouldn't have mattered if Marion was going to go.  They wanted to go "All-In" for this year knowing the window is closing fast.  So even if Marion stayed around for just one more year why would they care?  Instead they let Marion walk half way through the season and have a chance at getting bounced in the first round if they continue to lose 4 out of 5 games AT HOME.   They still have a chance to keep themselves afloat but to many other teams are surging right now for PHX to just get it going for a long string of games that would boost them back up to the top.   

If the Suns miss the playoffs this is going to go down as the worst trade of all time.  Even worse then Kwame Brown for Pau Gasol lol

[Randy]

Well, the Suns can't beat anyone EXCEPT the Spurs.  Anyone thinking the Suns are going to start maneuvering to try and get the Spurs in the first round.  They may have found the one team that they can actually beat!