Ray Allen: Prophet

[jn]

I look forward to calling the Ray Ray psychic hot line.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/195189_sonx14.html

[westkoast]

Too bad you can picture him talking with a bitter beer face for 90% of this  ...

""I think the point production is not going to be so much what people are going to look at because (Tracy) McGrady did it in Orlando, Allen (Iverson) did it in Philly. Can you win a championship? I think that's the question. Carrying guys on your back and making everybody better.""

This was somewhat on point but Kobe's scoring ability is more impressive then those two IMO.  As far as can you win a championship...should all this be coming from Ray Allen?  If Lebron, Wade, Shaq, Duncan, Bowen, or someone who has actually sniffed the title in the past 10 years but Ray Allen?  Makes him look like an even bigger moron.

[WayOutWest]

Too bad you can picture him talking with a bitter beer face for 90% of this  ...

""I think the point production is not going to be so much what people are going to look at because (Tracy) McGrady did it in Orlando, Allen (Iverson) did it in Philly. Can you win a championship? I think that's the question. Carrying guys on your back and making everybody better.""

This was somewhat on point but Kobe's scoring ability is more impressive then those two IMO.  As far as can you win a championship...should all this be coming from Ray Allen?  If Lebron, Wade, Shaq, Duncan, Bowen, or someone who has actually sniffed the title in the past 10 years but Ray Allen?  Makes him look like an even bigger moron.

Reminds me of the shot Nash took at Barkley, when Nash was told by a report about why Nash's Dallas team couldn't win a title because blah blah blah, Nash said what does Charles know about winning a championship.  LOL!

[JoMal]

You know, whenever somebody comes out and talks about Kobe Bryant and the Lakers and, as Allen did in this interview, predict exactly what will happen based on HIS personal observations about him - and face it, who would know about this better? A guy who has actually been bumped by Kobe during a game or you guys - every time you come back with what would HE know, he hasn't won anything makes it sound so defensive. That is a copout putdown and unworthy.

Besides, what has Kobe won since Shaq left, which was Allen point, if you want to to nickpick about championships?

 

[Reality]

^ Yes and I took it as Allen would know what it's like to be .500 without a good center.
One .500 shooting guard talking to another.
*Altho i consider Allen a me player also.

[rickortreat]

He's dead-on with his predictions, so apparently he DOES know what he's talking about.

But of course Laker posters aren't interested in the truth about Kobe, or the franchise.

Buss is too busy playing poker to fix the team.

There are a number of other franchises in the NBA that are doing a better job of maintaining a quality product on the floor.  The Spurs are the best in the NBA at doing that, and have been the best franchise for quite some time based on putting a good team out season after season.

Long-term success is a difficult thing to achieve and the Spurs deserve props for that.  LA used to be that way, but clearly aren't anymore.

[WayOutWest]

Wow, I guess I should ask Allen for stock advice, he seems to see the future.  Seems like he was dead on about what was to unfold with Kobe and the Lakers.  If I had read the "trade me" line when this story was out I would have laughed my arse off, I'm still surprised Kobe made those comments last week.

FYI, no franchise in ALL of NBA HISTORY has been as as consistent in regards to success as the Lakers.  I don't know how many times the haters need to be set strait on the history of the Lakers and their place in NBA history.  Read it and weep.

[westkoast]

You know, whenever somebody comes out and talks about Kobe Bryant and the Lakers and, as Allen did in this interview, predict exactly what will happen based on HIS personal observations about him - and face it, who would know about this better? A guy who has actually been bumped by Kobe during a game or you guys - every time you come back with what would HE know, he hasn't won anything makes it sound so defensive. That is a copout putdown and unworthy.

Besides, what has Kobe won since Shaq left, which was Allen point, if you want to to nickpick about championships?

 

JoMaL actually what makes it sound so defensive is the fact that when this came out Ray had made alot of comments about Kobe in the media after a game.  Some of us younger posters can remember 3 years ago when this happened.  They had a 'beef'.  Ray Allen is known for crying and crying, similar to what he did with Bowen, for weeks on end about petty things.

Second...could you tell us all the Laker posters on this website who predicted the Lakers would win a championship with the squad after Shaq left?  I'll wait for the list.  His predictions that Kobe would have to score alot of points because there is no second legit scoring option is of nostradamus proportions...regardless if our own resident posters have all said the same things.

As for nitpicking championships...Really if Kobe has won them without Shaq or not is besides the point.  He still knows what it takes to win a championship  because he has  a few and Ray Allen has none.  If Ray Allen knew how to take a team to the championship then why hasn't he done anything but allow the Sonics the ability to grab Durant?  That is where it sounds bitter and idiotic.  Now if Manu was taking shots at Kobe about championships then it makes more sense.  Manu knows what it takes to win a championship.  This is not speculation from his home in SA, it would be solid facts.

Rick if Ray Allen was talking down to AI about what it takes to get to the finals I think you would be singing a different tune saying 'AI has taken his team to the finals and Allen has not'  Of course since this is Kobe this is expected.

[JoMal]

If this prediction was strictly about winning championships, okay. But it wasn't. I was about how Kobe would react to playing without Shag and on that Allen was dead on.

Commenting about who has won a championship and who has not does not preclude Ray Allen, or any of the rest of us, from talking about how Kobe will play and act on his own.

Focus on his predictions about Bryant and forget about his right to say anything because his organization lacks the acumen to develop a championship team around him like West did for Shaq and Kobe with the Lakers - and having Jackson coaching them as well.

And if you still want to discuss this as a 'winning' championships issues, then talk about how many the Lakers could have won sans O'Neal, or speculate how many championships Seattle would have won if Shaq had spent his prime years playing next to Ray Allen on the Sonics instead of with Kobe Bryant.

I would predict four or more, AND Shaq still being there.

[westkoast]

If this prediction was strictly about winning championships, okay. But it wasn't. I was about how Kobe would react to playing without Shag and on that Allen was dead on.

Commenting about who has won a championship and who has not does not preclude Ray Allen, or any of the rest of us, from talking about how Kobe will play and act on his own.

Focus on his predictions about Bryant and forget about his right to say anything because his organization lacks the acumen to develop a championship team around him like West did for Shaq and Kobe with the Lakers - and having Jackson coaching them as well.

And if you still want to discuss this as a 'winning' championships issues, then talk about how many the Lakers could have won sans O'Neal, or speculate how many championships Seattle would have won if Shaq had spent his prime years playing next to Ray Allen on the Sonics instead of with Kobe Bryant.

I would predict four or more, AND Shaq still being there.

As an NBA player if you speak about winning championships then you need to win a championship.  We are not in the position to do so as fans JoMaL and we don't truly know what it takes to be an NBA player let alone a championship caliber player.  His predictions are not any different then what has been said around here...by yes, even Laker fans. 

Must be getting a little high in the afternoon if you think Ray Allen and Shaq would have won 4 championships together.  Never once in Ray Allen's life has he tore up teams on the road in the playoffs.  Ray Allen is a step above Peja.  That is it.  He has not shown he can win games in the finals by himself (Indiana and Pistons series)  let alone playoff games by himself.  Either you have some awesome weed today or you are once again bored.    There is something both you and Ray Allen need to understand....Ray Allen and Kobe are not on the same level.  No matter how much you personally dislike him.  You can continue to lie to yourself and post that but it just is not true.

[rickortreat]

They may not be on the same level, but I agree with JoMal.  If Ray Allen and Shaq were together, they would have won 4 Championships AND would still be together.

Assuming his boss didn't start whining about paying Shaq.

You don't have to have won an NBA Championship to know what it takes.  Knowing what it takes is a lot different than doing it.  I guarantee you the Lakers once knew how to build a Championship team, but they no longer do, or they would have made more progress.

Shaq could win titles with AI, Wade, T-Mac, Kobe, LeBron, Ray Allen, a healthy Gilbert Arenas, maybe even Deron Wlliams, or at least he could have when he was younger.  It's obvious that Shaq was the reason the Lakers won those titles. 

These days in the NBA it takes one to two superstars and solid role players at the other positions to win.  That's a lot less than in the 80's and 90's when you needed 3 stars to win.

And, they've been trying to do this for several years with Kobe now.  Isn't it strange that not one player has "clicked" with Kobe after all this time?  They can't find one player decent enough to play with Kobe, since Shaq left.  That's really pretty bad. 

[JoMal]

Must be getting a little high in the afternoon if you think Ray Allen and Shaq would have won 4 championships together.  Never once in Ray Allen's life has he tore up teams on the road in the playoffs.  Ray Allen is a step above Peja.  That is it.  He has not shown he can win games in the finals by himself (Indiana and Pistons series)  let alone playoff games by himself.  Either you have some awesome weed today or you are once again bored.    There is something both you and Ray Allen need to understand....Ray Allen and Kobe are not on the same level.  No matter how much you personally dislike him.  You can continue to lie to yourself and post that but it just is not true.

Spoked by someone who is completely blinded by their hero.

Kobe is not the team player he thinks he is, and apparently as YOU think he is. Since I never said Allen was better then Kobe, that part of your statement requires no response, I will just say that an Allen and Shaq combo would have been more lasting and probably more successful simply because Allen would have meshed better with uberego Shaq.

But the main reason I pick that success has to do with Lewis, actually. That would be three talents that would have been very hard to defend, and without the notorious ballhogging antics of a Bryant on the team, Allen could have done just what he said and gotten all the team involved and avoid the stress of having to hear about it later from dissatisfied teammates.

But none of this really has to do with the topic at hand. Allen was right in his predictions and he certainly has the right to say those things regardless of how many championship rings he has failed to accumulate. He earned that right by the most tried means of the day - he is an All Star NBA player who faced Bryant on the court - directly, not twenty rows up in the stands.

[westkoast]

JoMaL..

By saying that the tandum of Shaq and Allen would be better then Shaq and Kobe in terms of championships is saying he's better then Kobe.  Kobe was a MAJOR factor in those 3 championships.  You may remember him torching your squad on the road many times in the playoffs.  Not with just jump shots either but by attacking the rim.  Ray Allen has not shown that he could do what Kobe did for the Lakers during the run.  Your bitterness is effecting you from using your bball IQ. 

Now you are going on to talk about Rashard Lewis being on that squad also and that is why they would win more championships?  How far off into marijuanaville do you want to drive?  How did this turn into swapping Ray Allen for Kobe and winning more championships to putting Shaq on the Supersonics and winning championships?

 Not sure why you have selected to ignore where these comments stem from.  He was bitter because their ego's clashed and they had a on court 'beef'.  Ray Allen also has an ego.  This is something that alot of nba players have not something exclusive to Kobe Bryant.  They both felt like they needed to jaw and prove something, it was a typical clash of egos.  Ray Allen is just as bitter as you are towards Kobe.    The difference is he played with Kobe on the court directly - not 20 rows up in the stands or from his couch in Sacramento.

[WayOutWest]

Anyway......

Ray didn't say anything us 60 rows back didn't already know EXCEPT for the "trade me" predictions.  I know I didn't see that comming from Kobe after the Lakers/Buss made Kobe their franchise player.

IMO only T-Mac has the scoring ability of Kobe, Ray is more of a catch and shoot player and could not single handedly destroy teams like the Spurs and Kings when they focused their defense on Shaq.  Also, Ray Ray could not carry the Lakers when Shaq was on the bench the way Kobe did vs Philly and Indiana in the finals. 

It's possible that the Lakers could have won titles with Ray but IMO they only would have won 1 or their 3 but the flip side, Ray and Shaq could have stayed together longer and won a title after the 3peat run.

[Reality]

Anyway......

Ray didn't say anything us 60 rows back didn't already know EXCEPT for the "trade me" predictions. 

Wasn't that the only point the op and Jomal were making?  westkoast do you agree Ray Allen did correctly predict that Kobe would say "trade me" after a couple more .500 seasons?