What is up with this Spurs trade!?

[Reality]

WOW!  I read that little article and find no where that it says the Spurs made $40 million.  Being somewhat financially challenged as a CPA, I see operating income of just $11 million which ranks 15th in the NBA.  And if the Spurs weren't so fiscally responsible then it would be lower.   And then there is this little disclosure about operating income:

Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization.

I would be more impressed if you could show me their net cash flow, or distributions to the various owners (Spurs have approx 30 owners).  And 4 "major" corporate sponsers don't buy 30 luxury boxes.  Try comparing the Spurs corporate support to that of Chicago, LA (2 teams), NY, or most of the other larger cities.

EBITDA is just a sneakly little accounting tool.  Earnings on what is the real question.
Revenues for 2005 Spurs was 122 million.  Per the CBA NBA salaries are supposed to be 51-55% of revenue, which they were at 67 million.  That leaves a 55 million pot.  To get down to 11 million you would have to subtract 44 million bucks.  No way no how the Spurs have 44 million dollars worth of expenses.  If they do, lets see it.  I also would like to see net cash flow, or distributions to the owner(s) but guess what, corps like the NBA and the Spurs get to keep that hidden.

Maybe you should stick to talking basketball...obviously you know even less about finances.  Where to start?

How about the simple fact that the Spurs (and the NBA for that matter) are NOT corporations.

Maybe that most organizations have at least 2 or 3 (or 30-40) more employees than just the players.

Maybe some money is spent on uniforms, travel, advertising, medicine/trainer supplies, utilities, a practice facility, basketballs, retirement plans, community relations, etc.

And if you want to talk accounting tricks...is that revenue number based on actual cash receipts, accrual items or maybe deferred revenue which was received in earlier years (naming rights) but recognized over several years. 

All ears brainiac.  Tell me how uniforms, travel etc came out to 44 million.
You're a good little accounting sheep.
And the Spurs are not a corp.  Okay.  An LLC?  Does that affect their ability to be able to hide expenses?  No it doesnt.

[Lurker]

All ears brainiac.  Tell me how uniforms, travel etc came out to 44 million.
You're a good little accounting sheep.
And the Spurs are not a corp.  Okay.  An LLC?  Does that affect their ability to be able to hide expenses?  No it doesnt.

As YOU already pointed out a privately owned organization is not required to report their financial information.  Which then brings into question how accurate are the numbers that Forbes reported.

As far as the $44 million...go price a private jet along with operating costs.  Or maybe a coaching staff that alone gets paid probably $4-5 million.  Try pricing 20-25 hotel rooms in some of the nicer hotels for 45 nights a year. 

[Reality]

50 rooms 60 nights a year (playoffs) @ $150 per night.
412K

Lets just round it up to a million.

That leaves 43 million.

[Lurker]

50 rooms 60 nights a year (playoffs) @ $150 per night.
412K

Lets just round it up to a million.

That leaves 43 million.

I don't believe they stay in a Motel 6.  Check out the rates for Hilton, Hyatt, Westin, etc in the downtown areas of NY, LA, Chicago, Philly, Miami, Atlanta, Dallas, Phoenix, etc.

I know in SA the hotels that visiting teams stay at run $300-450 per night.

[Reality]

50 rooms 60 nights a year (playoffs) @ $150 per night.
412K

Lets just round it up to a million.

That leaves 43 million.

I don't believe they stay in a Motel 6.  Check out the rates for Hilton, Hyatt, Westin, etc in the downtown areas of NY, LA, Chicago, Philly, Miami, Atlanta, Dallas, Phoenix, etc.

I know in SA the hotels that visiting teams stay at run $300-450 per night.

  CPA, which part of this did you miss?

50 rooms 60 nights a year (playoffs) @ $150 per night.
412K

Lets just round it up to a million.

50 rooms (you suggested 20-25)
60 nights (you suggested 45)
412K total.  Even then i said lets round it off to a million.

Stop dodging and account for the other 43 million.

[westkoast]

50 rooms 60 nights a year (playoffs) @ $150 per night.
412K

Lets just round it up to a million.

That leaves 43 million.

Not that it inflates the number all much but they are not staying in 150 per night rooms.  That is on some Hilton Garden Inn, Mariott Courtyard rates for Corporate travelers.  Certain areas, like Seattle, cost more to stay in then being in a place like Denver.

How are you asking for anyone to itemize what they spend their money on when we probably don't know the half of it?  Seems kind of silly to make such a weak assumption based on ONE thing they spend money on.  If we are playing the assumption game then I am going to assume  they would spend more on having new shoes and uniforms for each player for each game then they would on staying at a hotel room anyways.

I am pretty sure they have many more expenses you have no idea about so it's better to just let this debate die.

[Lurker]

How are you asking for anyone to itemize what they spend their money on when we probably don't know the half of it?  Seems kind of silly to make such a weak assumption based on ONE thing they spend money on. 

He has to make weak assumptions and focus on ONE item.  Otherwise he would have been shut down after the first post and his fingers would fall off due to inactivity.

[Lurker]

From ESPN:

When you combine payroll savings, Vassilis Spanoulis' virtually certain return to Europe and Houston's cash contributions, San Antonio saved an estimated $7 million by trading the draft rights to Argentine power forward Luis Scola and little-used Jackie Butler to Houston on Thursday.

The Spurs were hoping to send Scola out of their conference -- as part of a three-way trade with the Kings and Cavs that would have landed Scola and Bibby in Cleveland before collapsing Thursday -- but decided that the financial benefits were too significant to keep Scola away from the neighboring Rockets.

Not exactly chicken scratch...

[Reality]

How are you asking for anyone to itemize what they spend their money on when we probably don't know the half of it?  Seems kind of silly to make such a weak assumption based on ONE thing they spend money on. 

He has to make weak assumptions and focus on ONE item.  Otherwise he would have been shut down after the first post and his fingers would fall off due to inactivity.

You bring it up then try to spin it back on me when you can't back up your bullcrap?

Try pricing 20-25 hotel rooms in some of the nicer hotels for 45 nights a year.   

What a wimp out.

[Reality]

From ESPN:

When you combine payroll savings, Vassilis Spanoulis' virtually certain return to Europe and Houston's cash contributions, San Antonio saved an estimated $7 million by trading the draft rights to Argentine power forward Luis Scola and little-used Jackie Butler to Houston on Thursday.

The Spurs were hoping to send Scola out of their conference -- as part of a three-way trade with the Kings and Cavs that would have landed Scola and Bibby in Cleveland before collapsing Thursday -- but decided that the financial benefits were too significant to keep Scola away from the neighboring Rockets.

Not exactly chicken scratch...

  Exactly.  Nothing about making the Spurs better, nothing about not helping Houston, but for "the financials benefits."

[westkoast]

From ESPN:

When you combine payroll savings, Vassilis Spanoulis' virtually certain return to Europe and Houston's cash contributions, San Antonio saved an estimated $7 million by trading the draft rights to Argentine power forward Luis Scola and little-used Jackie Butler to Houston on Thursday.

The Spurs were hoping to send Scola out of their conference -- as part of a three-way trade with the Kings and Cavs that would have landed Scola and Bibby in Cleveland before collapsing Thursday -- but decided that the financial benefits were too significant to keep Scola away from the neighboring Rockets.

Not exactly chicken scratch...

  Exactly.  Nothing about making the Spurs better, nothing about not helping Houston, but for "the financials benefits."

Roster spot open....7 million to go out to sign a player.....

Maybe you should wait before you get mad that they got rid of a player you wanted to predict as the next Tim Duncan before you saw him play in the NBA.

[Reality]

Roster spot open....7 million to go out to sign a player.....

Maybe you should wait before you get mad that they got rid of a player you wanted to predict as the next Tim Duncan before you saw him play in the NBA.

  While you and Cousin Lurkerandy are twistin the night away, i agree there is still plenty to come.  Barry and Beno are possibilities.

[westkoast]

Why do some teams play in more than one summer league? It doesn't seem fair that all teams don't play the same number of summer league games.
-- Richie Peters, Kingsport, Tenn.

The NBA doesn't limit the number of leagues a team joins or how many games it plays. It's up to each club to decide how it wants to use its offseason. These teams must pay their own way, however, and cost can be a factor. The Raptors, for example, did not field a squad at the Las Vegas Summer League this season. Because Toronto did not have any draft picks this year -- thus, no rookies who needed playing time -- GM Bryan Colangelo decided it wasn't worth the roughly $250,000 expense.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds like things are not quite so cheap even playing in a summer league.

[Reality]

"...it did little for the Spurs other than reduce their payroll and open up a roster spot. The trade removed the $2.4 million Butler was due to make this season, and the Spurs also might not have to pay Spanoulis the $1.9 million he is slated to earn."

This is exactly the reason for the move...save $$$ and open roster spot.  Also the Spurs were afraid that Scola would sign another long term deal in Europe and then they would get nothing for him.  So far the Spurs are impressed with the defensive effort of the rookie from Arizona (or Az State?).  Also they have their first rounder from last year that they are trying to put on the roster.  Both will probably spend a lot of time in Austin (NBDL) but will also get court time with the Spurs in practice.

But then any TRUE follower of the Spurs would be aware of such things.   

Memories.....
Scola for Spanoulis