Tony Parker hitting weight room hard

[Skandery]

You don't want to hold Deron Williams lack of history against him.  But for Parker you do?

No, just noticed that it was convenient to use just last year's number.  Not holding anything against Parker . . . and I did go with it, didn't I?

So we should penalize Parker because he has been improving each year but reward D-Williams because he improved in his second year?

Yes his scoring, FG%, and PER have improved, all probably attributed to the fact of his maturity and the coaches work making his perimeter shot serviceable.  Other than that though, I don't see stark improvement.

So Parker being in the top 8 proves your point that he has no talent and there are 15 guys with more talent than him?

Refresh my memory if you will, can you post exactly where I said Parker has no talent and that 15 guys have more talent than him.  Thanks.

And to say Parker does little for his team is pure BS.  He does as much for his team or more as D-Williams, Hinrich, Bibby, Paul, etc.  The second leading scorer, the top assists man, 2nd in steals, and floor general.  He controls the tempo of that well oiled machine.

Yes, of course, he does soo much for his team that come 4th quarter winning time, his coach takes the ball out of his hands.

Maybe just a coinidence, maybe not.  I just posted a statistical analysis for defense.  You can interpret for what it is worth.

Thanks, I think I will interpret it for what its worth.  I'm going to say that the individual performance and Player Rating of PGs guarded by Parker are squelched due to the wonderful Team Defense of San Antonio (anchored by their two 1st Team Defenders) moreso than Parker's defensive prowess. 

I can't find Billups name.  Maybe he used an alias....

2005-06 NBA
1st Team
Ron Artest
Bruce Bowen
Kobe Bryant
Jason Kidd
Andrei Kirilenko
Ben Wallace

2nd Team
Chauncey Billups
Marcus Camby
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Tayshaun Prince
 
2004-05 NBA
1st Team
Bruce Bowen
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Larry Hughes
Ben Wallace

2nd Team
Chauncey Billups
Marcus Camby
Jason Kidd
Andrei Kirilenko
Tayshaun Prince
Dwyane Wade

I bolded his name just in case you missed it.

[JoMal]

Love the double post JoMal...if you can't convince with logic then overwhelm with quantity.  

yeah....had some trouble with an edit. Computer is doing things on its own today and not just here.

BTW JoMal what happened to your other line of thinking regarding leading multiple teams?  I didn't see where you supported that one.

Do I have to?

Guys like Gilbert Arenas, Baron Davis, Jason Kidd, Mike Bibby, Steve Nash, and Chaucey Billips have changed teams and not only provided that spark of improvement on their new teams, but have often excelled beyond expectations. This is just an interesting caveat to consider regarding point guards, don't you think? When they change teams, do they make a difference? All of the above not only made a difference, but were credited with the difference due to their leadership and perserverance.  

This isn't even any kind of knock on Parker. But let's face it, he has played in one system since he entered the NBA, and Popovich has maneuvered his talents to cover up his weak areas, like outside shooting. What other systems would he excel at if he changed teams? Not too many other coaches will be able to accommodate him if he needs outside scoring, true point guard leadership, and an assist-minded player. Other point guards might be more attractive on those fronts.

Looking at raw stats is one thing but then how do you explain that comprehensive rating systems rank Parker so much higher?  Maybe he doesn't excel at any one thing but is above average in several categories.  Maybe coaches don't have a clue either as they have voted him to the all star team 2 years in a row.  And sports analysts who rank him as one of the top point guards...obviously they must have the goods on their editors because they couldn't be right either.

Also now the stats are flying whereas at first that wasn't the way to evaluate talent.  But to discuss physical attributes and intangibles such as leadership or court vision are difficult to measure.

Stats go a long way in evaluating talent, but in Parker's case, it is what is missing that needs to be "seen". Like outside scoring, assists with less turnovers, overt on-court leadership, and a higher free throw percentage. His defense is hard to judge because his teammates are so good they can veil Tony's abilities in that regard, plus I believe that Popovich makes team defense the priority and keeps Tony out of harm's way so Bowen can do his thing and Duncan is always back their to cover up anything that comes his way.

Hollinger at ESPN...And of course, Finals MVP Tony Parker continued his progression into one of the game's elite point guards.

Additional ESPN analysis:
Parker has always been a layup machine; the difference is that now he's a layup machine who also can hit outside shots, making him virtually impossible to guard.  

The progression can be seen by looking at both Parker's shot makeup and his percentage from each distance. Parker always has been able to get to the basket, and in fact he took and converted fewer last year than he has in other seasons. He's ridiculously good at them, as only three guards with more than 150 attempts converted a higher percentage of their shots at the rim (those three were Steve Nash, Dwyane Wade and Jose Calderon). In contrast, 16 of the league's point guards made fewer than half of these shots, including some pretty good ones (Mo Williams, Mike Bibby and T.J. Ford, for instance).

The lay-ups I have seen. Tony certainly can drive the lane, no question. Not so much the outside shots. A few, but in comparison to other PG's, Tony could be a bit more assertive in his three pointers, for instance. Like other riflemen, though, his overall shooting percentage won't be around 50% if he ever does.  

Scouting report: Parker is one of the quickest players in the league, especially going to his right, and is a deadly finisher in the basket area from either side. When he can't get all the way to the rim, he has a soft touch on floaters that he puts just out of the reach of rotating big men. He also uses a floater shot-fake -- making him perhaps the only player in the league with this club in his bag -- that he uses often and to great effect.

Going to his right, Parker has added a change of pace move to complement his straight-line speed. And when he goes left on a pick-and-roll, he'll often dribble right into the big man and then quickly spin to his right, sealing the big guy while Parker cruises in for a lay-up. Add in his improved 2-point jumper and he's one of the best scoring point guards in basketball.

Defensively, Parker is underrated. He's bigger than people think at 6-2, and with his quickness he does a good job of keeping opposing dribblers in front of him

[/quote]

They seem to like to point out his ablilities going to the right. What happens when he is forced to got to his left, then?

And as I said, his defense would be hard to measure because he is surrounded with such good ones, he can gamble a bit.

[WayOutWest]

So Parker being in the top 8 proves your point that he has no talent and there are 15 guys with more talent than him?  If he has no talent and little skills then it is just the team that makes him better.

So Parker being in the top 8 proves your point that he has no talent....

....your point that he has no talent....

If he has no talent and little skills then it is just the team that makes him better.

If he has no talent and little skills...

This is EXACTLY why I can NOT debate with you.

[westkoast]

Skandery you believe Pop takes the ball out of Tony's hands in the 4th because he doesn't trust him?!

I never really took it that way.  Always felt like that was one of Pop's very rare light bulb above his head offensive adjustments that really switch things up for the Spurs and give them a different way to attack .  The defense has to  adjust very quickly in the final period.  It did start off as an experiment that happened to work well in their favor most of the time.

[WayOutWest]

Skandery you believe Pop takes the ball out of Tony's hands in the 4th because he doesn't trust him?!

I never really took it that way.  Always felt like that was one of Pop's very rare light bulb above his head offensive adjustments that really switch things up for the Spurs and give them a different way to attack .  The defense to have to adjust very quickly in the final period.  It did start off as an experiment that happened to work well in their favor most of the time.

I agree, for better or worse Manu is unpredictable, and the predictable Spurs offense was just to easy to defend in crunch time, i.e. TD in the low post.  Same thing for the Lakers except Phil knew that before everyone else and put the ball in Kobe's hands rather than wait for opposing coaches to adjust durring the Shaq era.

[Reality]

HASWIMAOTSRSGBT rankings.
1 Parker
2 Arenas       
3 Bibby     
4 Paul       
5 Davis       
6 Nash       
7 Kidd       
8 D Williams   
9 Billups       
10 Mo Williams 
11 Hinrich
     
Hits A Shot When It Matters As Opposed To Some Regular Season Game Blowout Time.

[WayOutWest]

HASWIMAOTSRSGBT rankings.
1 Parker
2 Arenas       
3 Bibby     
4 Paul       
5 Davis       
6 Nash       
7 Kidd       
8 D Williams   
9 Billups       
10 Mo Williams 
11 Hinrich
     
Hits A Shot When It Matters As Opposed To Some Regular Season Game Blowout Time.

LOL!

From 82games.com:

Leading "Game Winning Shot" Players
Player Fgm Fga Fg% Ftm Fta Ast T/O
League Wide 438  1500  .292 303  420  191  139 

01) Carmelo Anthony 11  17  .647 6  8  0  1 
02) Ray Allen 8  18  .444 2  2  0  2 
03) Michael Redd 8  19  .421 6  7  0  1 
04) Steve Francis 8  20  .400 3  3  2  1 
05) Allen Iverson 8  20  .400 5  7  1  2 
06) Joe Johnson 8  23  .348 0  0  1  2 
07) Tracy McGrady 8  23  .348 8  8  0  1 
08) Vince Carter 8  31  .258 5  6  3  2 
09) Ben Gordon 7  13  .538 0  0  1  1 
10) Dirk Nowitzki 7  19  .368 6  10  0  2 
11) Paul Pierce 7  20  .350 8  10  5  3 
12) Kobe Bryant 7  32  .219 8  9  0  1 
13) Jalen Rose 6  10  .600 4  5  0  4 
14) Derek Fisher 6  12  .500 2  2  1  0 
15) Pau Gasol 6  12  .500 3  4  1  1 
16) Damon Stoudamire 6  12  .500 0  0  4  1 
17) Tim Duncan 6  13  .462 3  4  0  1 
18) Ricky Davis 6  16  .375 5  5  1  0 
19) Dwyane Wade 6  17  .353 3  5  2  1 
20) Jamal Crawford 6  19  .316 2  3  0  0 
21) Damon Jones 5  8  .625 1  1  1  0 
22) Zach Randolph 5  8  .625 4  5  0  0 
23) Richard Hamilton 5  10  .500 2  2  2  2 
24) Antawn Jamison 5  10  .500 0  2  0  0 
25) Jason Terry 5  13  .385 1  2  0  0 
26) Gilbert Arenas 5  16  .313 7  7  0  3 
27) Mike Bibby 5  16  .313 1  1  3  1 
28) Chris Webber 5  17  .294 0  0  1  1 
29) Kevin Garnett 5  21  .238 3  3  0  0 
30) Chauncey Billups 5  26  .192 11  12  2  1 
31) P.J. Brown 4  7  .571 0  0  0  0 
32) Yao Ming 4  8  .500 4  5  0  1 
33) Tony Parker 4  9  .444 0  0  3  0 
34) Richard Jefferson 4  10  .400 1  1  0  1 
35) Shawn Marion 4  10  .400 0  0  0  0 
36) Baron Davis 4  13  .308 2  2  2  1 
37) Mike James 4  13  .308 2  4  2  0 
38) Rasheed Wallace 4  18  .222 2  2  0  1 
39) LeBron James 4  19  .211 5  9  4  2 


04) Steve Francis 8  20  .400 3  3  2  1 
05) Allen Iverson 8  20  .400 5  7  1  2 
09) Ben Gordon 7  13  .538 0  0  1  1 
14) Derek Fisher 6  12  .500 2  2  1  0 
16) Damon Stoudamire 6  12  .500 0  0  4  1 
19) Dwyane Wade 6  17  .353 3  5  2  1 
20) Jamal Crawford 6  19  .316 2  3  0  0 
21) Damon Jones 5  8  .625 1  1  1  0 
25) Jason Terry 5  13  .385 1  2  0  0 
26) Gilbert Arenas 5  16  .313 7  7  0  3 
27) Mike Bibby 5  16  .313 1  1  3  1 
30) Chauncey Billups 5  26  .192 11  12  2  1 
33) Tony Parker 4  9  .444 0  0  3  0 
36) Baron Davis 4  13  .308 2  2  2  1 
37) Mike James 4  13  .308 2  4  2  0 

[Reality]

repost.  Also from 82games.com
2007 Playoff Jumpers money time:
64.3% in the last five minutes of games in that neither team were up by more than 5 points.

MVP Tony Parker.

[WayOutWest]

repost.  Also from 82games.com
2007 Playoff Jumpers money time:
64.3% in the last five minutes of games in that neither team were up by more than 5 points.

MVP Tony Parker.

So you are giving up your bogus "Hits A Shot When It Matters As Opposed To Some Regular Season Game Blowout Time." MADE UP rankings and going with his FG%.  Mmmmmmkay.........