Kobe forcing a trade. Or not.

[Joe Vancil]

WayOut,

I think the operative words there are "The Clippers."  There's a reason that franchise has long been a joke, and it starts with the fact that the owner doesn't want to compete. 

The fact is that Kobe feels that the Lakers' front office doesn't want to compete.  The problem that I see is that he'll say that about any team he goes to, since the only way the Lakers would agree to the trade is if the team getting Kobe guts itself in order to get him. 

Consider this possibility;  Miami won a championship two seasons back.  Would Kobe go to Miami in exchange for Dwyane Wade plus salary, knowing that that salary will entail some of the players who make Miami what it is?  And will he be happy there once Alonzo and Shaq retire, and he has to go through the rebuilding phase?  In such a case, is he really that much better off than he is right now?

The kind of team that will trade for Kobe is a team that thinks it is missing a piece - someone like Bryant - and that its window is *NOW* rather than the FUTURE.  You don't trade for Bryant to win 4 years down the road;  you trade for him to win *NOW*.  In addition, the team has to believe that it has enough to give up to get Bryant and *STILL* be in the hunt.  So, essentially, you're talking an elite-level team.

LA needs to do what Boston just did.  The problem is that they don't have the young talent that Boston had to do it with.

If you want to keep Bryant happy, you have to do something along the line of asking Indiana what it will take to get Jermaine O'Neal, and when they tell you, just pull the trigger.  If you're not the one trading away the bigger name, you're not the one who gets to set the terms.  The Lakers are not going to get to set the terms for getting help for Bryant.

And I'm not sure that with Bryant publicly unhappy and the team needing to make a move that a team that is interested in getting Bryant will allow the Lakers to dictate the terms, as they normally would.

[msc]

The Lakers won't trade Kobe.  There's no upside to it.  They'd be at least equally better off just letting him walk after next season and clearing the $20mil in cap space to go pursue a free agent or multiple free agents.  His going public cost the Lakers any leverage they would have at the negotaiting table in a trade this summer.  While I can understand his frustration, he was a flippin' idiot to go on every radio talk show and air his grievences.

As far as the original topic of this thread ... Reality, are you drunk?  Unless these tickets are coming to you free ... why in the world would you want 43 games worth of Laker tickets?  I bleed purple and gold and I've been pissed these past three years cutting the check for this crappy product.  I'm just holding out for the day when I finally upgrade to courtside seats and the Lakers are good again ... so in like 30 years or so :-)

[Reality]

To see the Spurs, Greg Oden, etc.
I would sell 38-40 of the 43 tickets.  Guessing some would sell below face, some above but all in all coming out in the green.  Thereby making the remaining games freebies to offset the 10 hour drive one way from San Diego.  So msc, are Laker tickets selling at above face for reg season, or are those days long gone?  I realize that depends on which seating area, but generally speaking are they?  Westkoast has found it depends on which game.  Prolly that's it, right?  Crumby teams like vs Memphis you can get at face (below face).  Hot games are well above?  I know I called Barrys a half hour before the Sunday playoff game vs Phx.  He wanted 600ea.  I gave him a kite.  Of course you had already told me playoffs would be completely different from reg season.  Plus Sunday, plus entertaining Phx, etc.  So maybe that was a rare one.  Or is Barrys always sky high?

Plus it would include playoff game buying rights which are always above face, even if the Lakers go 40-42 and are 1st round fodder.

If Lakers make no moves by camp, will be interesting to see how Kobe responds.  Sounds like none of us know of any precedent of NBA players holding out, except for WOWs Danny Ferry Clips recall.

[WayOutWest]

Sounds like none of us know of any precedent of NBA players holding out, except for WOWs Danny Ferry Clips recall.

Can't think of anyone stupid enough to make those demands publicly.  It's possible someone's done it behind closed doors.

[rickortreat]

Too late now, all the big trades have been made.  Kobe can't go anywhere, and the Lakers probably can't find any team willing to give them value for him.

The Lakers as they are now will likely miss the playoffs- but this depends on the teams around their level in the west improving enough to keep them out.

Next year will be a different story,  the Lakers have that long to add players or figure out a deal that lets them end the Kobe era in good shape.

Some of you are giving Kobe too much credit.  It's clear he didn't think before speaking and put the Lakers into a bad spot- which is just plain STUPID.  If he really wanted to be traded he should have talked to mgmt. on the quiet.  Going public made it that much harder to get a deal done.

Meanwhile the Lakers aren't doing anything to make the team better and probably can't do to much anyway- no one else of real value to trade, no-one other than Jermaine O'Neil to get. Bird won't bend over to help the Lakers, you all know that!

[westkoast]

To see the Spurs, Greg Oden, etc.
I would sell 38-40 of the 43 tickets.  Guessing some would sell below face, some above but all in all coming out in the green.  Thereby making the remaining games freebies to offset the 10 hour drive one way from San Diego.  So msc, are Laker tickets selling at above face for reg season, or are those days long gone?  I realize that depends on which seating area, but generally speaking are they?  Westkoast has found it depends on which game.  Prolly that's it, right?  Crumby teams like vs Memphis you can get at face (below face).  Hot games are well above?  I know I called Barrys a half hour before the Sunday playoff game vs Phx.  He wanted 600ea.  I gave him a kite.  Of course you had already told me playoffs would be completely different from reg season.  Plus Sunday, plus entertaining Phx, etc.  So maybe that was a rare one.  Or is Barrys always sky high?

Plus it would include playoff game buying rights which are always above face, even if the Lakers go 40-42 and are 1st round fodder.

If Lakers make no moves by camp, will be interesting to see how Kobe responds.  Sounds like none of us know of any precedent of NBA players holding out, except for WOWs Danny Ferry Clips recall.

Unless Kobe is chasing some kind of record or is on a tear there is like 10 games that will be hot for you, 2 of which you will end up keeping (Spurses).  Depending how the schedule looks you should get 2 a piece for the big WC teams...sometimes they only play them once at home (like the jazz last year I believe) and obviously 1 for Miami/Boston/Cavs.  Tickets on holidays usually are against good teams but it's hard to get rid of them unless its the X-Mas day game which is always big.  Easter last year I saw PHX because the ticket holders didn't want to miss Easter to go to a basketball game.  Other then that it's not big deal to get tickets at a reasonable price, at least for myself.  Stubhub i've seen crazy prices.  Ticketmaster jacks up prices as well for good teams.  Are they in nose bleeds?  If they are mid level seats then you will have A LOT of room to bump up the price regardless.

600 for any PHX game, BAHAHA.  You just have gave him a kite with a key attached to it when a lighting storm was about to hit.  I paid face value for the PHX game I went to at the end of the year.

[msc]

Reality, I can't speak accuratley to the current market value of Laker tix considering I haven't been in the market much these past 8 years as I have tickets.  Generally speaking the demand has obviously sagged quite a bit since the three-peat days.  That said, they still sell out almost every game.  LA is a crazy place and there are always people visiting here from other states and countries that want to see the Lakers and they go through a broker, or stubhub, or ebay to get the tix.  Last season, the seats next to me were owned by a brokerage or someone who sold every game and I met quite a few foriegners and people from out of town who came just for that game.  Point is, it's a very deep marketplace so you've got that going for you. 

If it were me, I wouldn't want to go through the hassle of selling 38 games, just to see 5 for free.  First off, 2 of the 43 are preseason games, so you can write those off b/c they're hard to even give away.  Unless you can unload all 38 at once to a broker above face (which I doubt), I wouldn't do it.  That's just my $0.02 ... that and $1.50 might get you a cup of coffee! 

[msc]

Too late now, all the big trades have been made.  Kobe can't go anywhere, and the Lakers probably can't find any team willing to give them value for him.

The Lakers as they are now will likely miss the playoffs- but this depends on the teams around their level in the west improving enough to keep them out.

Next year will be a different story,  the Lakers have that long to add players or figure out a deal that lets them end the Kobe era in good shape.

Some of you are giving Kobe too much credit.  It's clear he didn't think before speaking and put the Lakers into a bad spot- which is just plain STUPID.  If he really wanted to be traded he should have talked to mgmt. on the quiet.  Going public made it that much harder to get a deal done.

Meanwhile the Lakers aren't doing anything to make the team better and probably can't do to much anyway- no one else of real value to trade, no-one other than Jermaine O'Neil to get. Bird won't bend over to help the Lakers, you all know that!

I actually agree with almost everything you said in this post. 

Everything except "The Lakers as they are now will likely miss the playoffs- but this depends on the teams around their level in the west improving enough to keep them out." 

The Lakers basically have the same, if not slightly better, squad as they did the past two years and they made the playoffs each of those years.  Obviously they're not likely getting anywhere close to the second round, but I'd say the will likely make the playoffs this year. 

[JoMal]

This is as basic as it gets. This is why I can not stand Kobe Bryant. And this is also why I have stated over and over that the Lakers will NOT flourish again in the playoffs until they get rid of Bryant.

Bryant is unquestionably a great player, so let's just get that out of the way and forget about it for now.

Bryant is never going to be the team player his talent dictates he should be. He is not going to be the player he should be to improve his team. He is not going to ever take the responsibility on himself to perceive why the Laker front office is having such a hard time filling in the roster around him. Instead, he will continue to blame the Lakers for failing to provide talent that he, Bryant, is keeping away from the Lakers by being, well, Kobe. Who wants a teammate like Kobe Bryant for very long?

The constant "saga" surrounding him is like an albatross. It wears on you. Who would take on this problem and relish the opportunity? Let's say, the Clippers, who are never serious enough about winning to be concerned with THAT huge responsibility. But if they could take the thunder of Staples away from the Lakers, they would do that in a New York minute.

Then the 'other' LA team will be constantly defending itself for not 'improving' the team, according to Bryant, once again preventing him from showing off in the deep playoffs. It will once again be management's fault for his perceived failings. But unlike the Lakers, who actually DO have a proud heretige to maintain (another reason to dump Kobe ASAP!!), the Clippers do not, so would be well-suited to nod in agreement with Kobe and make useless trades that never seem to quite do the trick.

[WayOutWest]

Bryant is never going to be the team player his talent dictates he should be. He is not going to be the player he should be to improve his team.

Of course he can't be the "team player" cause there isn't much of a team around him.

He is not going to ever take the responsibility on himself to perceive why the Laker front office is having such a hard time filling in the roster around him. Instead, he will continue to blame the Lakers for failing to provide talent that he, Bryant, is keeping away from the Lakers by being, well, Kobe. Who wants a teammate like Kobe Bryant for very long?

You can't make assumptions about why the Lakers can't make moves, if we stick to facts the TRUTH is the Lakers have not added any decent talent since Shaq's departure.  For whatever reason the Lakers are failing just like Kobe said, my problem is he said those things publicly.

[JoMal]

Bryant is never going to be the team player his talent dictates he should be. He is not going to be the player he should be to improve his team.

Of course he can't be the "team player" cause there isn't much of a team around him.

He is not going to ever take the responsibility on himself to perceive why the Laker front office is having such a hard time filling in the roster around him. Instead, he will continue to blame the Lakers for failing to provide talent that he, Bryant, is keeping away from the Lakers by being, well, Kobe. Who wants a teammate like Kobe Bryant for very long?

You can't make assumptions about why the Lakers can't make moves, if we stick to facts the TRUTH is the Lakers have not added any decent talent since Shaq's departure.  For whatever reason the Lakers are failing just like Kobe said, my problem is he said those things publicly.

And that is the whole point. He DOES take it publically, making it seem that whatever the Laker management does, it is in response to what Kobe dictates to them, and any player getting brought into the Laker realm is only there to please Kobe, so he comes in with issues right off the bat.

Laker pride should be way above getting Kobe out of there by now.

[westkoast]

Bryant is never going to be the team player his talent dictates he should be. He is not going to be the player he should be to improve his team.

Of course he can't be the "team player" cause there isn't much of a team around him.

He is not going to ever take the responsibility on himself to perceive why the Laker front office is having such a hard time filling in the roster around him. Instead, he will continue to blame the Lakers for failing to provide talent that he, Bryant, is keeping away from the Lakers by being, well, Kobe. Who wants a teammate like Kobe Bryant for very long?

You can't make assumptions about why the Lakers can't make moves, if we stick to facts the TRUTH is the Lakers have not added any decent talent since Shaq's departure.  For whatever reason the Lakers are failing just like Kobe said, my problem is he said those things publicly.

And that is the whole point. He DOES take it publically, making it seem that whatever the Laker management does, it is in response to what Kobe dictates to them, and any player getting brought into the Laker realm is only there to please Kobe, so he comes in with issues right off the bat.

Laker pride should be way above getting Kobe out of there by now.

JoMaL how long have you been under that rock you call home?  Star players have dictated things management does for a very long time now.   It's going over a decade now.   Do you remember a Michael Jordan and the Wizards?  What about Shaq with the Magic?  What about Shaq when he got to the Heat that first year and didn't win the title?  Better yet how about Shaq when the Jazz were smacking us around in the playoffs year after year?   Would you like me to toss other names out there?   Didn't AI try to force Philly's hand because they couldn't get him the talent he needed?  What about Scottie Pippen in Portland?   Or are you selectively forgetting how many times star players have caused a fuss only to get their way?     Believe me we are plenty sick of hearing the media cover anytime a Laker so much as farts in the direction of downtown like a massive event.  That is just how things work out here with all celebrities.

Laker pride is why everyone wants him to stay and the organization to make moves to improve the team.  Not the other way around.  You don't give up the best perimeter player in the league because some guy up north has a personal vendetta against him.

[rickortreat]

Bryant is never going to be the team player his talent dictates he should be. He is not going to be the player he should be to improve his team.

Of course he can't be the "team player" cause there isn't much of a team around him.

He is not going to ever take the responsibility on himself to perceive why the Laker front office is having such a hard time filling in the roster around him. Instead, he will continue to blame the Lakers for failing to provide talent that he, Bryant, is keeping away from the Lakers by being, well, Kobe. Who wants a teammate like Kobe Bryant for very long?

You can't make assumptions about why the Lakers can't make moves, if we stick to facts the TRUTH is the Lakers have not added any decent talent since Shaq's departure.  For whatever reason the Lakers are failing just like Kobe said, my problem is he said those things publicly.

And that is the whole point. He DOES take it publically, making it seem that whatever the Laker management does, it is in response to what Kobe dictates to them, and any player getting brought into the Laker realm is only there to please Kobe, so he comes in with issues right off the bat.

Laker pride should be way above getting Kobe out of there by now.

Kobe is frustrated by the Lakers inability, to make anything happen.  He knows his window won't last forever, and he does not want to play out the string with the Lakers.  I think in the right circumstances Kobe could be a great team player.  I understand his ego and all of that, but no one can question his desire to win.  I also think he has the ability to change and improve himself as a person, and will continue to grow in the future.

It would be best for him if the Lakers made something happen.  And probably better for the Lakers as well.  Kobe does not want to be like Reggie hanging around for a shot to get another ring.  He wants to be the leader on a contender for the Championship to demonstrate his talent and team ability. As much as I dislike some of the things he says when he is in the limelight, it is a waste to squander his talent as the Lakers have of late.

[Lurker]

He wants to be the leader on a contender for the Championship to demonstrate his talent and team ability. As much as I dislike some of the things he says when he is in the limelight, it is a waste to squander his talent as the Lakers have of late.

A leader doesn't trash teammates publicly.

A leader works WITH not against management to improve the organization.

A leader does not lead by using a me-first attitude.

Kobe has a long, long way to go to become a leader.  He may be the best talent on the floor but he is NOT a leader.  All you have to do is follow team USA...Kobe is the top talent, Kidd is the leader.

[JoMal]

Kobe is frustrated by the Lakers inability, to make anything happen.  He knows his window won't last forever, and he does not want to play out the string with the Lakers.  I think in the right circumstances Kobe could be a great team player.  I understand his ego and all of that, but no one can question his desire to win.  I also think he has the ability to change and improve himself as a person, and will continue to grow in the future.

;lol

Oh, you were serious.