Author Topic: All 5 HOF players G.O.A.T. on floor at once  (Read 4139 times)

Offline Reality

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All 5 HOF players G.O.A.T. on floor at once
« on: October 18, 2007, 12:28:40 AM »
Whether you are a younger (in knowledge) poster or lurker to this board and the NBA, or simply want to gain accurate information on what really happened in NBA history, ESPN Classic is currently showing the 1986 Boston Celts vs the Bucks in the ECFs.

Bob Parish, Billy Walton, Kevin McHale, Larry Bird and DJ were all on the floor for a spell.
For the Bucks Sid Moncrief.  Following will be broadcast of the Celts advancing to face a healthy Ralph Sampson and Olajuwan.
 :'( Oh those were the days.

Offline westkoast

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Re: All 5 HOF players G.O.A.T. on floor at once
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2007, 10:54:48 AM »
I'm confused...are you saying they are the greatest of all time?

I think a lot of people would disagree with that.
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Offline Reality

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Re: All 5 HOF players G.O.A.T. on floor at once
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2007, 11:52:06 AM »
The GOAT discussion could go on forever, but these Celts have to be considered and they're on Classic now.  "HOF" is also very subjective but all these Celts were locks.  Very rare you find 5 on the floor simultaneously.  In fact was this the only time?  Hey should that be a trivia Q?

83 Sixers
60's Celts
03 05 07 Spurs
85 Lakers
Bulls even with the *Rodman flops

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: All 5 HOF players G.O.A.T. on floor at once
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2007, 01:07:30 PM »
The GOAT discussion could go on forever, but these Celts have to be considered and they're on Classic now.  "HOF" is also very subjective but all these Celts were locks.  Very rare you find 5 on the floor simultaneously.  In fact was this the only time?  Hey should that be a trivia Q?

83 Sixers
60's Celts
03 05 07 Spurs
85 Lakers
Bulls even with the *Rodman flops

Not sure which Bulls teams to put on the list, definately the 70 win one.

I'd also add the 87,88 & 89 Lakers.  Were it not for injuries the 89 Lakers would have made history.  IMO the GOAT would be the 02 Lakers that only lost 1 playoff game.  Hands down that's the team for the ages.  The one two punch of Kobe/Shaq was pretty much unstoppable and when a team was lucky enough to contain those two the role players would be nails.  I've only been watching playoff teams since 80's so I can't comment beyond those teams but IMO I have not seen a team that could have handled the 02 Lakers.  There were teams that could contain Shaq but not Kobe (Celts/76ers), there were teams that could contain Kobe but not Shaq (Bulls/Pistons) but no team that could stop both.  IMO only the 80's Lakers and 76er's could outscore the 02 Lakers and possibly win a series against them, eveyone else would succum to the Bulls/Lakers Jackson offense and defense.

My fantasy playoff series for all time would the Jacskson Bulls vs. the Jackson Lakers.  IMO the only other teams that belong in this discussion are the Celtics and Sixers.  IMO the Spurs don't belong on the list because when they had a dominant frontcourt their backcourt was weak and vice versa, right now they are one tweaked TD ankle from becomming playoff fodder.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: All 5 HOF players G.O.A.T. on floor at once
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2007, 01:27:42 PM »
right now they are one tweaked TD ankle from becomming playoff fodder.

As opposed to the Jackson Laker's being one Shaq crispy creme slip & fall from being playoff fodder?

Saying the Spurs wouldn't win without Duncan has as much space in this discussion as saying the Lakers wouldn't win without Shaq.  It didn't happen.  At least there is definitive proof that the Lakers can't win a playoff series without Shaq. 
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Offline westkoast

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Re: All 5 HOF players G.O.A.T. on floor at once
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2007, 02:04:25 PM »
right now they are one tweaked TD ankle from becomming playoff fodder.

As opposed to the Jackson Laker's being one Shaq crispy creme slip & fall from being playoff fodder?

Saying the Spurs wouldn't win without Duncan has as much space in this discussion as saying the Lakers wouldn't win without Shaq.  It didn't happen.  At least there is definitive proof that the Lakers can't win a playoff series without Shaq. 

I agree.  No room for what if's.  The Lakers were one slip and fall to Kobe or Shaq that could have kept them from being one of the most dominant teams of this decade.

No way I say that Celtics team is the best on the floor.  I still think the Showtime Lakers had a better 5 on the floor.  I don't even know if this is the best Celtic line up ever....
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: All 5 HOF players G.O.A.T. on floor at once
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2007, 03:58:17 PM »
right now they are one tweaked TD ankle from becomming playoff fodder.

As opposed to the Jackson Laker's being one Shaq crispy creme slip & fall from being playoff fodder?

Saying the Spurs wouldn't win without Duncan has as much space in this discussion as saying the Lakers wouldn't win without Shaq.  It didn't happen.  At least there is definitive proof that the Lakers can't win a playoff series without Shaq. 

Agreed, I'm just trying to say there is no help to TD on the Spurs front court.  Timmy is pretty much everything, in the past he had DRob, Shaq had Grant/Fox to help shoulder the load.  You can focus on TD and defeat the Spurs in an all-time series, heck the 80's Lakers had a tough time having AC Green on the court until he developed a reliable jumpshot.  The other teams mentioned could score and defend at every spot.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2007, 04:07:45 PM by WayOutWest »
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"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
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Offline Reality

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Re: All 5 HOF players G.O.A.T. on floor at once
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2007, 01:18:03 PM »
No way I say that Celtics team is the best on the floor.  I still think the Showtime Lakers had a better 5 on the floor.  I don't even know if this is the best Celtic line up ever....

So after Houston eliminated those Showtime Lakers have you or W.O.W. even seen the 1986 playoff Celts vs Milwaukee and those Rockets?

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: All 5 HOF players G.O.A.T. on floor at once
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2007, 04:06:03 PM »
So after Houston eliminated those Showtime Lakers have you or W.O.W. even seen the 1986 playoff Celts vs Milwaukee and those Rockets?

I don't need to play "what if" in 86, the proof was in the 85 & 87 pudding.
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"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

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Offline Reality

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Re: All 5 HOF players G.O.A.T. on floor at once
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2007, 04:47:49 PM »
I don't need to play "what if" in 86, the proof was in the 85 & 87 pudding.
:D  84
WayOutWest
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Were it not for injuries the 89 Lakers would have made history.
 

Offline Reality

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Re: All 5 HOF players G.O.A.T. on floor at once
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2007, 04:53:11 PM »
I don't need to play "what if" in 86, the proof was in the 85 & 87 pudding.
  Then of course you are also down with 2003.  More pudding?

Offline Joe Vancil

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Re: All 5 HOF players G.O.A.T. on floor at once
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2007, 10:02:13 AM »
Well, I'm going to throw my $.02 in on the 2002 Laker team - because it's not the team that only lost 1 game.  That team would be the 2001 Laker team.

I think the 1983 Sixer team (that also only lost 1 game) is a good match for the 2001 Laker team, and if any team could stop both Shaq and Kobe, then this would be the team.  The reason?  Their press.  If the game slowed down into a half-court game, the 1983 Sixer team would get DESTROYED by the 2001 Laker team, since the Sixers wouldn't be able to stop either Shaq OR Kobe.  But Shaq and Kobe aren't all that big of scoring threats when they don't have the ball.  The press falling back into the trap that the 1983 Sixers used was PHENOMENAL, and once that press and trap got going, it started feeding itself.  I've never seen a team at any level - before or since - that had that effective of a combination of a press and a trap.

Once Bobby Jones came in for Iavaroni and Clint Richardson came in for Andrew Toney (and sometimes, Clemon Johnson came in for Moses Malone), you had a stellar defensive team out there, with Richardson and Cheeks at the guards, Erving and Jones at the forwards, and either Malone and his rebounding or Johnson and his shot-blocking at the back.  And when you look at the 2001 Lakers, their Achilles heel was at point guard.  Brian Shaw, Ron Harper, Derek Fisher, and Mike Penberthy were all more of shooters than ball-handlers making them vulnerable to the press, and Tyronn Lue, while a skilled dribbler, was an accelerator - which means he's a prime victim for a trap.  The Lakers would have to respond by putting the ball in the hands of Kobe Bryant, in hopes he could get it through the press, plus set up something against the trap.  The one team that bothered the 1983 Sixers at all was the Milwaukee Bucks, and it's easy to see why:  Paul Pressey at point guard (this is before his conversion to "point forward"), Sidney Moncrief at the 2, Marques Johnson at the 3, Alton Lister at the 4, and Bob Lanier at the 5 - this team was *HUGE*, defensively oriented, and wanted to slow the pace to a crawl and eat you up with rebounding.  Pressey was a bit weak as a ball-handler at point, but Marques Johnson was exceptional at the 3, and Moncrief was better than average at the 2, and Bob Lanier, as a center, was actually pretty good, despite being as slow as he was at that time.  And you had guys like Phil Ford, and Charlie Criss on the bench, and I'm pretty sure that they had Brian Winters (combo guard) and another point guard, too (can't remember who).  So you're talking a team that wasn't worried about how quickly they got into their offense...heck, it may take Lanier the entire 10 seconds just to get to the other side of half court WITHOUT the ball.  And offensively, they just ate away at the clock, and let whichever of Moncrief, Johnson, or Lanier had the ball just use their offensive talent.

The 2001 Lakers couldn't run on the 1983 Sixers, and would have trouble getting in to the triangle.  Of course, if they could break the press and get into the offense before Philadelphia could drop back into the trap, they'd destroy Philadelphia, because Malone, while a work horse and a brute, wouldn't wear O'Neal down the way he wore other centers down, and Philadelphia wouldn't have a match for Kobe on the defensive end (and would probably revert to the failed experiment of Dr. J at the 2-guard which got them destroyed against San An and George Gervin in the Eastern Conference playoffs in 1979).  If it turned into an offensive series, the 2001 Lakers would destroy the 76ers...but Philadelphia's press and trap would work to prevent it from becoming an offensive series.

That's probably the best match-up of champions that you'd ever see...and it would be a blow-out - one way or the other.
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: All 5 HOF players G.O.A.T. on floor at once
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2007, 12:41:51 AM »
Well, I'm going to throw my $.02 in on the 2002 Laker team - because it's not the team that only lost 1 game.  That team would be the 2001 Laker team.

I think the 1983 Sixer team (that also only lost 1 game) is a good match for the 2001 Laker team, and if any team could stop both Shaq and Kobe, then this would be the team.  The reason?  Their press.  If the game slowed down into a half-court game, the 1983 Sixer team would get DESTROYED by the 2001 Laker team, since the Sixers wouldn't be able to stop either Shaq OR Kobe.  But Shaq and Kobe aren't all that big of scoring threats when they don't have the ball.  The press falling back into the trap that the 1983 Sixers used was PHENOMENAL, and once that press and trap got going, it started feeding itself.  I've never seen a team at any level - before or since - that had that effective of a combination of a press and a trap.

Once Bobby Jones came in for Iavaroni and Clint Richardson came in for Andrew Toney (and sometimes, Clemon Johnson came in for Moses Malone), you had a stellar defensive team out there, with Richardson and Cheeks at the guards, Erving and Jones at the forwards, and either Malone and his rebounding or Johnson and his shot-blocking at the back.  And when you look at the 2001 Lakers, their Achilles heel was at point guard.  Brian Shaw, Ron Harper, Derek Fisher, and Mike Penberthy were all more of shooters than ball-handlers making them vulnerable to the press, and Tyronn Lue, while a skilled dribbler, was an accelerator - which means he's a prime victim for a trap.  The Lakers would have to respond by putting the ball in the hands of Kobe Bryant, in hopes he could get it through the press, plus set up something against the trap.  The one team that bothered the 1983 Sixers at all was the Milwaukee Bucks, and it's easy to see why:  Paul Pressey at point guard (this is before his conversion to "point forward"), Sidney Moncrief at the 2, Marques Johnson at the 3, Alton Lister at the 4, and Bob Lanier at the 5 - this team was *HUGE*, defensively oriented, and wanted to slow the pace to a crawl and eat you up with rebounding.  Pressey was a bit weak as a ball-handler at point, but Marques Johnson was exceptional at the 3, and Moncrief was better than average at the 2, and Bob Lanier, as a center, was actually pretty good, despite being as slow as he was at that time.  And you had guys like Phil Ford, and Charlie Criss on the bench, and I'm pretty sure that they had Brian Winters (combo guard) and another point guard, too (can't remember who).  So you're talking a team that wasn't worried about how quickly they got into their offense...heck, it may take Lanier the entire 10 seconds just to get to the other side of half court WITHOUT the ball.  And offensively, they just ate away at the clock, and let whichever of Moncrief, Johnson, or Lanier had the ball just use their offensive talent.

The 2001 Lakers couldn't run on the 1983 Sixers, and would have trouble getting in to the triangle.  Of course, if they could break the press and get into the offense before Philadelphia could drop back into the trap, they'd destroy Philadelphia, because Malone, while a work horse and a brute, wouldn't wear O'Neal down the way he wore other centers down, and Philadelphia wouldn't have a match for Kobe on the defensive end (and would probably revert to the failed experiment of Dr. J at the 2-guard which got them destroyed against San An and George Gervin in the Eastern Conference playoffs in 1979).  If it turned into an offensive series, the 2001 Lakers would destroy the 76ers...but Philadelphia's press and trap would work to prevent it from becoming an offensive series.

That's probably the best match-up of champions that you'd ever see...and it would be a blow-out - one way or the other.

Sound like one for the ages.  The only weakness of the 02...errr....01 Lakers was the press.  It worked for Philly in game 1 and nearly got them another win in game 2.  If it wasn't for the adjustment of inserting Tyrone in the 2nd half of game 2 the Lakers might have gone into Philly down 0-2.  The Tyrone adjustment didn't make much of a difference, just allowed the Lakers to get past half court.  I don't know how well the Sixers would do against a bigger, quicker and built player of the modern era.  Everyone from DFish, Fox, Kobe, Grand and Shaq looked like steriod freek body builders compared to 80's era players, especially early 80's era.  That would play into the scenario somewhat.
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Offline Reality

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Re: All 5 HOF players G.O.A.T. on floor at once
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2007, 05:06:21 PM »
 :D  Yeah Dr. J and Bobby Jones would have no chance against Rick Fox and Grant.
Carry on.

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: All 5 HOF players G.O.A.T. on floor at once
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2007, 10:10:13 PM »
:D  Yeah Dr. J and Bobby Jones would have no chance against Rick Fox and Grant.
Carry on.

You said it not me.  Try to peddle a consolidation bracket thread about the Celtics and Spurs in a new thread that way------------------->
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"