Death Penalty

[ziggy]

The Supreme Court is hearing arguments regarding lethal injection, as a "humane" form of execution. 
So what do the rest of you think of the death penalty? 
Pro/con?
Sometimes,maybe?
Hate it, think it is a great deterrent/justifiable punishment? 
OK with it but approve/disapprove of it's implementation?

Just to get things started
I am 100% opposed to the death penalty.  It is never an acceptable punishment.

[westkoast]

I'm on the fence about the death penalty.  I think if you take the lives of multiple people or are a serial child molestor  it's hard for me to say "The state should not play god"  I don't think certain people can be rehabilitated and certainly don't feel like our tax dollars should be spent to house/feed these people for the rest of their lives.  Not to mention having to house them in a special place because they are likely to be killed bu inmates.    At the same time, while I am not a religious person per say, I don't think the US government should play god.   I am really torn on the issue.

One thing I am solid on is that no one way of killing a human is "humane"  Why is injecting them any more humane then shooting them?  Less pain?  The end result is death either way.  Shooting someone in the head would be less pain then injecting them but of course no one would call that humane.

[Reality]

#1 problem is with the U.S. injustice system where both serial molesters are set free to molest again while innocents are serving life terms, how does one know if the **guilty** party is really guilty?

[Skandery]

I'm sort of the same as Westkoast.  Very torn about the issue.  I can easily see how someone can commit an atrocious enough act to warrant death, yet my liberal fibers really make me wonder if it is society's place to impose such a punishment.  I've generally stated that I'm for the Death Penalty under the circumstances.  Don't know how long that'll remain, though. 

I am 100% opposed to the death penalty.  It is never an acceptable punishment.

I've very surprised by this, Kevin.  Why so?

[Reality]

Humans ruling over humans.  Weren't created to do this.
Hasn't ever worked.  Won't ever.

[JoMal]

I am about 75% - 25% in favor. But the evidence of guilt has to be rock solid.

If an ambitious prosecuter, like the guy who somehow is still in office in Ada Oklahoma, is running the prosecution, no, not even if the perp pleads guilty. Which is the problem with implementing the death penalty. Certain states abuse the law way too much to allow it, so I can easily see the arguement for not using the death penalty at all.

FYI, the prosecutor in Ada, I think his name is Anderson, is <simply put> a son of a bitch. He has railroaded convictions based on "dream" testimony, where prisoners have been forced to talk about their dreams, especially if it involves violent dreams and based on this, he has convinced an equally devil-worshipping judge to get convictions and death penalties using these "guilty" pleas. He once got a life sentence for a guy who a year earlier had hung out with another guy who was railroaded into a death sentence by this prosecutor. Eleven years later, DNA evidence exonerated both of these men. The Real killer pleaded guilty based on one, and only one, deal he made with the police. That he would NOT be tried for the crime in Ada.

As long as there are prosecutore like this one, we should shelve the death penalty for only the most obvious and vicious crimes.

Oh, and one other thing. Ever since DNA evidence has been introduced, earlier convictions in the States of Texas and Oklahoma have been overturned at an alarming rate. Makes you wonder how many innocent people have been murdered for crimes they did not commit in those two states alone. DNA has also proven another interesting fact. Most violent murders in this country have been perpetrated by a relatively small number of people, not the larger numbers that crowd our prisons.

[ziggy]

I'm sort of the same as Westkoast.  Very torn about the issue.  I can easily see how someone can commit an atrocious enough act to warrant death, yet my liberal fibers really make me wonder if it is society's place to impose such a punishment.  I've generally stated that I'm for the Death Penalty under the circumstances.  Don't know how long that'll remain, though. 

I am 100% opposed to the death penalty.  It is never an acceptable punishment.

I've very surprised by this, Kevin.  Why so?

First and foremost man is fallible, and no matter how well we design a system of justice, we will make mistakes, and innocent men will be convicted of crimes they did not commit.  If you allow death, then you are allowing for an innocent man to be executed.  It will happen, it is unavoidable, and I am not prepared to allow that to happen.

The only way to assure that no innocent man is ever executed, is to execute no one. 

We can incarcerate innocent people, but at least they have the opportunity to potentially prove their innocence at some point in the future, and they can be released.  If they are executed, then it is impossible to release them from incarceration.

One of the tenets of our system of justice is that you are innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt by a jury of your peers, and we are willing to accept that 100 guilty men may go free so that one innocent man is not wrongly convicted.  I can accept that.  I am never willing to accept that one innocent man is ever executed, and I am willing to house and infinite number of Ted Bundy's and John Wayne Gacy's for the term of their natural lives to assure that, no innocent man is executed to satisfy our blood lust for revenge.

[Reality]

In the meantime, can we please have work done by inmates that genuinely benefits the public at a taxpayer cost effective rate.

25" flat screen computer monitors for all of us at 58 cents apice.

[WayOutWest]

First and foremost man is fallible, and no matter how well we design a system of justice, we will make mistakes, and innocent men will be convicted of crimes they did not commit.  If you allow death, then you are allowing for an innocent man to be executed.  It will happen, it is unavoidable, and I am not prepared to allow that to happen.

That is why I'm opposed to the death penalty as well.  I believe there are crimes that warrant a death sentence BUT as "falible" humans, we are not equipped to handle that responsibility.  How many of you have kids and would kill or put to death someone who in some way harms and child.  We all have biases and other things that make us ill equiped to pass a life or death judgment over another human being.  If you believe in God then you should be against the death penalty because only God can judge.  For all we know Ted Bundy or any monster in history could truely repent and be forgiven, who are we to play God?  Not to mention the horrid record of convictions and executions based on race.  For some reason in this country, the life of a white American is move valuable than the life of black or non-white person.  You are 3.5 times more likely to face the death penalty if you kill someone who is white, in some states the ratio is 80% more likely to face the death penalty if you kill a white person than if you kill a non-white.  All this despite the fact that whites and blacks are the victims of murder at approximately the same rate.

[Derek Bodner]

I'm torn on the issue, but about 75% against, 25% for.  I do think there are people who are deserving of the death penalty, and I do think it's a waste of tax payer dollars to incarcerate people who will never see the light of day, and will never be reformed enough to be a part of society again.  But I also very much see Ziggy's point, and the reason 10 consecutive life sentences is better than the death penalty is on the off chance that we've screwed it up.  Until we erase human error and remove emotions from trial and conviction, it's hard for me to support a death penalty.

[Skandery]

First and foremost man is fallible, and no matter how well we design a system of justice, we will make mistakes, and innocent men will be convicted of crimes they did not commit.  If you allow death, then you are allowing for an innocent man to be executed.  It will happen, it is unavoidable, and I am not prepared to allow that to happen.

Eloquently stated. 

I think at least with advances in science and forensic technique, the amount of people wrongly convicted and placed on death row has decreased dramatically.  At least I should hope so.  If its ever to the point where a conviction is a 100%, I can easily see the need for the Death Penalty for some offenses.  Then again, whose to say the criminal world doesn't also evolve with the times and find ways of rendering these techniques inaccurate or obsolete. 

Tough question. 

[Lurker]

I would have to say that I lean 75-80% for the death penalty.  Especially for repeat offenders in the more violent crimes.  My feelings for these people (if they can be realistically called people) is that I paid to rehab them once or even twice and it didn't work.  So I say take them out back and put a bullet in their head.  Method of death to me is irrelevant as long as quick.  I don't care if they put a damn gernade up their butt.

For those who have not yet earned that special bullet then I will support incarcerating them.  And am willing to have our prisons provide job training and other ways to help rehab those who want it.  But if you get out and screw up again then see above.

But if we abolish the death penalty then IMO all of our prisons should become tent cities.  Screw exercise equipment, big screen tv, health care and any other "perk" that is not provided at government cost to every other citizen.  There is no way in hell that criminals WHO HAVE BEEN CONVICTED BY A JURY OF THEIR PEERS should get a cushy life while law abiding citizens work their asses off to support them.  We have to make prison so miserable that any rational human would choose to obey the law rather than end up in prison a second or third time.

[westkoast]

There is no way in hell that criminals WHO HAVE BEEN CONVICTED BY A JURY OF THEIR PEERS should get a cushy life while law abiding citizens work their asses off to support them.  We have to make prison so miserable that any rational human would choose to obey the law rather than end up in prison a second or third time.

You know jails in other countries are HORRIBLE.  I forget what I was watching but someone was talking about a jail in Canada having cells  that were barely big enough for you to lay down in, it was cold, no special anything, food was barely edible, all that "good" stuff.  Not that I've ever been to prison before or death row but why is it that I've seen some of this inmates with TVs and radios when they take cameras in?!  Last meal request before you die I totally get but some of this other stuff I do not.  Deathrow should be the WORST place to be.

As others have stated it's hard to support the death penalty because of human error and the fact that no one should play god.  At the same time if a guy continues to kill people, ruin childrens lives by molesting them, or continue to rape women...it's hard to say just keep them locked up forever. 

To me it seems like people who get felony drug charges get a way more screwed, compared to their actual crime, then a lot of these child molestors, rapists, and killers.  I've heard of a guy getting caught with a bunch of marijuana doing 3 years but a lady who killed a man only did 4 1/2.

[ziggy]

I would have to say that I lean 75-80% for the death penalty.  Especially for repeat offenders in the more violent crimes.  My feelings for these people (if they can be realistically called people) is that I paid to rehab them once or even twice and it didn't work.  So I say take them out back and put a bullet in their head.  Method of death to me is irrelevant as long as quick.  I don't care if they put a damn gernade up their butt.

For those who have not yet earned that special bullet then I will support incarcerating them.  And am willing to have our prisons provide job training and other ways to help rehab those who want it.  But if you get out and screw up again then see above.

But if we abolish the death penalty then IMO all of our prisons should become tent cities.  Screw exercise equipment, big screen tv, health care and any other "perk" that is not provided at government cost to every other citizen.  There is no way in hell that criminals WHO HAVE BEEN CONVICTED BY A JURY OF THEIR PEERS should get a cushy life while law abiding citizens work their asses off to support them.  We have to make prison so miserable that any rational human would choose to obey the law rather than end up in prison a second or third time.

Any doubt about who lives in Texas?

[Derek Bodner]

To me it seems like people who get felony drug charges get a way more screwed, compared to their actual crime, then a lot of these child molestors, rapists, and killers

A drug dealer to me is the lowest scum in the world.  Who knows who he's sold to.  For all you know, his dealing could be responsible for the deaths of countless children who have been caught up in drugs.