Author Topic: NBA is now investigating Bowen  (Read 3645 times)

Offline SPURSX3

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NBA is now investigating Bowen
« on: May 14, 2007, 08:10:01 AM »
http://www.broadbandnewsnet.com/newsmanager/anmviewer.asp?a=3804&z=1


You can watch the clip at the bottom of this page.  I know I am biased, but to me, this does not look intentional.  Tonights game is going to be tough. this series is starting create some really bad blood between these teams.  man I hope we can pull another one out tonight.
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: NBA is now investigating Bowen
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2007, 08:27:37 AM »
IMO it was no big deal, just playoff basketball.  The Amare incident is a totally different story, that looked really dirty.
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Offline westkoast

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Re: NBA is now investigating Bowen
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2007, 11:11:49 AM »
I can't see the clip for some reason but is this about the knee to the groin of Nash?

IMO that was Nash's own fault.  Bowen was doing a typical move that alot of offense players do so they can make a better passing angle/better pass.  If Nash didn't move all the way up on him and get in his karate stance that probably would not have happen. 

I also don't believe the Amare incident is that cheap.  I did not see him look down to see where Amare's foot was going to land so he could place his there.  If he did I would believe it but to me it looked as if he was looking up at the rim.  It's hard to look up at the rim in case a rebound could go your way and at the same exact time know where a player's foot is going to land.
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Offline JoMal

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Re: NBA is now investigating Bowen
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2007, 11:27:14 AM »
Yeah, and if that were the case, then no basketball player in the NBA could dribble the ball without looking to see where it hits the hardwood.
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Offline westkoast

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Re: NBA is now investigating Bowen
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2007, 11:48:24 AM »
Yeah, and if that were the case, then no basketball player in the NBA could dribble the ball without looking to see where it hits the hardwood.

Bowen would have control over the basketball if he was dribbling it...He would not have control of where Amare Stoudamire puts his foot down.
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Offline JoMal

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Re: NBA is now investigating Bowen
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2007, 01:46:11 PM »
Yeah, and if that were the case, then no basketball player in the NBA could dribble the ball without looking to see where it hits the hardwood.

Bowen would have control over the basketball if he was dribbling it...He would not have control of where Amare Stoudamire puts his foot down.

Same as the basketball, he certainly can anticipate where the foot will come down.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline Lurker

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Re: NBA is now investigating Bowen
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2007, 02:47:50 PM »
Funny thing is that when you replay the Amare "kick" from any other angle it looks like Bruce was charging towards the lane and planted his feet when he realized he was too late in rotation (and as koast points out looking towards the rim).  Then Stoudamire comes down. 

Only in our new enlightened age of media manipulations can you see the same play from a dozen different angles and edit the one that best supports your argument. 

Basically Phoenix (except Nash) has turned into a whiny team that has let the officiating get into their heads.  Maybe that has something to do with not being focused enough.
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Offline westkoast

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Re: NBA is now investigating Bowen
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2007, 02:59:36 PM »
Yeah, and if that were the case, then no basketball player in the NBA could dribble the ball without looking to see where it hits the hardwood.

Bowen would have control over the basketball if he was dribbling it...He would not have control of where Amare Stoudamire puts his foot down.

Same as the basketball, he certainly can anticipate where the foot will come down.

You can anticipate where a basketball is coming down without looking at the hardwood because your hand controls it.  Bowen did not guide Amare down onto his foot without looking down so you are not even making sense.
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Offline JoMal

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Re: NBA is now investigating Bowen
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2007, 03:42:47 PM »
Yeah, and if that were the case, then no basketball player in the NBA could dribble the ball without looking to see where it hits the hardwood.

Bowen would have control over the basketball if he was dribbling it...He would not have control of where Amare Stoudamire puts his foot down.

Same as the basketball, he certainly can anticipate where the foot will come down.

You can anticipate where a basketball is coming down without looking at the hardwood because your hand controls it.  Bowen did not guide Amare down onto his foot without looking down so you are not even making sense.

Look, this is fairly basic.

Once Amare jumped, let's just assume that Bowen sort of instinctively knew that he would have to come back down. Perhaps he knew where that might be, perhaps not, but he could easily assume it would be in the general area of where he went up. That Bowen's foot often finds itself in that general area may or may not lead to opponents twisting the ankle on his foot at times - maybe only every four or fifth time, would an opponent's foot come down where Bowen had his foot. But if he did it often enough, it would certainly look accidental when he managed to put it where it could do the most harm.

Since just about all other NBA defenders do not have the strange "luck" of Bowen in doing this, we probably can assume Bruce has something else on his mind by being under his opponent so often when they jump.

But most people would do what you do and give him the benefit of the doubt. Convenient.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline JoMal

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Re: NBA is now investigating Bowen
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2007, 03:45:32 PM »
Funny thing is that when you replay the Amare "kick" from any other angle it looks like Bruce was charging towards the lane and planted his feet when he realized he was too late in rotation (and as koast points out looking towards the rim).  Then Stoudamire comes down. 

Only in our new enlightened age of media manipulations can you see the same play from a dozen different angles and edit the one that best supports your argument. 

Basically Phoenix (except Nash) has turned into a whiny team that has let the officiating get into their heads.  Maybe that has something to do with not being focused enough.

Sorry. Lurker, but your prior complaints about the unfairness of the officiating regarding their attitute towards the Spurs lends me to give little credence to your arguement in defending Bowen now.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline westkoast

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Re: NBA is now investigating Bowen
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2007, 04:33:52 PM »
Yeah, and if that were the case, then no basketball player in the NBA could dribble the ball without looking to see where it hits the hardwood.

Bowen would have control over the basketball if he was dribbling it...He would not have control of where Amare Stoudamire puts his foot down.

Same as the basketball, he certainly can anticipate where the foot will come down.

You can anticipate where a basketball is coming down without looking at the hardwood because your hand controls it.  Bowen did not guide Amare down onto his foot without looking down so you are not even making sense.

Look, this is fairly basic.

Once Amare jumped, let's just assume that Bowen sort of instinctively knew that he would have to come back down. Perhaps he knew where that might be, perhaps not, but he could easily assume it would be in the general area of where he went up. That Bowen's foot often finds itself in that general area may or may not lead to opponents twisting the ankle on his foot at times - maybe only every four or fifth time, would an opponent's foot come down where Bowen had his foot. But if he did it often enough, it would certainly look accidental when he managed to put it where it could do the most harm.

Since just about all other NBA defenders do not have the strange "luck" of Bowen in doing this, we probably can assume Bruce has something else on his mind by being under his opponent so often when they jump.

But most people would do what you do and give him the benefit of the doubt. Convenient.

I understand that JoMaL.  What I am saying is it is not the same as dribbling a basketball.  That was not a good analogy.

The last 2 times someone came down on Bowen's foot it is because he is trying to close out on them and gets too close.  If you don't get close enough guys like Ray Allen drill shots.  If you get too close you are bound to get yourself into trouble.   I just don't see how Bowen could decide when to do it and when not to do.  Or when he could 'get away' with it and not get away with.  To me I don't see how you focus in on playing the game of basketball and at the same time know that.  Does he have a dirty instinct?

I give him the benefit of the doubt because of who is complaining, replays, and the fact that if he was a real dirty player.... Why is he so selective who does it to?  Why didn't he do it to Allen Iverson last series?  Why didn't he do it to Dirk last year when they got eliminated?   Why doesn't he do it to Kobe Bryant, Gilbert Arenas, Carmelo Anthony or Baron Davis?  Those guys have success against him and have been shut down by him.    He always guards the best scorers in the league night in and night out and only the whiners seem to complain.  Things like this (calling someone dirty)  stick in the NBA and when guys are frustrated it couldn't possibly be because they are not playing well...it is because he is 'cheap' or getting calls.

Does everyone seem to forget 10 or so years ago when John Stockton and Steve Kerr were doing moves like Manu, they were 'vet moves' and not 'dirty'  (And it pains me to defend Manu right here just to put it out there).  I've heard Marv Albert actually commend John Stockton for pulling a 'vet move' in the middle of a playoff game.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2007, 04:41:46 PM by westkoast »
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Offline msc

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Re: NBA is now investigating Bowen
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2007, 06:44:50 PM »
Funny thing is that when you replay the Amare "kick" from any other angle it looks like Bruce was charging towards the lane and planted his feet when he realized he was too late in rotation (and as koast points out looking towards the rim).  Then Stoudamire comes down. 

Only in our new enlightened age of media manipulations can you see the same play from a dozen different angles and edit the one that best supports your argument. 

Agreed.  Not to re-hash, but the Kobe/Manu incident is a spot on example.  When that play happened in real time, I thought nothing of it, other than incidental contact.  Then it was discected in to 24 angles in super slo motion and all of the sudden there are 10 pages of posts about how Kobe is a dirty player.  I honestly feel the same in this situation.  BTW, there's really only one angle where it looks like it could be calculated by Bowen, and that's the view from behind.  All others I've seen it looks accidental, IMO. 

Quote
Basically Phoenix (except Nash) has turned into a whiny team that has let the officiating get into their heads.  Maybe that has something to do with not being focused enough.

No kidding.  Between the Suns and the tandem of Baron Davis/Steve Jackson, my two favorite series to watch are becoming increasingly annoying to watch.  Just shut up and play basketball ... it's the playoffs!  If I were Nellie and Steven Jackson pulled even one of his not running back on D while he cries to the ref ... I would bench his butt in to the middle of next week.  He literally does it on almost every possession where he shoots and doesn't score.  Of course, Nellie's probably just ecstatic that Jackson hasn't been arrested in like 4 weeks, so he doesn't want to rock the boat. 

Offline Reality

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Re: NBA is now investigating Bowen
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2007, 07:04:38 PM »
If I were Nellie and Steven Jackson pulled even one of his not running back on D while he cries to the ref ... I would bench his butt in to the middle of next week.  He literally does it on almost every possession where he shoots and doesn't score.  Of course, Nellie's probably just ecstatic that Jackson hasn't been arrested in like 4 weeks, so he doesn't want to rock the boat. 
  With the game on the line near the end at that.  (Not that earlier game slacking is any better.)
yeah this game behavior just blows me away.  msc did you see Amare do this at the end of game 1 v Spurs?  Unreal.
TD gets rebound and Poutamire is 6 inches away yet retreats while whining to ref.  13 seconds on game clock!!!  Allows Duncan to pass to Manu who in turn passed to Findawg for the FTs @ 9 seconds left.

Offline msc

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Re: NBA is now investigating Bowen
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2007, 07:54:03 PM »
If I were Nellie and Steven Jackson pulled even one of his not running back on D while he cries to the ref ... I would bench his butt in to the middle of next week.  He literally does it on almost every possession where he shoots and doesn't score.  Of course, Nellie's probably just ecstatic that Jackson hasn't been arrested in like 4 weeks, so he doesn't want to rock the boat. 
  With the game on the line near the end at that.  (Not that earlier game slacking is any better.)
yeah this game behavior just blows me away.  msc did you see Amare do this at the end of game 1 v Spurs?  Unreal.
TD gets rebound and Poutamire is 6 inches away yet retreats while whining to ref.  13 seconds on game clock!!!  Allows Duncan to pass to Manu who in turn passed to Findawg for the FTs @ 9 seconds left.

No I missed game 1 unfortunately, just got to read the article the next day ... which of course didn't mention that. 


Offline westkoast

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Re: NBA is now investigating Bowen
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2007, 10:26:29 PM »
Hmm...

I wonder if anything is going to be mentioned of Raja Bells dirty and cheap play in this game tonight.  He has had a number of cheap flops and quite a few shoves/elbows to players.  That doesn't include all the grabbing, holding, and pulling he is doing.
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