Are the Spurs really that old?

[Lurker]

The common thought is that the Spurs are slowing and too old.  Duncan will turn 32 at the start of the playoffs.  Manu will be 31 in the summer.

However to actually look at the ages of some contenders is interesting...

Mavs:  Dirk is 30, Terry 31, Dampier 33, Stackhouse 34, Kidd 158 (j/k)
Nuggets: K-Mart 31, Iverson 33, Camby 34
Suns: Bell 32, Nash 34, Shaq 36

Pistons: Billups 32, Hamiton 30, Rasheed 34, McDyess 34
Celtics: KG 32 (Duncan is old but Garnett isn't?), Pierce 31, Allen 33

[westkoast]

They really are that old.  Just because some of the other squad has some old players doesn't mean the Spurs are not getting old.  It means the other team has old players as well.  Detroit is old.  Only reason they are not brought up as much as the Spurs is because SA is a better team with more coverage.

The other thing to is that the Spurs players have more miles on them then other players.  Stackhouse may be 34 but he never plays.  Jason Kidd is 36 but he hasn't been on a squad that has been deep in the playoffs the last 6 years with 4 titles.  K Mart is 31 but hasn't played a full season in years and the Nuggets are not a deep playoff team.  On the reverse Horry and Bowen, their two oldest guys, have played boat loads of playoff games between them. The Spurs have played more basketball as a unit then any other team over the last 6-7 years. 

[rickortreat]

It's not Duncan that I'm worried about, when I think about the Spurs age.  And it isn't Manu either.  It's Horry and Finley and Bowen also Barry, but he was traded, now they have Kurt Thomas, who is now in his 13th season.

How many more years do Horry, Finley and Bowen have?  These are critical role players for the Spurs and what gives them the depth to compete. The Spurs advantage is fairly slim, and these players are the difference. 

[Lurker]

So I guess Kobe is old also...

Duncan   932 career games and 35,169 minutes
Garnett  1,017 games  39,027 minutes
Kobe       969 games  35,518 minutes

[westkoast]

So I guess Kobe is old also...

Duncan   932 career games and 35,169 minutes
Garnett  1,017 games  39,027 minutes
Kobe       969 games  35,518 minutes

Lurker its not just amount of games = old...you have to factor in the players actual age.  Although I will say Kobe is an OLD 29.  However 29 and 33 is a big jump in this league.  Most players go from prime at 29 to retirement at 33-34.  Also as you know (obviously) the toll a big man takes compared to a perimeter player leaves a gap as well.

[Lurker]

How many more years do Horry, Finley and Bowen have?  These are critical role players for the Spurs and what gives them the depth to compete. The Spurs advantage is fairly slim, and these players are the difference. 

We only need them to produce one or two more years.  Then plug in someone else.  Udoka for Bowen.  Bonner for Horry.   And I would rather have playoff tested vets who I know can hit shots under pressure as my role players than youngsters who have never been in a 7 game series.  It may be a slim advantage but in the waning moments of a tight series it can be the difference between fishing or not.  Look at what Fisher has brought to the Lakers...

[Lurker]

So I guess Kobe is old also...

Duncan   932 career games and 35,169 minutes
Garnett  1,017 games  39,027 minutes
Kobe       969 games  35,518 minutes

Lurker its not just amount of games = old...you have to factor in the players actual age.  Although I will say Kobe is an OLD 29.  However 29 and 33 is a big jump in this league.  Most players go from prime at 29 to retirement at 33-34.

Yes 4 years can mean a lot but then Kobe is only 2 years younger than Duncan so it isn't as big a difference.

[westkoast]

So I guess Kobe is old also...

Duncan   932 career games and 35,169 minutes
Garnett  1,017 games  39,027 minutes
Kobe       969 games  35,518 minutes

Lurker its not just amount of games = old...you have to factor in the players actual age.  Although I will say Kobe is an OLD 29.  However 29 and 33 is a big jump in this league.  Most players go from prime at 29 to retirement at 33-34.

Yes 4 years can mean a lot but then Kobe is only 2 years younger than Duncan so it isn't as big a difference.

2 years and some change I stand corrected.  They may be close in age but being a big man furthers that gap.

Fisher is a great example of an older player coming in and contributing quite a bit.  I'm not saying send Horry to the glue factory, keeping those kind of guys around for guidance alone is well worth the money they would pay, im talking about minutes on the floor in regards to Bowen/Horry/Thomas.

[Reality]

Yes koast the age is a concern for the Spurs, but they are addressing it.  To what degree can be debated but here and now the cap space for 2010 is looking great.  Meanwhile the next two years for Spurs may look old but are they really?

As Lurker mentioned there are two Spurs bigs 6.10-11 and 7.0 that have been in the Spurs system for a few years now and are projected to enter the NBA next year.

Now I'm not saying they are going to be the next Fabs and hold down 30 minutes per game in a Finals sweep.  But they are generally thought of as solid if not spectacular.  And one is and NBDL All Star.

Lurker, Bonner becoming Horry i am not comfortable with.  However, the Spurs see him at practice more then i do so who knows what he does once he gets guaranteed minutes?  Ime becoming Bruce I agree, down with that 100%.

[Lurker]

Fisher is a great example of an older player coming in and contributing quite a bit.  I'm not saying send Horry to the glue factory, keeping those kind of guys around for guidance alone is well worth the money they would pay, im talking about minutes on the floor in regards to Bowen/Horry/Thomas.

Last year playoffs:
Bowen 34 min - Udoka will take some of those minutes. Bowen has played same in reg season: about 30
Horry 20 min - averaging 12 min this year but up over the last 10 games.  Thomas will take some
Elson 11 min - 100% to Thomas
Barry 11 min - Udoka/Stoudemire will soak up

Thomas for Suns 19 minutes - takes 11 from Elson, 4-5 from Horry and still plays less than last year.

Heavy lifting will be by the big 3...the role players will get minutes based on matchups.

Starting Fabs/Duncan/Bowen/Finley/Parker with this bench:

Thomas/Horry/Udoka/Manu/Vaughan/Stoudemire - Manu will average 30 minutes and Udoka around 20.  The others 15-18 tops.  PGs even less as Parker will play 35-38 minutes.

240 minutes per game...
Duncan   35
Parker     35
Manu      30
Bowen     30
Finley      25
Fabs       25
Udoka     20
Thomas   18
Horry      12
PG          10


I don't see a big problem.  It's not like the Spurs are counting on their old guys to carry the team.

[Lurker]

Lurker, Bonner becoming Horry i am not comfortable with.  However, the Spurs see him at practice more then i do so who knows what he does once he gets guaranteed minutes?  Ime becoming Bruce I agree, down with that 100%.

I wouldn't say Bonner will become Horry.  But his game is similar.  Hits the boards (Horry is underrated in the dept), can step back and hit the 3, hustles on defense, moves the ball well (Horry is the better passer) and generally seems to be in the right place at the right time..  Only downside I see to Bonner's game is that he likes to shoot.  Almost a black hole at times which isn't good considering that the Spurs have plenty of other scorers. 

But then we are talking about role players not stars...

[westkoast]

Fisher is a great example of an older player coming in and contributing quite a bit.  I'm not saying send Horry to the glue factory, keeping those kind of guys around for guidance alone is well worth the money they would pay, im talking about minutes on the floor in regards to Bowen/Horry/Thomas.

Last year playoffs:
Bowen 34 min - Udoka will take some of those minutes. Bowen has played same in reg season: about 30
Horry 20 min - averaging 12 min this year but up over the last 10 games.  Thomas will take some
Elson 11 min - 100% to Thomas
Barry 11 min - Udoka/Stoudemire will soak up

Thomas for Suns 19 minutes - takes 11 from Elson, 4-5 from Horry and still plays less than last year.

Heavy lifting will be by the big 3...the role players will get minutes based on matchups.

Starting Fabs/Duncan/Bowen/Finley/Parker with this bench:

Thomas/Horry/Udoka/Manu/Vaughan/Stoudemire - Manu will average 30 minutes and Udoka around 20.  The others 15-18 tops.  PGs even less as Parker will play 35-38 minutes.

240 minutes per game...
Duncan   35
Parker     35
Manu      30
Bowen     30
Finley      25
Fabs       25
Udoka     20
Thomas   18
Horry      12
PG          10


I don't see a big problem.  It's not like the Spurs are counting on their old guys to carry the team.

Oh I know that.  I said earlier this month that I don't think the Spurs are super old to the point where they are going to break hips on the way to the playoffs this year. Just for the future.  Ive got the utmost faith in the Spurs front office they've done an excellent job for years now.

[JoMal]

Truth be told, and I have some experience on this, you can become "old" overnight, or it seems like it. You can tell in the legs. One day, that springy first step is more of an anvil shove. While most of the players listed above are in their early thirties, some of them, not all, are going to start looking slow. It is why GM's are always harping on getting younger. It is why they are also always talking about having to win NOW, as many of these guys get quoted as saying right after they make a mega-trade.

The NBA is a young man's game, and it is always interesting in watching how players like Jason Kidd and Grant Hill learn to compensate for their aging bodies. With big men, it is different, since few have the Garnett/Duncan gifts of speed AND size. They lose speed, who notices? But the PG, SG, and SF's out there who rely on speed can burn out big time.     

[rickortreat]

In truth most of the better teams are filled with players who are at or past their prime.  In two years, will the Suns still have Nash at 38?!?

The window is starting to close for a lot of these teams.  Their shot is this year and next, and that's about it.  Of course, they can all continue to play for as long as they're effective, but this is the kind of thing you don't find out about until the playoffs.

Teams like Utah and LA have a much brighter future right now, than a team like the Spurs that will be forced to continually replace high-quality role players with others from around the league.  Duncan is still a premier big man, and with Parker and Ginobli, they should be able to attract some talent, but ex all-starts like Finley are hard to come by.  Expecting Spurs late round draft picks to come in and take over for some of these players isn't realistic. These players are veterans, experienced and pressure tested.  The new ones aren't anything yet.

The play of the role players becomes magnified in the playoffs.  Few teams have the luxury of great depth, and this is one of the Spurs biggest advantages.  If those vets start to drop off, the Spurs will have trouble repeating.

[Skandery]

Truth be told, and I have some experience on this, you can become "old" overnight, or it seems like it.

Then again, it seemed you and westkoast were ready to bury Brad Miller and give the eulogy last year.  Look at what has happened with him this year.  Some players can surprise.