Author Topic: The Sacramento Arena Thread.  (Read 4476 times)

Offline JoMal

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The Sacramento Arena Thread.
« on: July 10, 2007, 11:57:05 AM »
How do I put this...... ???

Okay, here's the thing. David Stern apparently was serious when he told the media he planned on getting the League involved in the impasse over building a new arena for the Kings......in Sacramento.

How serious? Bizarrely serious.

For the first time in League history (NBA League history, anyway), Stern has evidently approved a low interest loan - League money, mind you - to fund the construction of an arena in SacTown, probably on land currently being used by Cal Expo. No official announcement will be made on this until the fall, but a cagey local reporter named Steve Large got a League office off-the-record admittance to this accord. It has yet to be approved by other owners, so it is still technically being negotiated and nobody can say anything about it yet.

The Maloof's and/or the City will be required to repay the loan, of course, but no doubt on very favorable terms. The number that was mentioned was $720 million.

I'm a billionaire and I don't care,
My hands' in the pockets of fans so fair.
I cut down trees, to make more cheese
I wee on them faith-ful-leeee.

He's a billionaire and he don't care,
His hands in the pockets of fans so fair.
He cuts down trees, to make more cheese,
and wees on them faith-ful-leeee.

I sob to the commissioner that I'm so poor,
I sop up my whiz with Eva Gabor.
I need tax breaks, and something more,
An arena that's all paid foooorrr.

He sobbed to the commissioner that he's so poor,
He sopped up his whiz with Eva Gabor.
He needs tax breaks, and something more,
An arena that's all paid foooorrr.



Monty Python has nothing on me.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline Reality

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Re: The Sacramento Arena Thread.
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2007, 12:29:48 PM »
The Maloof's and/or the City will be required to repay the loan, of course, but no doubt on very favorable terms. The number that was mentioned was $720 million.
  Indoor plumbing and all?  Will you be providing the halftime musical entertainment?

Offline JoMal

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Re: The Sacramento Arena Thread.
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2007, 12:44:42 PM »
   Will you be providing the halftime musical entertainment?

Every night if they let me sing the Lumberjack song with the new lyrics.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline westkoast

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Re: The Sacramento Arena Thread.
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2007, 12:52:10 PM »
Boy is this league making wayyyy too much money now.  Financing a 700+ million dollar loan?

I don't know if it is a good or bad thing.  I mean it sounds good for the loyal Sac-Town fans who will get state of the art facilities but how does it effect the area it is being built on?  You know as far as traffic and other small businesses around Arco go....
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Offline JoMal

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Re: The Sacramento Arena Thread.
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2007, 01:47:18 PM »
Boy is this league making wayyyy too much money now.  Financing a 700+ million dollar loan?

I don't know if it is a good or bad thing.  I mean it sounds good for the loyal Sac-Town fans who will get state of the art facilities but how does it effect the area it is being built on?  You know as far as traffic and other small businesses around Arco go....

This will no doubt be debated by the good folks at City Hall regarding the impact on the area.

It seems that Sacramento is loaded with people who absolutely despise any change at all. who really want SacTown to have cattle drives down K Street, and expect the city to stop allowing people to, like, move into the area. There were plans to put canals and walkways all through the railyard project where the Sacramento and American rivers converge - 240 acres of old rail yards waiting for development. But someone piped up that a person could, you know, fall into a canal and drown. So the whole plan got nixed.

What I think, is that in order for Darwin's Theory to work, you have to let those idiots likely to fall into a slow moving canal and drown to do it, for the good of the rest of humanity.

At any rate, the Cal Expo location is along the American River, and plans are to move the zoo near there, plus other attractions, which would be directly across from that rail yard project. It sounds too good to be true for this city because it actually is a good idea, and most Sacramentans despise good ideas for this city.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline Lurker

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Re: The Sacramento Arena Thread.
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2007, 01:51:27 PM »
IMO this will set a dangerous precedent.  Why Sacramento?  Will they do the same for Seattle?  How about another small market team in the next 3-5 years? 

Or does this really have nothing to do with Sacramento and more to do with keeping the Maloofs from moving to Vegas?

It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave.  Keep on thinking free.
-Moody Blues

Offline JoMal

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Re: The Sacramento Arena Thread.
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2007, 02:00:42 PM »

Or does this really have nothing to do with Sacramento and more to do with keeping the Maloofs from moving to Vegas?



Actually, that was exactly what I was thinking.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline westkoast

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Re: The Sacramento Arena Thread.
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2007, 03:06:29 PM »
But I thought a team can't go there until all the shot callers in Vegas decide to keep people from being able to bet onl the team at all?  I thought that was what shot down the whole idea of moving them a couple of months back?
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Offline JoMal

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Re: The Sacramento Arena Thread.
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2007, 03:20:05 PM »
But I thought a team can't go there until all the shot callers in Vegas decide to keep people from being able to bet onl the team at all?  I thought that was what shot down the whole idea of moving them a couple of months back?

For moral reasons, this has been 'understood' by all teams in all Leagues, but those barriers may not be in place forever. The Maloofs are pretty powerful people, who know how to maneuver their way through those things, and Stern knows it. If he really does not want the Maloofs to ever think about moving the team there, a good way to do that is to make them a very attractive alternative for keeping the team in Sacramento.

Seattle is a different story. I get the feeling that the city is not all that interested in keeping the Sonics around, and they have other diversions up there, including the very popular Seahawks and Mariners. So Stern, who sees Sacramento as a growing market that would benefit the League, is willing to do something here, while letting the Sonic team relocate to a very similar place - Oklahoma City.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline Reality

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Re: The Sacramento Arena Thread.
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2007, 03:22:34 PM »
Stern wants to maintain the appearance that gambling money has never affected NBA games, which of course we know it never has.  If an NBA team was in Vegas, Sternfish claims it would be too close to the gambling centers.  Because we know gambling "lobbyists" have never traveled outside of Vegas to attempt to influence refs, coaches or players.

On the subject of stadiums, have Chardyuks owners or Billy Gates Inc monopolists ever commented on their own participation in a new stadium?

Offline rickortreat

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Re: The Sacramento Arena Thread.
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2007, 03:29:45 PM »
It's a good deal for Sactown fans if the NBA is willing to finance the arena.  It doesn't make financial sense for the NBA to subsidize one owner over the others. If I was a league owner, I'd be crying foul over this.  It's not like the Maloofs couldn't afford to build the stadium, they wanted the concessions out of greed.

This really doesn't make sense for the NBA- they shouldn't subsidize the owners and it's not like Sactown is such a critical NBA market anyway.

Offline JoMal

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Re: The Sacramento Arena Thread.
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2007, 04:13:24 PM »
It's a good deal for Sactown fans if the NBA is willing to finance the arena.  It doesn't make financial sense for the NBA to subsidize one owner over the others. If I was a league owner, I'd be crying foul over this.  It's not like the Maloofs couldn't afford to build the stadium, they wanted the concessions out of greed.


I thought ALL owners want such things as concessions and parking out of greed. What's your point?

And it also makes some sense for the League to do this, considering it would be an investment and they would expect to be paid back over time, though at a favorable interest rate to the city of Sacramento. I am not yet including the Maloofs in this idea because the loan would be to the city, not the owners, who would be able to rent out the arena like any other party could.

What would be interesting is how much money the Maloofs would be willing to put up as well, as they are on record as saying they would invest a Sacramento arena - I believe in the neighborhood of $100 million. They are most interested in the building of a parking garage next to the arena, from which they would collect all the revenue. I think they would need to bid on running the concessions, but I have no doubt they would get that contract.

Quote
This really doesn't make sense for the NBA- they shouldn't subsidize the owners and it's not like Sactown is such a critical NBA market anyway.


In this opinion, you are clearly in the minority. From the start, Stern has stated that it was of great interest to the League that the Sacramento market remain in the NBA. You could argue about their reasoning behind this, but the fact is Stern likes the Kings in Sacramento and clearly plans to do whatever he can to keep them there.

What should be of more concern is why he and the League don't feel the same about Seattle.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2007, 04:18:36 PM by JoMal »
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline rickortreat

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Re: The Sacramento Arena Thread.
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2007, 04:38:38 PM »
Sacramento isn't a top ten market- it's not even in the top 20.  If the NBA wants a team there, the reasoning is quite elusive.

That is, unless it's because the Maloofs want to go to Vegas, but it seems to me that the league could say- if you move to Vegas, you're out of the league!

But how is this desirable for the NBA, to subsidize the financing of an Arena?  Should every city with an owner with a yen for a new stadium get the same deal? Could the NBA afford that? What about all the teams that recently made their own deals and built new stadiums, like the Sixers? 

How will Stern sell this to the other owners, and how will they react.  Does this mean that any City that stonewalls will now be able to get cheap financing from the NBA, or just a select few. 

The way the Kings are these days, it's not like they're such a hot commodity either.

Offline westkoast

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Re: The Sacramento Arena Thread.
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2007, 04:56:09 PM »
I don't think his reasoning is elusive.  IMO the reason he likes the Spurs and Kings to grow is because it proves that small market teams can establish good sized and very loyal fan bases.  LA may have many many more fans then Sac-Town but it's not LA or NY who hold attendance records.  It is places like Arco Arena.  If he gives other owners the idea that small market teams can make it and be very profitable it will only benefit the league when they invest more into their own franchises in smaller markets. 

Having 19k fans show up for every home game for 4 years is better then having 50k fickle fans who only fill seats up when their team is winning.  Not saying LA doesn't have die hard fans that spend money either or (just ask my bank account lol) but it is more consistent in places like Arco Arena.  You have to think in smaller markets there is less to do and if you can get going to an NBA game to be the hot ticket it means a lot to the league.  In Sacramento for example it's go to the rodeo, tip cows, or go to a Kings game.  A lot of people chose to do something fun and go to Arco Arena...over and over and over again.

Wonderful song btw JoMaL Logan.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2007, 05:02:29 PM by westkoast »
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Offline JoMal

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Re: The Sacramento Arena Thread.
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2007, 05:50:57 PM »
Sacramento isn't a top ten market- it's not even in the top 20.  If the NBA wants a team there, the reasoning is quite elusive.

That is, unless it's because the Maloofs want to go to Vegas, but it seems to me that the league could say- if you move to Vegas, you're out of the league!

But how is this desirable for the NBA, to subsidize the financing of an Arena?  Should every city with an owner with a yen for a new stadium get the same deal? Could the NBA afford that? What about all the teams that recently made their own deals and built new stadiums, like the Sixers? 

How will Stern sell this to the other owners, and how will they react.  Does this mean that any City that stonewalls will now be able to get cheap financing from the NBA, or just a select few. 

The way the Kings are these days, it's not like they're such a hot commodity either.

While it might be true that SacTown is not in the top twenty metropolitan areas, it is in the top twenty-five, and since the League has thirty franchises, there has to be some smaller-then-Sacramento areas supporting teams, as they currently are in Charlotte, Indianapolis, Memphis, Milwaukie, New Orleans, (potentially Oklahoma City), Orlando, Salt Lake City, and San Antonio, while larger areas, most notably Cincinatti, Pittsburg, St. Louis, San Diego, (potentially Seattle), and Tampa Bay do not, or soon won't, even have NBA teams to support. Two others, Kansas City and Las Vegas, are smaller then Sacramento, but one once had the Kings and the other would like to have them. And you also might note that one of the larger areas that no longer has an NBA team - Cincinatti - once had the Kings as well.

The difference is that the fan support in SacTown shakes the rafters. It is something other arenas all envy and with good reason. The same franchise was ignored in Cincinatti and Kansas City, and now is desired by Las Vegas, but the thing is, you need that fan support to really be palatable for it to work out as it has here. 

But you can't even begin to view the Sacramento Kings by limiting their fanbase to just the metropolitan area around Arco. Like the Utah Jazz, and I imagine the Spurs, the Kings are supported by a much larger area of people, stretching hundreds of miles to the north and east, and all up and down the northern part of the Central Valley, adding millions of people to this fan support.

That is a very large market to consider, and though not in LA's or NY's size category, or even Philadelphia's, this market, unlike the Sixers, is booming upwards, meaning it certainly has an impact.

In other words, rick, while the Kings are in for some down years, the unyielding potential for growth in the Sacramento area certainly makes having a franchise in this region a much more prized possession to the League then watching the dying throes of Philadelphia as the rust belt bleeds away its population.

Apparently, Stern feels it is worth making the effort to do so. But there is clearly more to it then just keeping the Kings where they are. I would view this as an experiment, where it might lead the League to step in at other times to save a franchise if everyone in the area (certainly true in Sacramento) really wants the team to stay, but can not manage the finances.

BTW, do not compare what has happened in Sacramento to how things get done in your city or how they were done in Memphis. California does not have the same laws that allow easier financing to occur without a huge corporate base, and Sacramento's biggest company is the State of California, so it is very unlikely they will get any money from them.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."