Dr. Ron Paul, Republican Congressman

[rickortreat]

Ron is trying to establish himself as a candidate for President for the next election.  I don't know if any of you saw the Republican debate last week, but I thought he did a good job, better in many respects than the others.

I have done a bit of research into this guy, and he is not your average Republican by any means.  He believes in sound money, is concerned about the erosion of freedoms in the US, and is a strict Constitutionalist.  This is not an act, since his voting record in Congress has been very consistent with these positons.

According to the MSNBC poll, Ron won the debate, but you will find little mention of his name in the coverage.  Admittedly he's an unknown candidate, but that doesn't justify not giving him his due.  IF the poll says the responders thought he won, that IS news.

It is my belief that Ron is a political outsider who will upset the current process which is erroding our freedoms and our economy, and therefore our independence.  The powers that be, don't want a Ron Paul in control of the government, and will do what they can to keep him out of the public conscience.  They would prefer a McCain or Guilliani to be the Republican nominee, but after I saw the debate, I came to the conclusion that these guys are as phony as they can be.

By all means, evaluate these candidates on your own and make your own decision to elect a good president, if you have the choice. 

A government that decides that it can force the sale of your private property to the highest bidder, spy on you to determine your finances and medical circumstances, void the writ of habeas corpus, and the principal of posse comitatus, is NOT a government that respects your rights or the limitations of government power.

In fact, if these men and women know what they are doing, they are guilty of treason.  If they don't then they are incompetant and don't deserve to hold public office.  In either case, they are not people you should feel comfortable holding power in the US.

It does and will make a difference in your lives.  It is up to you to protect yourselves and make the government work for you.

[westkoast]

I don't think the republican party wants to put their push behind an unknown guy when they have someone like Rudy they can continue to tout the 'fighting terrorism' and '9/11' bs they've been pushing for so many years now.  The republicans want a guy who can scare the people into giving them power to do what they please.  They don't want a guy who sounds like he is more interested in giving more control back to the people.  For all the talk republicans do about 'big government' they want it that way, as long as they are in charge.  At least that is how it seems to me.

At this point in time, I don't want to see a republican in the presidential spot for a very very long time.  Not because I think it is impossible for a rep to have the qualities I believe a good president should have, I am sure there are some republicans who could fit the bill, but I worry about strings being pulled behind the scenes.  Not saying that a demo candidate couldn't fall victim to that but it is hard to give a republican the benefit of the doubt.

All this 'Jesus' crap they pull bothers me.  Not everyone in this country is Christian so republicans need to stop acting as if Jesus is speaking them  directly to make these decisions.  It's annoying and a slap to the face to people who feel this country practices religious freedom.  Kind of hard to believe that when "Jesus" is making all the decisions...

edit: Rick you also forgot to add that our US Government was spying on the Internet.  Not just something that effects us but effects everyone involved in it.  If they are attached to a major backbone spying on information they are invading other people's privacy other then just us US citizens.

[rickortreat]

I hear you Westkoast, I am generally not a republican and think the party has hurt itself tremendously with it's abuse of power and high-handed White House style.

I think the Bush template for winning by scaring the people isn't going to work this time.  People are unhappy with the apparent lack of results in Iraq, our loss of prestige around the world, and the serious economic problems we're facing.

But Ron Paul is nothing like the rest of the candidates who are playing out of the Bush handbook.  He is the only one who talks like a Goldwater conservative, the type that really believes in limited government and sound financial policy.

Ron is actually a libertarian, and although he should persue the Republican nomination, he should actually engage the libertarians as they should be attracted to his policies.

It is very hard for a Republican to get my vote.  I generally don't like the dems either, they pretty much rubber-stamped anything that Bush wanted.  Ron Paul really is an outsider, and I believe in him far more than I do a normal politician.

[westkoast]

I hear you Westkoast, I am generally not a republican and think the party has hurt itself tremendously with it's abuse of power and high-handed White House style.

I think the Bush template for winning by scaring the people isn't going to work this time.  People are unhappy with the apparent lack of results in Iraq, our loss of prestige around the world, and the serious economic problems we're facing.

But Ron Paul is nothing like the rest of the candidates who are playing out of the Bush handbook.  He is the only one who talks like a Goldwater conservative, the type that really believes in limited government and sound financial policy.

Ron is actually a libertarian, and although he should persue the Republican nomination, he should actually engage the libertarians as they should be attracted to his policies.

It is very hard for a Republican to get my vote.  I generally don't like the dems either, they pretty much rubber-stamped anything that Bush wanted.  Ron Paul really is an outsider, and I believe in him far more than I do a normal politician.

I agree with the last statement about the Dems too.  I feel as if they were bullied and mentally tricked into being mindless drones.  The fear that if you don't blindly support your country you will be labeled as anti-American, don't support the troops, or not patriotic is utter crap.  Instead of them standing up and saying 'No you MFers, I support the troops so much I want to see them come home to their families.  They were lied to and need to be taken out of harms way.'

The problem I have is that right now it seems as if everything is all good, as far as what he stands for, but if he were to get in a high place I still feel like he would get side tracked because of politics.  Whether from his own party or the other party.  I feel like the system itself is screwed up and no matter what kind of person gets into those spots of power other factors end up tainting what their original ideas were.  Even if you have a person who has the right ideas and plans for this country, the system is so corrupted and screwy it doesn't get done the way it should.  Money talks entirely too much.

At this point I don't see a single candidate that speaks to me....and I probably never will from this point on.  I am a young man and I am completely turned off to the idea of our government.  Alot of friends and co-workers around my same age kind of feel the same way.  To me that is a really bad sign.  We already look bad compared to how countries like France handle their government in terms of how they look at their politicans and voter turn out.    Personally, I don't care about the same lame big ticket 'issues' our  idiot country has made the norm.  I don't want to hear debates about abortion in either direction as a major issue (I am pro choice but it's not a major issue to me).  Talk about more relevant issues and not just the Iraq war.

You know the best and most efficient way for the average American to get in touch with their politicans is through the Internet via email, websites, or message boards.  The problem is that most of them are not using new technology to interact with a younger generation.   For the people who were over the voting age by a few years, close to the voting age, or will come to a voting age by the time this president is still in office are going to be turned off to the whole process.  I think that is one of the major blows this administration has dealt this country.

[rickortreat]

"The problem I have is that right now it seems as if everything is all good, as far as what he stands for, but if he were to get in a high place I still feel like he would get side tracked because of politics.  Whether from his own party or the other party.  I feel like the system itself is screwed up and no matter what kind of person gets into those spots of power other factors end up tainting what their original ideas were.  Even if you have a person who has the right ideas and plans for this country, the system is so corrupted and screwy it doesn't get done the way it should.  Money talks entirely too much."

If you really believe this, then the country is doomed.  Understand that your freedoms should not ever be taken for granted, and get involved enough so that your rights are protected, instead of being assaulted.

Money does talk too much, but that is the way it has always been.  People are easily manipulated if you press the right buttons.  This is why the abortion issue never goes away, even though it is of little importance compared with the serious issues the country faces.  There is an element in this country that is so concerned about this issue that it is an obsession.  The Republican party depends on these people to become elected, so they will pander to them on this issue.

The real problem in this country is that people are apparently unable to think for themselves or recognize which issues are at the root of our problems and how they should be dealt with.  It is essentially the fatal flaw in a Democracy.  If the voters are sheep, they get what they deserve.

They voted for Bush once, (assuming the election wasn't stolen!) But after 4 years in office, after 9-11, and the Patriot Act and a number of other issues that I personally find troubling, they voted for him again!  I love America, or at least the ideals it was founded on, but most people don't even seem to appreciate what those ideals are.

Abortion is a prime example.  We are supposed to be free to make our own choices.  Free will is the ultimate expression of your rights to make your own way in the world.  Abortion is somewhat complicated, since there are at least two parties directly affected by the woman's right to choose; her own body and that of the fetus.

But when you view the issue from the standpoint of the two possible outcomes- either an abortion or the birth of a new citizen the choice becomes clear.  The woman doesn't want the child but is forced by law to carry it to term.  She then puts the child up for adoption, at which point it becomes a burden on the taxpayers.  You and I and everyone else has to pay for the upbringing, health care and shelter of the child.  Schooling, food, clothing, all of these things cost money that you would be obligated to pay for every unwanted child.  To me that is immoral!  It is diverting public money from services for us to new citizens.  Unless anti-abortion advocates are willing to pay for all of these burdens out of their own pocket, then the woman's right to choose must win out from a fiscal perspective.

Further any laws which interfere with an individuals right to exercise their free will, such as drug use, prostitution or other forms of victim-less crime are an intrusion into our freedoms. Our experience with Prohibition reveals the impracticality of legislating morality.  Making such choices illegal, only encourages the creation of black markets. Our jails are filled with drug users who have become criminals, and the entire structure from the law enforcement officials, to the courts and the penal system - all paid for by taxpayer money is a further drain on resources that could be put to better use.

Far better for drug addicts to be treated and working than locked up in jail!  Far less costly for society on the whole!  But there's a lot of people who benefit from recreational drugs being illegal.  These laws are impractical and ineffective.
More people use illegal drugs than ever, in spite of all the money we've spent in the war on drugs. Yet the political dynamics of this country make it unlikely that we will see a decriminalization of these laws anytime soon.  Stupid people, stupid decisions, stupid government. 

[westkoast]

I want to make a much longer and more in depth response to what you said so I am going to hold off until I am off work but I wanted to know if you heard about the rumor that RNC wants to keep Ron Paul out of the next round of debates.  Not sure why but I think he is just doing too good of a job trying to fix this country and that is the opposite of what the republicans want to accomplish 

Like I said I feel as if the system itself is so messed up it really keeps quality guys from getting to places where they can make a difference.  If this rumor is true then it only furthers my feelings.

[westkoast]

Ron Paul educating Rudy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcQQ05XtAQ4


RON PAUL AT THE GOP DEBATE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hfa7vT02lA


RON PAUL ON TAX CUTS AND TORTURE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwXDu2trU8I

National ID Card/REAL ID:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbgiM7rhsmc

www.ronpaul2008.com

[rickortreat]

So far according to the exit polls Ron Paul has won every Republican debate, but is being given no attention by the national media.

It is as though there is a conspiracy to keep Ron from gaining the public awareness he needs to compete!

This is what is wrong with politics in America, even when the people show a preference for a candidate that is not an insider, he is ignored.

This is why America sucks- it is politically ossified- the will of the people no longer matters.  There is no democracy when we are denied a choice! The complicity between the parties and the media is so excessive that an honest, decent man like Ron Paul can't gain any support.

[jn]

He did make an appearance on the Daily Show.  I had heard about him some months back as George Will wrote an admiring op/ed about him.  Whatever you may think of his views he at least seems to be a thoughtful, honest man.

This reminds me of a situation in MN a few years back.  The late Harold Stassen, who's perennial candidacies for president turned him into a joke, was barred by the MN Repubs from speaking at Repubican primaries and fundraisers.  He was considered an ancient punchline but the party power brokers were soon reminded that once upon a time he was a brilliant political force who was a highly successful governor of MN and a legit candidate for prez.  His wit and wisdom made the other candidates look ignorant demagogues.  So they gave him the cold shoulder.   

[westkoast]

So far according to the exit polls Ron Paul has won every Republican debate, but is being given no attention by the national media.

It is as though there is a conspiracy to keep Ron from gaining the public awareness he needs to compete!

This is what is wrong with politics in America, even when the people show a preference for a candidate that is not an insider, he is ignored.

This is why America sucks- it is politically ossified- the will of the people no longer matters.  There is no democracy when we are denied a choice! The complicity between the parties and the media is so excessive that an honest, decent man like Ron Paul can't gain any support.

Rick this is exactly why I said earlier even if a good guy comes along I feel as if the system is so screwed up that it doesn't matter.  Eventually that person has to play by the rules of the corrupt system or get the heck out.

[Ted]

But when you view the issue from the standpoint of the two possible outcomes- either an abortion or the birth of a new citizen the choice becomes clear.  The woman doesn't want the child but is forced by law to carry it to term.  She then puts the child up for adoption, at which point it becomes a burden on the taxpayers.  You and I and everyone else has to pay for the upbringing, health care and shelter of the child.  Schooling, food, clothing, all of these things cost money that you would be obligated to pay for every unwanted child.  To me that is immoral!  It is diverting public money from services for us to new citizens.  Unless anti-abortion advocates are willing to pay for all of these burdens out of their own pocket, then the woman's right to choose must win out from a fiscal perspective.

Further any laws which interfere with an individuals right to exercise their free will, such as drug use, prostitution or other forms of victim-less crime are an intrusion into our freedoms. Our experience with Prohibition reveals the impracticality of legislating morality.  Making such choices illegal, only encourages the creation of black markets. Our jails are filled with drug users who have become criminals, and the entire structure from the law enforcement officials, to the courts and the penal system - all paid for by taxpayer money is a further drain on resources that could be put to better use.

A child put up for adoption becomes the responsibility of the state? Funny . . . I thought the adoptive parents bore the responsibility for all the things you list. Disgustingly, your argument reduces the sanctity of human life down to a list of inconvenient expenses. I'm still figuring out the abortion issue myself. A woman's rights are important. When does a fetus become a child? When does it begin to have the right to live? What do you do in cases of rape, incest, and when the mother's life is in danger? It is not a black-and-white issue. But I ask you this: Does the right of a "responsible" adult to not bear a child through a full-term pregnancy truly outweigh the right of single human being to simply live.

I feel sorry for you Rick. Your justification of abortion as the beneficial removal of the expense of supporting another parasitic life on the world and the economy completely neglects the incredible good that every person has the potential to bring to the world. You're right about one thing. The choice is clear. Life is precious; not an economic cost. Sad outlook on the world IMHO.

P.S. Drug use is a victimless crime . . . tell that to my mom and sister killed by a drug user who crossed six lanes of traffic and hit them head on. Tell that to the families ripped apart by addiction. Ridiculous assertion.

[rickortreat]

But when you view the issue from the standpoint of the two possible outcomes- either an abortion or the birth of a new citizen the choice becomes clear.  The woman doesn't want the child but is forced by law to carry it to term.  She then puts the child up for adoption, at which point it becomes a burden on the taxpayers.  You and I and everyone else has to pay for the upbringing, health care and shelter of the child.  Schooling, food, clothing, all of these things cost money that you would be obligated to pay for every unwanted child.  To me that is immoral!  It is diverting public money from services for us to new citizens.  Unless anti-abortion advocates are willing to pay for all of these burdens out of their own pocket, then the woman's right to choose must win out from a fiscal perspective.



Further any laws which interfere with an individuals right to exercise their free will, such as drug use, prostitution or other forms of victim-less crime are an intrusion into our freedoms. Our experience with Prohibition reveals the impracticality of legislating morality.  Making such choices illegal, only encourages the creation of black markets. Our jails are filled with drug users who have become criminals, and the entire structure from the law enforcement officials, to the courts and the penal system - all paid for by taxpayer money is a further drain on resources that could be put to better use.

A child put up for adoption becomes the responsibility of the state? Funny . . . I thought the adoptive parents bore the responsibility for all the things you list. Disgustingly, your argument reduces the sanctity of human life down to a list of inconvenient expenses. I'm still figuring out the abortion issue myself. A woman's rights are important. When does a fetus become a child? When does it begin to have the right to live? What do you do in cases of rape, incest, and when the mother's life is in danger? It is not a black-and-white issue. But I ask you this: Does the right of a "responsible" adult to not bear a child through a full-term pregnancy truly outweigh the right of single human being to simply live.

I feel sorry for you Rick. Your justification of abortion as the beneficial removal of the expense of supporting another parasitic life on the world and the economy completely neglects the incredible good that every person has the potential to bring to the world. You're right about one thing. The choice is clear. Life is precious; not an economic cost. Sad outlook on the world IMHO.

P.S. Drug use is a victimless crime . . . tell that to my mom and sister killed by a drug user who crossed six lanes of traffic and hit them head on. Tell that to the families ripped apart by addiction. Ridiculous assertion.

I'm not attempting to justify abortion.  I'm trying to point out that society has no right to impose it's values on anyone else!  Society tells a woman who becomes pregnant that she has to have the baby?  If that isn't an excessive intrusion into someone's freedom than what is?

Further who many babies put up for adoption are actually adopted, and how many end up as wards of the state?  What about the emotional development of the child who grows up learning his/her parents didn't want them.

I don't want to tell anyone what to do, even if I believe it is the right thing.  It is that person's choice, not mine.  But when we speak as one- as we do when we pass a law, I want that law to reflect my respect for other people's choices.  IMO banning abortion doesn't show any respect for the woman's choice, and I don't want this country running roughshod over people's rights.

Anyone brought into the world could make the world better, true.  They could also make the world a lot worse- there's no way to know.  For us a society every choice we make costs us- either in dollars or in restrictions to our behavior and freedoms.  Unless I meet or become involved with either the mother or the child, I have no connection to them.  I don't owe them anymore than anyone else, yet you think society should have the right to tax me to pay for someone else to have a child she doesn't even want?  That's really sick!

Terribly sorry about your loss as the result of a drug user.  That individual used extremely poor judgement in driving while intoxicated.  I may be an advocate for the decriminalization of drugs, but under no circumstances would I ever be for people driving, or operating machinery when under the influence of such a drug.

Making drugs illegal doesn't stop addicts from destroying families Ted. Making them legal and treating people with problems might help people and stop the destructive behavior.  If the man who supports his family becomes addicted and then thrown into jail, that isn't going to help that family stay together!