Author Topic: I hope TD gets suspended for game 6.  (Read 2917 times)

Offline WayOutWest

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I hope TD gets suspended for game 6.
« on: May 17, 2007, 01:13:53 PM »
Saw the tape of Elson getting under cut and TD clearly came off the bench.  IMO TD should be suspended, if I were the Suns I would be burning up the phones to Lord Sternfish to get TD the same medicine that Amare and Diaw got.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: I hope TD gets suspended for game 6.
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2007, 01:24:19 PM »
Saw the tape of Elson getting under cut and TD clearly came off the bench.  IMO TD should be suspended, if I were the Suns I would be burning up the phones to Lord Sternfish to get TD the same medicine that Amare and Diaw got.

And Stern already addressed that...there was no altercation.  No players confronting each other.  As the league said: "Both players got up and went to the other end of the floor."  The rule stated that there must be a altercation.  The rushing of refs and players to the point of impact in the Horry/Nash case defined it as a altercation.  And the rule is designed to keep it from escalating.  There was nothing in the Elson/James play to escalate.

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Offline Joe Vancil

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Re: I hope TD gets suspended for game 6.
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2007, 01:40:00 PM »
Therein lies the problem, though, Lurker.  The rule is designed to KEEP THINGS FROM ESCALATING.

Duncan stepping onto the court *WAS* escalating the situation, even though in the end, the on-court players chose not to go after each other.

Are you suggesting that we blame the Diaw and Stoudemire suspensions on Raja Bell?  Clearly, had he not responded, almost certainly no one would have.  And in that case, Diaw and Stoudemire's actions would have been okay?

If the rule is the rule, and it's purpose is to keep situations from escalating, Duncan broke that rule.

Joe

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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: I hope TD gets suspended for game 6.
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2007, 01:50:29 PM »
Therein lies the problem, though, Lurker.  The rule is designed to KEEP THINGS FROM ESCALATING.

Duncan stepping onto the court *WAS* escalating the situation, even though in the end, the on-court players chose not to go after each other.

Are you suggesting that we blame the Diaw and Stoudemire suspensions on Raja Bell?  Clearly, had he not responded, almost certainly no one would have.  And in that case, Diaw and Stoudemire's actions would have been okay?

If the rule is the rule, and it's purpose is to keep situations from escalating, Duncan broke that rule.



BINGO!

I think Joe V is the only poster on this board that even comes close to my intelect, you don't need to be able to spell intelect in order to posses it btw.

Some days I think so highly of myself that I consider myself in the same league as JoMal.  Do I dare to dream such a dream?
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
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"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline Skandery

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Re: I hope TD gets suspended for game 6.
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2007, 01:54:10 PM »
Let's all read the small section and phrase of the rule that'll keep our star player from not getting suspended.  If this is a black and white rule, let's start treating it as such.  

When Baron Davis took a knee to AK's chest in the midst of poster-sizing him with that spectacular dunk.  Stephen Jackson and Jason Richardson rushed to the scene while Baron inflamed the situation by showing the world his nipples.  Due to the physical nature of the play and the actions of Jackson and Richardson, I label this play an altercation.  I submit the NBA should have suspended Josh Powell, Sarunas Jasikevicius, Adonal Foyle, and Mikael Pietrus for leaving the bench area in reaction to Baron Davis' physical dunk. ...oh yeah and Baron Davis for his overly physical display and flagrant behavior.

The rule is absolutely stupid and bogus.  The NBA had a unique opportunity to refine it into something that makes sense through their interpretations of what happened at the end of Game 4, and waved as the opportunity passed them by.  Stupid, callous, ignorant, and exactly what I've come to expect from the NBA.        
"But guys like us, we don't pay attention to the polls. We know that polls are just a collection of statistics that reflect what people are thinking in 'reality'. And reality has a well-known liberal bias."

Offline Lurker

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Re: I hope TD gets suspended for game 6.
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2007, 01:59:53 PM »
Therein lies the problem, though, Lurker.  The rule is designed to KEEP THINGS FROM ESCALATING.

Duncan stepping onto the court *WAS* escalating the situation, even though in the end, the on-court players chose not to go after each other.

Are you suggesting that we blame the Diaw and Stoudemire suspensions on Raja Bell?  Clearly, had he not responded, almost certainly no one would have.  And in that case, Diaw and Stoudemire's actions would have been okay?

If the rule is the rule, and it's purpose is to keep situations from escalating, Duncan broke that rule.



Was that it, Joe?  Or was he already off the bench celebrating Elson's dunk?  See it is so easy to split hairs.

Look at the video again.  When Duncan is on the court there are 2 players and 2 refs on that side of midcourt.  How would Duncan's actions escalate something when all of the players and 1 ref have run downcourt to keep playing?  Now if all of the players were going at each other under the basket and the refs were stepping in to separate them then I would agree with you.

Therein lies the difference.  In the Elson/James play everyone ran downcourt and the game continued.  No foul called, no stoppage of play, no players running at each other needing to be restrained.  Now apply those same criteria to the Horry/Nash play.  Definate foul called, play was stopped, players ran at each other.  If one can't see the difference in the two situations then all I can do is quote a song "there is none so blind as those who do not see."

If you want to say anytime a player crosses onto the court it is a suspension then I am fine with that.  But then half of every bench in the NBA would be suspended for every other game.  However the rule is very clear...leaving the bench during an altercation is an automatic one game suspension.
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Offline rickortreat

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Re: I hope TD gets suspended for game 6.
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2007, 06:00:00 PM »
Therein lies the problem, though, Lurker.  The rule is designed to KEEP THINGS FROM ESCALATING.

Duncan stepping onto the court *WAS* escalating the situation, even though in the end, the on-court players chose not to go after each other.

Are you suggesting that we blame the Diaw and Stoudemire suspensions on Raja Bell?  Clearly, had he not responded, almost certainly no one would have.  And in that case, Diaw and Stoudemire's actions would have been okay?

If the rule is the rule, and it's purpose is to keep situations from escalating, Duncan broke that rule.



BINGO!

I think Joe V is the only poster on this board that even comes close to my intelect, you don't need to be able to spell intelect in order to posses it btw.

Some days I think so highly of myself that I consider myself in the same league as JoMal.  Do I dare to dream such a dream?

Considering that you don't even know intellect is spelled with 2 l's, you should already know the answer!  And the presumption that you don't know how to spell in order to have an advanced intellect reveals just how inferior you actually are. Not that spelling is intrinsic, but on the way to developing that capacity for understanding, typically one extends inner integrity to all aspects of their behavior.  But, by all means keep on dreaming and aspiring.

Offline rickortreat

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Re: I hope TD gets suspended for game 6.
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2007, 06:25:40 PM »
Let's all read the small section and phrase of the rule that'll keep our star player from not getting suspended.  If this is a black and white rule, let's start treating it as such. 

When Baron Davis took a knee to AK's chest in the midst of poster-sizing him with that spectacular dunk.  Stephen Jackson and Jason Richardson rushed to the scene while Baron inflamed the situation by showing the world his nipples.  Due to the physical nature of the play and the actions of Jackson and Richardson, I label this play an altercation.  I submit the NBA should have suspended Josh Powell, Sarunas Jasikevicius, Adonal Foyle, and Mikael Pietrus for leaving the bench area in reaction to Baron Davis' physical dunk. ...oh yeah and Baron Davis for his overly physical display and flagrant behavior.

The rule is absolutely stupid and bogus.  The NBA had a unique opportunity to refine it into something that makes sense through their interpretations of what happened at the end of Game 4, and waved as the opportunity passed them by.  Stupid, callous, ignorant, and exactly what I've come to expect from the NBA.         

This is the result of lawyers making the rules in a vacuum.  Anytime you see one of your friends hurt, you want to see what happened, how badly hurt they are, who did it and why.  That is human nature.  Passion is integral to pro-sports and the main part of the attraction.  If it was just a ballet with robots- no one would care!

How can you have a game where feelings are so important, and then expect people to act like machines under certain circumstances?  Obviously, there are limits to this behavior.  If anyone watched the final game of the Utah Golden State series, you saw the petulant immature, behavior of Baron Davis and Steven Jackson.  They were given well-deserved technicals for over-reacting to calls by the officials.

Same thing happened to Rasheed Wallace.  Some people just don't know when to just shut up!  And they continue to make the same mistakes over and over again. They may be very-talented athletes, but their lack of self-discipline is appalling.

Do the refs ever make a call where there is NO complaint by either side?  Even stony-faced players like TD thow up their arms when a foul is called on them.  But the difference between TD and Wallace is that TD doesn't say anything offensive, and treats most refs with respect.

It is as though the players take what the refs do personally, as though they were out to get them.  It's comical when you watch it, as you can see the foul, sometimes in slow motion and it's CLEAR there was a foul, and yet the player says "who, me!"  That is at the very least insulting.  It isn't good sportsmanship and it isn't anything for fans to want to emulate.

Referees will never intentionally change the outcome of a game.  That would be the worst thing they could do.  They may miss calls, or even call the foul on the wrong player, but that is because they make mistakes.  Things happen so fast out there that I doubt anyone here could do better.  You don't have the advantage of slow-motion instant replay, and there's no time to look at the tape during the game.

Refs are part of the game, just as the arena, and baskets are.  Arguing can only make matters worse.  This is obvious, yet time and time again, I see players arguing a call while play continues.  The league even put out a rule on this, but if they called a Technical every time someone argued a call. The games would take 4 hours.

See that! The NBA gives it's refs discretion in the interpretation of the rules.  Too bad that Stern and the rest of the NBA wonks are incapable of such discretion themselves!  No one besides Lurker thinks the NBA made the right call with the Suns. Charles Barkley, Steven A. Smith, every poll I saw all said the NBA was wrong to give those suspensions to Amare and Diaw.


Offline Laker Fan

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Re: I hope TD gets suspended for game 6.
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2007, 07:16:07 PM »
Well thought out post Rick (did I just say that?)

However, while I think your made valid arguments in this post (wow!) I might point out that Lurker is not the only one to think Stoudemire and Diaw deserved to be suspended. I have repeatedly stated they deserved it, and deserved this series, Diaw being the argument I made that the rule is too arbitrary and a modified rule might have allowed him to get away with just a fine.

I also believe Bell deserved a suspension and he got away with it big time the way he went after Horry.

You are absolutely correct (double wow!) refs are part of the game and I, like you ( this is scary now!), don't believe for a minute they are out to alter the outcome of games, JoMal's bitter assertions notwithstanding.

It has always blown my mind the way some players take it personally when called for a foul, rare is the case where it is fairly clear that a ref is showing outright bias (such as the Joey Crawford/Tim Duncan situation) to the point where their actions seem to clearly indicate they are out to handicap a teams chances. I have always chocked up blown calls, no calls, bogus calls and the like to human error, superstar favortism, or home cookin' which is to me just human nature, or an incredibly incompetent ref (of which there are certainly no shortages), but to deliberately try to change the outcome? Far more rare a possibility than conspiracy theorists and Kings fans would have you believe.
Dan

Offline JoMal

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Re: I hope TD gets suspended for game 6.
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2007, 07:44:39 PM »

BINGO!

I think Joe V is the only poster on this board that even comes close to my intelect, you don't need to be able to spell intelect in order to posses it btw.

Some days I think so highly of myself that I consider myself in the same league as JoMal.  Do I dare to dream such a dream?

I am very touched. You may call yourself WO(JoMal)W from now on.

And don't mistake a JoMal dreamlike state for LA haze.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline JoMal

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Re: I hope TD gets suspended for game 6.
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2007, 07:57:20 PM »
Well thought out post Rick (did I just say that?)

However, while I think your made valid arguments in this post (wow!) I might point out that Lurker is not the only one to think Stoudemire and Diaw deserved to be suspended. I have repeatedly stated they deserved it, and deserved this series, Diaw being the argument I made that the rule is too arbitrary and a modified rule might have allowed him to get away with just a fine.

I also believe Bell deserved a suspension and he got away with it big time the way he went after Horry.

You are absolutely correct (double wow!) refs are part of the game and I, like you ( this is scary now!), don't believe for a minute they are out to alter the outcome of games, JoMal's bitter assertions notwithstanding.

It has always blown my mind the way some players take it personally when called for a foul, rare is the case where it is fairly clear that a ref is showing outright bias (such as the Joey Crawford/Tim Duncan situation) to the point where their actions seem to clearly indicate they are out to handicap a teams chances. I have always chocked up blown calls, no calls, bogus calls and the like to human error, superstar favortism, or home cookin' which is to me just human nature, or an incredibly incompetent ref (of which there are certainly no shortages), but to deliberately try to change the outcome? Far more rare a possibility than conspiracy theorists and Kings fans would have you believe.

Laker Fan, unlike WOW, you have not reached that zenlike plane of intellect accorded those of us who claim to possess it.

The League clearly gave Bell a pass because it looked pretty bad as it was by the necessary suspensions of Stoudemire and Diaw. The Duncan benchclearing fracus never really happened, so we can assume.........nothing really happened to warrant him getting a similar sentence.

IF... and that is, unfortunately for you, a very big IF....you ever were tp join us on our superior plane of intellect, you would be able to understand all things in ways that we of the fewly chosen only can. There is a Ref school where officials are taught how to turn the tide of a game merely by appearing "incredibly incompetent" at key moments of the game. Later, as they laugh over a brewski at the local refs-only watering hole, these "lame" officials chortle over the lost looks and amazed expressions of the players, coaches, and fans left in the wake of their unprovoked tweets. Often, they mimick these expressions for those zebras unfortunate not to have witnessed it first hand.

Post season awards are handed out for the most bizarre non-calls and whistle-swallowing, for blatant "phantom" foul calls, where the air conditioning would shove a player harder then what actually occurred, and my favorite - the honor for best suppressing out and out guffaws for showing super star favoritism.     

 
« Last Edit: May 17, 2007, 07:59:35 PM by JoMal »
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline Laker Fan

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Re: I hope TD gets suspended for game 6.
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2007, 08:30:54 PM »
Please JoMal, the only thing that hints of intellect in a Kings fans is that at least you are from California. However, you and WOW, with his "intilict" keep on keepin' on with that genius in your own mind thingy, whatever gets you through the night, know what I mean? The mark of genius, intellect, and an almost surreal grasp of Life, the Earth, and Everything is total silence from the possessor of such gifts and so I will abide by that rule lest my elevated plateau paint me the braggadocios boor you seem so comfortable revealing yourself to be.

They also have a class at that ref school called “Stick it to the Queens 101” where they are given careful instructions on how to allow the opponent (usually a Los Angeles based team) an inordinately high number of free-throw; call every opponent's flop a foul against the Queens and chirp their whistle anytime a Queen gets anywhere close to big lumbering centers and greased lighting scoring machines as well as extensive lessons in how to throw the evil eye so as to cause Queen free throw shooters to miss like 300 freebies in a row. Imagine those afore-mentioned suppressed guffaws when it all comes together at a nexus of time when they are able to send the poor Queens home to cry in their warm milk and Ovaltine over why the team of destiny can't get over the hump, little realizing the vile forces of evil aligning against them would never allow such a spirited and awash with talent team the privilege of entering that elite circle of pro's known as NBA Champions

I feel your pain JoMal, wait… no, I don't, all those championship banners hanging in the rafters of Staples Center prevent me from pitying you poor “northerners” foolish enough to root for a team so perfectly centered in the eye of the storm of conspiracy known as the league front office.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2007, 08:49:16 PM by Laker Fan »
Dan

Offline Lurker

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Re: I hope TD gets suspended for game 6.
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2007, 09:53:10 PM »
I also want make this very clear...I can spell intellect.

Also I NEVER said I thought the suspensions were fair.  In fact I posted that I thought all involved should just have been fined.

My position is that the rules which have clearly stated, clearly enforced and regularly preached to the players and teams have been upheld.  Were the players and coaches aware of the rules?  It isn't like this is something new that was just instituted this season.  Is the rule fair?  I would probably vote no.

But did anyone hear Stern's interview?  He is right...what factors do you take into account?  Playoff game?  Does round 3 give the player more leeway than round 2?  If happens in the first quarter is it less punishible than the 4th quarter?  A tight game vs a blowout?  Your (or the media's) favorite team?

But at what point do you suspend a player?  When he confornts someone?  When he makes grabs another player?  When he cocks his fist?  When he decks another player? 

Is the uproar because it was Amare & Diaw?  No one made that uproar a few years ago when it was Artest & Jalen Rose.  There was not this much uproar when it cost the Knicks a series and possible title run.  Why is this situation so bad that everyone is appalled?

Would it have been different if it had been Burke and Banks?  If the situation had been reversed and "dirty" Bowen & Ginobili had been suspended would the media being crying foul?
It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave.  Keep on thinking free.
-Moody Blues

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: I hope TD gets suspended for game 6.
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2007, 11:03:04 PM »
Therein lies the problem, though, Lurker.  The rule is designed to KEEP THINGS FROM ESCALATING.

Duncan stepping onto the court *WAS* escalating the situation, even though in the end, the on-court players chose not to go after each other.

Are you suggesting that we blame the Diaw and Stoudemire suspensions on Raja Bell?  Clearly, had he not responded, almost certainly no one would have.  And in that case, Diaw and Stoudemire's actions would have been okay?

If the rule is the rule, and it's purpose is to keep situations from escalating, Duncan broke that rule.



BINGO!

I think Joe V is the only poster on this board that even comes close to my intelect, you don't need to be able to spell intelect in order to posses it btw.

Some days I think so highly of myself that I consider myself in the same league as JoMal.  Do I dare to dream such a dream?

Considering that you don't even know intellect is spelled with 2 l's, you should already know the answer!  And the presumption that you don't know how to spell in order to have an advanced intellect reveals just how inferior you actually are. Not that spelling is intrinsic, but on the way to developing that capacity for understanding, typically one extends inner integrity to all aspects of their behavior.  But, by all means keep on dreaming and aspiring.

Rick,

Are you really that gullible?  I think you're the ONLY poster who didn't "get" my post, even that knuckle dragging cro-mag Joe V probably "got" my post.

Spelling is just memorization, memorization is one of the lowest forms of thinking, glad to know you've mastered that level.

FYI, even a low level intellect can link to http://www.m-w.com/ and check their spelling if they gave a rats arse.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: I hope TD gets suspended for game 6.
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2007, 11:09:30 PM »
The mark of genius, intellect, and an almost surreal grasp of Life, the Earth, and Everything is total silence from the possessor of such gifts and so I will abide by that rule lest my elevated plateau paint me the braggadocios boor you seem so comfortable revealing yourself to be.

Jimmy crickets, I should have used a dolphin safe net.  It's no fun, it's almost like hitting a tard with his own hand or using numbers greater than 10 around a Texan.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"