CWebb's quote -- words to live by . . .

[Randy]

About Kobe's tremendous game after spending the day in court in Colorado.

"Some players live for it, and he's one of those players," Webber said. "That team wouldn't be the team that it is without him. Believe that."

Umm, hey CWebb, makes us wonder what the Kings would be like without you too.  Oh, that's right, we know -- they were winning!   :lol:  

[gaither]

Ohhh, that's cruel, Randy.  

I believe Webber wants to win, wants his team to win. He'd like to be the kind of player who can put the team on his shoulders and carry them. But he doesn't understand that 1) the Kings don't need him to that and 2) he is not physically strong (mobile) enough to do that right now. What he should be doing is passing, setting up his teammates so they can score. Sure he'll probably get flack for not being the team leader (at his salary!), but true leaders empower those around them.

[Laker Fan]

Which really is point isn't it JW? True leaders empower, true leaders lead, true leaders inspire confidence. Webber deflates, Webber whines, Webber doesn't lead, never has, IMO, never will. Webber thinks of Webber, Webber is transfixed by the cult of Webber, Webber blames everyone but Webber for Webber's shortcomings.

You were absolutely correct in an earlier post, this cat should be on the trading block after this season, problem is, everyone has seen his act and everyone knows they will be getting a crybaby whining criminal who has not the intestinal fortitude or the heart to lead anyone anywhere but to the bridesmaid table.

As much as I revel in the Kings\Lakers rivalry and the desire to see our friends north of the cosmic universe get smacked around in the post season by the purple and gold juggernaut, I really like the Kings and the organization. I think they have a very good team that is exceptionally exciting to watch and in fact if LA didn't make it I would root for them all the way. I just think it is a pity they pin their hopes to this feckless loser. Dump him and get yourself a power forward that has a heart and these guys could go all the way.

[gaither]

Which really is point isn't it JW? True leaders empower, true leaders lead, true leaders inspire confidence. Webber deflates, Webber whines, Webber doesn't lead, never has, IMO, never will. Webber thinks of Webber, Webber is transfixed by the cult of Webber, Webber blames everyone but Webber for Webber's shortcomings.
 

If you are using that as the criteria, then neither Shaq, Kobe, or Payton are leaders either. Leaders are human. Even the best leaders whine and lose their footing sometimes.

No, I don't think Webber is a true leader. I don't think he is comfortable in that role, except for brief interludes. But there can be more than one leader on a team; leadership can be shared. Unfortunately, I don't think there is another leader on the Kings with the "power" and influence to assume that role. I remember this same discussion cropping up several years ago, and JoMal said that there was no one else with the influence to assert himself as a leader for the team. I'm curious if he thinks that situation has changed since then.

[Laker Fan]

Hmm, why only come up with Lakers in your comparison? There are plenty of so-called leaders in the NBA who do nothing to lead their team anywhere. We were discussing Webber, not Shaq, Kobe, or Payton. By that criteria, neither LA nor Sacramento has a shot because they are leaderless.

Personally I don't think they Kings need a leader as such, without Webber in the line up, thye are a cohesive and mind-melded unit where everybody understands his role and plays within that role very well (except on defense).

And no, I do not think the best leaders whine sometimes, they may lose their footing with regards to having a bad game or series of games, but they don't lose their footing with regards to what their role is within the team concept. Magic Johnson is the superlative example of that, as is Bird, as was Jabbar, and numerous others, we just don't see it as much in today's self-centered players.

[Lurker]

IMO the leader of the Lakers this year is Malone.  He is the most critical of the big 4 in terms of holding the team together in the playoffs.  Shaq & Kobe might be the workhorses that will lead the team statistically but Karl is the heart of that team.

For the Kings I would say it is either Bibby or Jackson but when Webber is playing they defer to him.  They need to step up and tell Webber that he is not the focus and to play within the team framework.  They need to act like leaders....and Adelman needs to support them.

[Laker Fan]

Well said BBF, although I still believe the Kings could win it all without a true leader, they play so well as a team they really don't seem to need one, that's why Webber is such a disruption.

I also completely agree about Malone and I was going to mention that but just simply forgot.

[JoMal]

No, I don't think Webber is a true leader. I don't think he is comfortable in that role, except for brief interludes. But there can be more than one leader on a team; leadership can be shared. Unfortunately, I don't think there is another leader on the Kings with the "power" and influence to assume that role. I remember this same discussion cropping up several years ago, and JoMal said that there was no one else with the influence to assert himself as a leader for the team. I'm curious if he thinks that situation has changed since then.

The Kings have never quite fit the mode that other teams seem to develop, where a clearcut leader emerges who pushes the issues that need pushing when needed. While they are a tight-knit group that get along very well off the court and during practice, sometimes a needed chewing out has to be done during a game or in the locker room, and by one of the players and not a coach.

Now, Webber has tried to be the leader. He has admitted in the past to never wanting to be that guy, rather just a part of the system, but with his status and salary, even he knows that is no longer an option. What is significant is that the rest of the King's players have annointed him their leader, especially on the court. Vlade would be the nominal leader otherwise. While no longer having the skills and quickness usually associated with a team leader, Divac was clearly the guy driving the team in Webber's absence. The offense ran through him and the results were phenomenal.

Since Webber's return, he has become subservient  once again to Chris and defers to him concerning the offense as was the case when Webber was healthier. Since Vlade is the "unrecognized" leader of the Kings, the other players have followed his lead and are letting Chris dictate the offense, which has suffered from the transition. They want Chris to once again be the best player on the team and feed off his strength, but Chris is not in good enough health to fill the role as he once did.

The team needs Vlade back in charge, with all aspects of the offense feeding off of Divac's skills as a passer. He also should tell Chris that his duties should focus on rebounding and defending the middle, and for him not to worry about his shots because with Vlade running things, he will be getting his share. The coaches should support him here as well.

Everyone with the team seems to be committed to giving the team wholeheartedly back to Webber even though Chris can't handle it yet. The team, including Webber, should give this team to Vlade, who clearly does possess the leadership qualities everyone looks for, even though he no longer has "dassling"  :lol: athletism.

The Webber experiment has it's chance. It is now time to go back to what was working.  

[WayOutWest]

And no, I do not think the best leaders whine sometimes, they may lose their footing with regards to having a bad game or series of games, but they don't lose their footing with regards to what their role is within the team concept. Magic Johnson is the superlative example of that, as is Bird, as was Jabbar, and numerous others, we just don't see it as much in today's self-centered players.

What?  Magic and Kareem whined like crazy, which guys are you refferring too?  Throw Jordan into the whinner catagory as well and move him to the top of the list of this trio.

I never EVER saw Bird whine or pull some drama BS like Magic and Kobe do.  Some people call that showmanship I call it drama, Bird would have none of that.

Dumars, Cooper and Mycal Thompson are the only other NON-whiners I can think of at the time.

Magic and Jabber? PLEASE!

[Reality]

pull the rope in once in a while.

[Laker Fan]

You misunderstood my point WOW. Jabbar and Magic did not whine like little women about the constant mistreatment and play the "poor poor pitiful me" routine and "will everybody stop picking on me" nonsense Webber plays. Additonally, Magic and Jabbar were LEADERS, they led by example, they led by strength of character, and they led by their willingness to take responsibility personally, even if that meant ripping their teammates for their lack of effort, a classic example was the Lakers 4-1 series loss in the Bulls first Finals appearance. When it comes to leading on the court and being a man, win or lose, Webber coudn't lace up Magics shoes. no comparison. There is a BIG by HUGE by LARGE difference in the kind of whining sissy boy Webber does and what MAgic and Jabbar may have done, these men led their team, cared about the team, made the team better by being who they were, ripped their team if they slacked up. Webber thinks about Webber, period.

[WayOutWest]

You misunderstood my point WOW. Jabbar and Magic did not whine like little women about the constant mistreatment and play the "poor poor pitiful me" routine and "will everybody stop picking on me" nonsense Webber plays. Additonally, Magic and Jabbar were LEADERS, they led by example, they led by strength of character, and they led by their willingness to take responsibility personally, even if that meant ripping their teammates for their lack of effort, a classic example was the Lakers 4-1 series loss in the Bulls first Finals appearance. When it comes to leading on the court and being a man, win or lose, Webber coudn't lace up Magics shoes. no comparison. There is a BIG by HUGE by LARGE difference in the kind of whining sissy boy Webber does and what MAgic and Jabbar may have done, these men led their team, cared about the team, made the team better by being who they were, ripped their team if they slacked up. Webber thinks about Webber, period.

Agreed about Magic but now way I put Kareem in that catagory.  He can barely get a job as a scout because he was suck an SOB.  He was too reserved and aloof and that just rubbed people the wrong way.  It wasn't until Magic's arrival that Cap-n-Hook opened up.
 

[JoMal]

You misunderstood my point WOW. Jabbar and Magic did not whine like little women about the constant mistreatment and play the "poor poor pitiful me" routine and "will everybody stop picking on me" nonsense Webber plays. Additonally, Magic and Jabbar were LEADERS, they led by example, they led by strength of character, and they led by their willingness to take responsibility personally, even if that meant ripping their teammates for their lack of effort, a classic example was the Lakers 4-1 series loss in the Bulls first Finals appearance. When it comes to leading on the court and being a man, win or lose, Webber coudn't lace up Magics shoes. no comparison. There is a BIG by HUGE by LARGE difference in the kind of whining sissy boy Webber does and what MAgic and Jabbar may have done, these men led their team, cared about the team, made the team better by being who they were, ripped their team if they slacked up. Webber thinks about Webber, period.

While we are on the subject, could someone please tell Kobe and the rest of these crybabies to shut the hell up? That motivation crap the Lakers keep bringing up about shutting the Kings players up after the last game in LA is pretty ridiculous. So far this year, the only team whining and complaining and staging a poor, poor, pitiful us sit-in has been the Lakers and their coach.

The Kings have been completely silent regarding the Lakers, while the Lakers keep throwing themselves on the court and screaming about those bad talkers who want to "get" at them. Fox comes out and says the Kings think they are in the Lakers league while only the Spurs can claim that because they also have won a championship. News flash, Mrs Williams, your contributions to those championships involves getting your jock strap on facing the right way and learning that a family man from the streets still fights like a street fighter when confronted with a pussy wannabe.

If Bryant wants to 'shut up the Kings' because of Bibby's dance, he can stand in line behind all the other teams who got to see Bibby's dance first; the Lakers rank too far down the list for Bryant to be so worried about it. You want to celebrate just one victory over the team you supposedly don't rank in your league yet about which you constantly are blow bubbles out your collective asses every time one of your media whores sticks a mike up there sounds like the biggest pile of hypocracy since zen philosophy became "hip" with the retard generation.

[Randy]

You misunderstood my point WOW. Jabbar and Magic did not whine like little women about the constant mistreatment and play the "poor poor pitiful me" routine and "will everybody stop picking on me" nonsense Webber plays. Additonally, Magic and Jabbar were LEADERS, they led by example, they led by strength of character, and they led by their willingness to take responsibility personally, even if that meant ripping their teammates for their lack of effort, a classic example was the Lakers 4-1 series loss in the Bulls first Finals appearance. When it comes to leading on the court and being a man, win or lose, Webber coudn't lace up Magics shoes. no comparison. There is a BIG by HUGE by LARGE difference in the kind of whining sissy boy Webber does and what MAgic and Jabbar may have done, these men led their team, cared about the team, made the team better by being who they were, ripped their team if they slacked up. Webber thinks about Webber, period.

While we are on the subject, could someone please tell Kobe and the rest of these crybabies to shut the hell up? That motivation crap the Lakers keep bringing up about shutting the Kings players up after the last game in LA is pretty ridiculous. So far this year, the only team whining and complaining and staging a poor, poor, pitiful us sit-in has been the Lakers and their coach.

The Kings have been completely silent regarding the Lakers, while the Lakers keep throwing themselves on the court and screaming about those bad talkers who want to "get" at them. Fox comes out and says the Kings think they are in the Lakers league while only the Spurs can claim that because they also have won a championship. News flash, Mrs Williams, your contributions to those championships involves getting your jock strap on facing the right way and learning that a family man from the streets still fights like a street fighter when confronted with a pussy wannabe.

If Bryant wants to 'shut up the Kings' because of Bibby's dance, he can stand in line behind all the other teams who got to see Bibby's dance first; the Lakers rank too far down the list for Bryant to be so worried about it. You want to celebrate just one victory over the team you supposedly don't rank in your league yet about which you constantly are blow bubbles out your collective asses every time one of your media whores sticks a mike up there sounds like the biggest pile of hypocracy since zen philosophy became "hip" with the retard generation.

Oh, please, the Kings HATE LA -- and it goes back several years, doesn't it?  Everyone knows it -- whether it's LA or SacTown so I don't know why you are surprised at Kobe's comments.  Bibby, Bobby Jackson, Vlade and the other Kings have proven that they are great at running their mouths -- unfortunately, they haven't proven they can back it up yet.

And the Lakers have always run their mouths -- they have, however, managed to back it up in the past and are ready to do it again this year.

[JoMal]

You can't even come close to suggesting anything the Kings have said in the past equates to the blathering the Lakers have done. That they insist on making this an issue just tells me they are completely infatuated with everything King, even when it does not include them, which most of what the Kings are about does not.