The rest of January

[Laker Fan]

I know we almost NEVER talk Lakers here so I would like change that up from all the Trailblazer talk (congrats Ziggy on your teams inspired play of late) and pose this question to real fans that will objectively give an opinion; how do you think the Lakers will fare over the rest of January's schedule? They have 10 games left this month but smack in the middle of that run they face, in order: Phoenix, Denver (both in LA), at San Antonio and Dallas, and then they host Cleveland. They finish the month on the road against Detroit and then go on a looong swing through the EC (9 games) before the break. That is a pretty tough schedule and should show us what they are really made of, is .500 through the next 10 including at least 2 wins against any combo of upper tier teams a good run or does it expose them as too young and too inexperienced?

I say they must take at least 3 from the top tier teams, Dallas, Denver (I know, not really top tier, just going by their record), San Antonio, Phoenix, and Detroit to prove something to the NBA and one of those wins MUST be either Dallas or SA, preferably the Spurs.

The Lakers are 15-5 in conference, 4-1 in division and have a better road record than all but Phoenix and New Orleans in the WC but they are only 11-9 against over .500 teams including losses against Boston (2x) and San Antonio (1-1) but they own Denver, Phoenix and Utah (2-1) and IMO has one of the better young benches in the league.

I am stoked about their play of late. Bynum, despite WOW's misgivings, is living up to his potential as his confidence and playing time increase, and we have a solid group of scorers that are kind of demonstrating that Kobe saying he would share the ball as his confidence in his team mates increases was not just talk, he meant it, his PPG is down but their wins are up and his defensive numbers are up, proving that he is putting more energy into that end of the floor instead of shouldering the bulk of the offensive load to the detriment of defense.

At this point, I fear neither Dallas nor Phoenix in a series and really only see the Spurs or Boston as just flat superior teams, although I doubt they get out of the second round, if this play continues, they have to be making teams other than Boston and San Antonio nervous,  thoughts?

[westkoast]

About January:  This is a good month for them to show what they are made of.  It also comes an a perfect time for them as they are in a groove on both ends of the floor.  They are blowing teams out with solid defense and great rebounding thanks to Lamar and Bynum.    Kobe (7th in steals), Fisher,  and Trevor Ariza (his anticipation is GREAT)  are playing very good defense and I think that really has made it tough for perimeter, jump shooting teams to go off on them.

As for Bynum, I disagreed with WOW as did others, but while I love his improved play I think a bigger difference in this Laker team is Derek Fisher.  Yea I said it, right now Derek Fisher is just as important if not more important then Andrew Bynum.  The reason I say that is he relives pressure from Lamar to create on the offensive end, he is the best 3 pt threat on the team, his defense on the perimeter is a HUGE improvement over Smush Parker, and he adds a level headed veteran on court LEADERSHIP quality  the team was missing.  That is not including his work ethic, helping guys like Jordan Farmar,  and him just being an all around nice guy that is a glue to a squad.  The Utah fans here would probably agree with me I am sure.  The Lakers would not look as good as they do if it wasn't for Derek Fisher.  On nights where Bynum scores 10 points and gets 8 rebounds the Lakers are still pounding teams.  He doesn't have to have a big night for the Lakers to win.

Right now Dallas confidence in the playoffs is a bit shaken.  It has to be.  They will always have the thought of losing to lower seed in the first round.  That should bode well for the Lakers if they meet them.    Phoenix is another story.  While they have "owned" the Suns this year they have still yet to beat them in the playoffs.  The Lakers have improved though.  This squad is better then the squad that almost beat them 2 years back.  Derek Fisher is 10x the player Smush Parker is, they have no true answer for Bynum, and Trevor Ariza is the perfect counter to the Grant Hill signing.  As for SA the Lakers are flat out not on their level yet.  Boston is a match up nightmare for the Lakers.  The Lakers do not want to see SA in the playoffs.  I really don't think they'll get far enough to even see Boston so I don't think it matters.  Dallas, PHX, Houston, Denver, NO are all teams the Lakers should have a good series with.  All very beatable teams but not a shoe in by any means.

[ziggy]

I saw John Hollinger's latest projected standing, which is based upon a complicated formula, where games are played out on computer based upon a number of different factors.  On his latest version he had the Lakers finishing the season with the best record in the West, with 57 wins.  He seems to think they are for real.

[WayOutWest]

At this point in time I don't see the Lakers being able to beat the Spurs in the playoffs.  TD and Parker tilt the scale in the Spurs favor.  I just don't see Bynum with the ability to stay in the game, let alone be effective, with TD on the court.  IMO Bynum is two, possibly one, years away from holding his own against TD.  When I say hold his own against TD I don't mean KG hold his own, I mean Bynum will be able to stay on the court and out of fould trouble and contribute to the Lakers like he is doing now in the playoffs.  Kobe "owns" so I'm not worried about any of their SG's or SF's so the next problem spot is the PG position.  Unlike Fisher, Parker will cause problems for the Laker front court players.  He will drive to the basket and disrupt the defense and cause foul trouble for the Lakers.  Fisher cannot guard Parker and Parker doesn't have to worry much about Fishers offense as long as he stays with him and doesnt help on Kobe, Odom or Bynum.

While offensively I think the Lakers are on equal terms with the Spurs, the inabliltiy for the Lakers to defend TD and Parker effectively will be the Lakers downfall SHOULD they meet in the playoffs.  On the reverse the Spurs will have a very difficult time gaurding Kobe and POSSIBLY Odom and Odom can play consistently in the playoffs.  I just don't have much confidence in Odom and Bynum stepping this year in the playoffs and that is what it would take to beat the Spurs.  I think the Spurs are showing their age but the older they get the wiser they seem to play, it seems like the Mavs and Suns have taken a step backwards while the Spurs have only taken a half step backwards so I would think the Spurs are still the favorites out west.  That being said I think if the Lakers are going to beat the Spurs in the playoffs, before father time has his way with TD and the rest of the Spurs, then it should be this year to really go down as a true accomplishment for Kobe and PJ.  Otherwise it will be like the passing of the guard type of scenario where they didn't really kill the king, they just waited for him to get old and fat.

If the Lakers play it right, Bynum and Odom can offset Amare and Matrix and leave Nash, Barbosa and Bell to match up with Kobe, Fisher, Walton with the balance of the Lakers bench going up against the Suns bench plus with PJ coaching the Lakers and Nash..err...Di Antoni coaching the Suns, the Lakers have a clear advantage.

Haven't seen enough of the Mavs really but on paper the Lakers match up really well.  We will have somewhat the same problems with Dirk, Howard and Harris but Dirk will not get the Laker big men into trouble like TD and will not cause the defense to collapse either.  I really look forward to this match up.

I think the Lakers match up pretty well with anyone in the west with the exception of the Spurs, Utah and possibly Golden State.  As always, Denver is a wild card, when ever a team has two 30+pts potential scorers, all bets are off.

[JoMal]

Since the Lakers aren't playing the Kings in January, how on earth can you truly judge their progress? 

[WayOutWest]

I saw John Hollinger's latest projected standing, which is based upon a complicated formula, where games are played out on computer based upon a number of different factors.  On his latest version he had the Lakers finishing the season with the best record in the West, with 57 wins.  He seems to think they are for real.

The guys computer must be a Mac.  Historically the Spurs turn it own in the second half of the season, I'd expect the Lakers to finish third at best, more likely they will finish 4th or 5th depending on how well the Hornets hold up and since I don't expect Portland to keep up their torrid pace.

[Laker Fan]

Good points all, I had meant to mention the impact Fisher's leadership and stability had on this team this year but I really wanted to focus on the overall play of the squad AND bench and Kobe's clear attitude change when it comes to ball hogging and trying to win it by himself all the time.

That said I think the Laker's youth, energy, and speed, coupled with solid defense and a nice mix of experience thrown in with Kobe, Fisher, and Odom (so long as he is healthy) will be too much for Phoenix this year should they meet in the playoffs, Fisher's savvy and Kobe's unguardability along with Bynum's improvement and Ariva's rebounding has tipped the scales LA's way.

Denver can be explosive but IMO they're built to be explosive, not to be consistant and they have no answer in the middle when LA is clicking in the front court.

The Jazz were surprising me this year with the drop in play until I realized it has a direct correlation to Fisher's departure, although I would LOOOOVEE to see Williams in Laker gear, I just don't think they are quick enough right now to compete with LA over a series.

Dallas is just simply NOT the team they were last year and I haven't seen them enough this year to come to any conclusion as to why, but I do know LA is as fast, and defensively they are better and so I think that while they would be tough, I think LA maches up better than in the past, more like GS last year and we all know how that turned out for the Mavs.

New Orleans I will wait and see, don't know enough about them to form an objective opinion.

San Antonio is a whole different ball of wax, this team is just brutally efficient at everything they do and I agree with everyone, Bynum has NO SHOT against Duncan, although I do think the Lakers can handle to some extent Parker by committee, they can run Sasha, Farmar, and Turiaf at him all game long and take him out of his game a little, I would like to see them let Duncan get his and shut down Parker but than you have the X factor, Ginobili, he disrupts an offense as good as anyone in the NBA and if he is consistant in a given series, LA has no answer for him, but I do think LA has a bench I would stack against any in the NBA and that includes the Spurs. I just don't think LA's starting squad is in the same league as them right now, that is why I say January is so critical and especially if they take out the Spurs in that little jog through Texas.

[ziggy]

I don't expect Portland to keep up their torrid pace.

I am stunned.  You don't see Portland winning 44 of their last 47     You are just a hater 

[Skandery]

You guys bracing for a renewed Blazer-Laker rivalry? 

[Lurker]

Not much time so a couple quick comments...

Hollinger's "projections" are based on his complicated ranking system and takes into account only the statistical evidence that has occurred in the season so far.  It does not account for injuries, missed games (Nash last night) or the fact that some teams gel as the second season approaches.  It also cannot factor in trades or any other changes to rosters, coaches etc.

IMO the Lakers are real...not elite level yet but definately 2nd tier.  One of the key things this year has been playing Odom at the PF spot more.  And this has happened even more since the Ariza trade.

Here is an article that kisses PJ's butt and at the same time makes some good points...

The Juice: Jax stabilizes his team -- you listening, Riles? 
   Jan. 9, 2008
By Tony Mejia
CBSSports.com Staff Writer       

In a season where the Boston Celtics have lost as many times through their first 32 games as his 72-win Bulls team did 12 years ago, Phil Jackson is in the midst of his finest coaching job ever.

His hair is whiter and thinner and he doesn't move as well, but as far as being able to extract every ounce of effort from the components of his roster, he's back at the top of his game. People forget that Chicago squad had its share of challenges, from curbing Dennis Rodman to finding minutes for Toni Kukoc off the bench to working with Luc Longley and Bill Wennington as the primary centers. Those two weren't exactly the most active 7-footers in league history.

Those problems paled in comparison to what Jackson faced with the Lakers as this season began. Star guard Kobe Bryant wanted out, making no secret of the animosity he held for management and the team's top building block, center Andrew Bynum, still a teenager back when training camp started. Unless you were the blindest of homers, it was impossible to forecast anything positive.

No one knew who would be in place. Players had to toil in an environment where everyone was wondering who said what about whom and what the latest trade rumors were. It wasn't exactly an atmosphere conducive for growth.

Brian Cook, now with the Orlando Magic, admitted that when L.A.'s training camp began, guys were upset with Bryant. They felt he had thrown his teammates under the bus. Factions were developing. Some refused to talk to him.

Bryant, to his credit, stopped fanning the flames. He might have still wanted out, but he kept his mouth shut. Toward his teammates, he was contrite and apologetic. He said all the right things to a media that hung on his every word, eager to exploit the next time he played contrarian.

Even when Jackson called out his effort late in training camp, Bryant used it as fuel and made assurances that he'd be ready come the regular season, regardless of all the distractions.

Chicago, most closely tied to Bryant as a potential destination, wound up tripped up by all the rumors. Ultimately, that contributed to Scott Skiles losing his job. In L.A., through all that muck and uncertainty, Jackson coaxed progress out of the Lakers, who are 23-11 after a 109-80 victory in New Orleans on Wednesday night.

Bynum, who relishes being told he can't do something or isn't good enough, has grown into a beast. He moved to the forefront of the league's Most Improved Player race, averaging a double-double through 32 games. Backup point guard Jordan Farmar looks like a completely different player than he did as a rookie, brimming with confidence and leading all Lakers reserves in scoring. Rookie Javaris Crittenton has started making an impact, too.

While getting the most out of his young players, Jackson has saved his best work for the veterans he leans on to help him coach the team, something he has always done. Over the years, despite the resistance, he has taught Bryant how to be more like Michael Jordan, involving his teammates more and learning what buttons to push, when to push them and when to take over.

Jackson has stopped trying to shove his Lamar Odom peg into that Scottie Pippen hole, understanding that Odom will never have the ball in his hands as often as Pippen did and realizing that the type of Jordan-Pippen chemistry between two wings comes around once in a lifetime. So Jackson moved Odom to power forward, where he feels he's more active on the boards.

"When he was (a three), he wasn't rebounding as well. We missed that part of the game when he was out on the perimeter and not rebounding with the big guys," Jackson told the L.A. Daily News. "I don't have any problem playing him there (small forward), (but) he defers to Kobe so often. A lot of times Kobe will beat him to the post or beat him to the ball. I have to run specific things just so Lamar gets the ball."

You don't have to diagram rebounds, so Odom is taking advantage and averaging 12 per game over the last five, increasing his touches that way. His move inside has opened up minutes for Luke Walton and Trevor Ariza to share on the wing, with Jackson taking advantage of their strengths -- Walton's passing and Ariza's athleticism -- based on the matchups that present themselves.

Derek Fisher is playing the Ron Harper role, the sage veteran who knocks down shots, defends, is always in the right position and serves as an extension of Jackson on the floor. His 12th season has been the best of his career and it's helped the Zen Master be at his finest.

Fisher has been the glue, with Jackson the adhesive holding it all together when few expected the dysfunctional Lakers could be kept from coming apart. Even when he signed an extension to remain with the team past this season back in November, there was no way of knowing who would be on the roster. There was no way of knowing things would be going this well.

The 2007-08 Lakers won't win 72 games, but they've restored stability to a franchise that spiraled out of control this summer. No matter what the future holds, the fact Jackson is in place through 2010 should infuse L.A. with the confidence it can get through any crisis -- and we do mean any -- so long as his steady hand is pulling the strings.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/story/10567564/1

[Reality]

2008 Laker 2nd half should go much better then 2007.
We concur.
Byns development be it conditioning, Kareems tutoring, simply another year in the NBA, most likely all of the above is the main catalyst combined with Kome sharing the ball.
Ariza trade great so far.

Concur with Lurker, not elite but definitely put themselves in the 2nd tier bunch.
For all WoWs avoidances and maladies, he accurately called Bynums current status of playing tall, will need to see what he does against the few true tall Centers, Howard etc.

Spurs and Lakers both have approx same record as last year Jan 11th.
Lakers again will have a bunch of road games the rest of the way.

[westkoast]

You guys bracing for a renewed Blazer-Laker rivalry? 

It's only a rivalry when the teams beat each other in the playoffs 

(Sorry Zigs tryna add some fire to the board for debates here)

[WayOutWest]

You guys bracing for a renewed Blazer-Laker rivalry? 

It's only a rivalry when the teams beat each other in the playoffs 

(Sorry Zigs tryna add some fire to the board for debates here)

LOL, I always get a kick out of that, not sure which player said that he wasn't aware of a rivalry between his team and another cause his team had never lost.  Thier MIGHT be a Blazer/Laker or Kings/Laker rivalry some day, but not yet.  The rivalry the Lakers had was with the Spurs, hopefully the Lakers can get back to being a rival of the Spurs very soon.

[Skandery]

It's only a rivalry when the teams beat each other in the playoffs 

I know what you mean.  The West/Baylor (and later Chamberlain) Lakers were never really rivals to Boston except for 1 year during the latter 50s and entire 60s decade.

 

[WayOutWest]

It's only a rivalry when the teams beat each other in the playoffs 

I know what you mean.  The West/Baylor (and later Chamberlain) Lakers were never really rivals to Boston except for 1 year during the latter 50s and entire 60s decade.

 

That reminds me, it might have been Russel who said it. 

I don't think there were any rivalries until the 80's, maybe Philly vs Boston in the 60's but I'm not sure.  Lakers were the first dynasty when the NBA was born, the Celtics owned the 60's, Lakers were the team of the 80's when their rivalry with Boston began.  Durring the 80's you had the Lakers/Celtics, Sixers/Celtics, Celtics/Pistons, Pistons/Lakers, Pistons/Bulls and we had the Lakers/Spurs for a while in the early 00's.  That's about all I can remember, any old timers want to shed some light ones I may have missed.  FYI, all those rivalries had a champ taken down by an eventual champ.