Fmr Pres Carter cricizes Bush and Blair

[WayOutWest]

It is amazing that as these different stories break that the reaction from Bush & his supporters is not to furnish facts that disprove the various claims.  Instead they attack the messenger with semi-truths and character smears.

I can now officially give up my title of Saint Ziggy, it now belongs to Lurker.  The left is always on the right side, and they NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, resort to lies, innuendo, smear campaigns, semi-truths, and character smears.  This is all partisan politics, and sometimes it gets down and dirty.  You know as Kerry says the Republicans are all lies and crooks.  Save me the platitudes.  If Carter wants to get into partisan name calling, and that is EXACTLY WHAT HE DID, then he can't then take the moral high ground.

ziggy, I'm at the point where anything but Bush will suit me fine.  I KNOW that Bush is a criminal, along with his corporate puppet masters, so why would I want to go that route again?  Who knows what kind of scum the Demos COULD be, but I know I don't want to deal with the KNOWN scum of Bush.

[spursfan101]

We did it because the only way to defeat terrorism in the Middle East is to get rid of the despotic regimes that expolit the oil wealth and exploit the populations. Create democracy in the region and they will be much less likely to export terror. No terror organizations are supported by free democracies. The terror organizations are supported by the likes of Iran, Lybia, Syria, the Taliban in Afganistan, Saddam's Iraq, North Korea, Haiti, Rwanda, Sudan, Nigeria, and lastly Suadi Arabia. Thats the fact Jack.

Only way to defeat terrorism. It would seem to me that SINCE we went into Iraq, the Middle Eastern World (along with many of our former allies) hates us even more. In fact, you can make the argument that terrorism recruitment has INCREASED since we tried to democratize that part of the world. Thing to remember is, not EVERYBODY wants our (dare I say immoral) way of life.  

[Ted]

Only way to defeat terrorism. It would seem to me that SINCE we went into Iraq, the Middle Eastern World (along with many of our former allies) hates us even more. In fact, you can make the argument that terrorism recruitment has INCREASED since we tried to democratize that part of the world. Thing to remember is, not EVERYBODY wants our (dare I say immoral) way of life.

How do we defeat terrorism?

I'm serious. I want to know your opinions.

[spursfan101]

offering them an apology and giving their family health insurance would be a start.

[Ted]

Exactly the kind of answer I expected. <_<  

[ziggy]

I think your biggest problem ziggy is you fail to see the difference between terrorists and the rest.  You can deal with countries like Iraq because they actually fear what you could do to them in more ways than one.  Terrorist don't, the only thing you can do to deal with a terrorist is kill him/her/it.  Iraq was a TOTAL BS war.  If the US is going to stand idly by and let MILLIONS of people get LITTERALLY hacked to pieces and do NOTHING, then why the flock did we go into Iraq?

I don't know why we didn't go to Rwanda, why not ask Bill Clinton?  He was in charge then, not me, not Bush.

As far as the terrorists, we are killing them in Iraq, and we are killing them in Afganistan.  So what is your point?  We should kill them, but going to Iraq to kill them is wrong?  Starting a war to end a terroist regime in Afganistan is OK, but it is not OK to end a terrorist regime in Iraq?  You can deal with countries like Iraq?  Excuse me but we tried that for 12 years, and nothing changed, because Saddam was nothing more than a terrorist.

So maybe WOW, you just don't get it get.

[WayOutWest]

Exactly the kind of answer I expected. <_<

Ted,

Can you friggin read or NOT?  I know you were asking that dumarse fan from Texa$$ but I've already posted the answer.

You defeat terrorists by killing THEM in the country THEY live in.  Not by invading some OTHER country that has oil and their leaders c@#% in our presidents mouth.

Ted, I'm going to slap Lurker around to teach YOU a lesson!

[WayOutWest]

I think your biggest problem ziggy is you fail to see the difference between terrorists and the rest.  You can deal with countries like Iraq because they actually fear what you could do to them in more ways than one.  Terrorist don't, the only thing you can do to deal with a terrorist is kill him/her/it.  Iraq was a TOTAL BS war.  If the US is going to stand idly by and let MILLIONS of people get LITTERALLY hacked to pieces and do NOTHING, then why the flock did we go into Iraq?

I don't know why we didn't go to Rwanda, why not ask Bill Clinton?  He was in charge then, not me, not Bush.

As far as the terrorists, we are killing them in Iraq, and we are killing them in Afganistan.  So what is your point?  We should kill them, but going to Iraq to kill them is wrong?  Starting a war to end a terroist regime in Afganistan is OK, but it is not OK to end a terrorist regime in Iraq?  You can deal with countries like Iraq?  Excuse me but we tried that for 12 years, and nothing changed, because Saddam was nothing more than a terrorist.

So maybe WOW, you just don't get it get.

Terrorist regime in Iraq?   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

If it wasn't for the US, Saddam would have been next on the terrorist list.  How can you buy that line of BS about a terrorist regime in Iraq?  The regime was brutal and inhumane no doubt but SADLY that in of itself is NOT enough for the US to step in.  The only reason there are a boat/camel load of terrorists in Iraq NOW is because the US is there.  I'm glad the focus of terrorism is in Iraq and not on our soil but that DOESN'T change the BS reason we're there in the first place.

What did Saddam ACTUALLY do to justify the invasion.  I've yet to see the WMD that were such a threat to us that we HAD to go in there to destroy.

 

[ziggy]

Terrorist regime in Iraq?   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
 

Tell you what WOW, while you are laughing so hard, why not laugh at the families of the hundreds of thousands who were killed by Saddams regime.  When the people of Iraq express the depth of the atrocities commited by the Baathist regime in Iraq, why not roll on the floor and laugh your ass off.  When the families of the victims in Israel of the suicide bombers, who were financially supported by Iraq, show you the pictures of the dead, and take you to the hospital ward of the maimed, have a good laugh with that as well.

You may not like Bush, and you have every right to work against his reelection, but save me the moralizing about Rwanda, while laughing off the terror and atrocities committed by Iraq.

[Lurker]

ziggy....I'm not saying that the Demos are above the muck that Bush is spreading around.  And I do not believe in one instant that Kerry is "by default" any better.  If Kerry were in office...or Carter, or Clinton....I would be asking the same questions.

But I do still ask...if Bush's reasons for invading Iraq against the wishes of the rest of the world are so clear cut and morally right then why doesn't he come out and say that?  Why all the effort to support his view that there were WMD?  Why attempt to discredit anyone & everyone who does not agree with him?  Why not answer to an independent (not presidential) commission?   Why does he insist that all of his cabinet members & advisors speak to the investigators out of the public eye?  WHY HIDE EVERYTHING?

My issue isn't with which political party is in control.  My issue is with a president (and advisors/cabinet) that seems to be settinga course to purposely mislead the American people.  And setting out to destroy all foreign policy with no thought for the future.  IMO Bush isn't representing the American people but pursuing his own personal agenda in which he honestly believes what he decides is best for America.  We as citizens should be demanding accountability from our elected officials....not blindly following their managed sound bites.

And just to go on record....I was for impeaching Clinton for lying in office also.  That was one factor that led me to vote against Clinton in the last election.

[spursfan101]

I could care less which political party took office in the next election..just as long as its not George Bush. I have never in my life been so inclined to fight against an incumbant president as I have with the Shrub. I served during Desert Storm 1 under Bush's dad, I believe what we did there was just.

Maybe I should thank GW, for making me get so active in the political process.  For me, its not a matter of just not liking him. It's a matter of getting him out of the office so the next pres could fix all the damage he has done. Both internally and abroad.

[WayOutWest]

Terrorist regime in Iraq?   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
 

Tell you what WOW, while you are laughing so hard, why not laugh at the families of the hundreds of thousands who were killed by Saddams regime.  When the people of Iraq express the depth of the atrocities commited by the Baathist regime in Iraq, why not roll on the floor and laugh your ass off.  When the families of the victims in Israel of the suicide bombers, who were financially supported by Iraq, show you the pictures of the dead, and take you to the hospital ward of the maimed, have a good laugh with that as well.

You may not like Bush, and you have every right to work against his reelection, but save me the moralizing about Rwanda, while laughing off the terror and atrocities committed by Iraq.

Spare me ziggy with your day time drama bullshit.  I'm laughing at the catagorizing of Saddam's regime as a terrorist regime.  Why isn't El Slavador, Saudi ArabiaMexico, China, Iran etc..etfuckingcetera called that?  Because of money and Oil not because of the poor "innocents" you brought up.  Like you said, it's not about the quantities of people murdered by the gov. RIGHT!!!!?

Give me a freaking break ziggy, pah leeze!    :rolleyes:  

[ziggy]

Spare me ziggy with your day time drama bullshit.  I'm laughing at the catagorizing of Saddam's regime as a terrorist regime.  Why isn't El Slavador, Saudi ArabiaMexico, China, Iran etc..etfuckingcetera called that?  Because of money and Oil not because of the poor "innocents" you brought up.  Like you said, it's not about the quantities of people murdered by the gov. RIGHT!!!!?

Give me a freaking break ziggy, pah leeze!    :rolleyes:

Like you said, it's not about the quantities of people murdered by the gov. RIGHT!!!!?

Save me your pompus ass crap, I never said that, you did.  Your exact quote

"ziggy, give me a ring when Saddams breaks the 1 million deaths in a hundred days record!"

I am sure the families of the victims where ever they may be wouldn't characterize the deaths as day time drama bullshit.  Once again I say "save me the moralizing about Rwanda, while laughing off the terror and atrocities committed by Iraq."  If Iraq wasn't a terrorist regime, then please old wise one  give me an accurate description.  

[WayOutWest]

Spare me ziggy with your day time drama bullshit.  I'm laughing at the catagorizing of Saddam's regime as a terrorist regime.  Why isn't El Slavador, Saudi ArabiaMexico, China, Iran etc..etfuckingcetera called that?  Because of money and Oil not because of the poor "innocents" you brought up.  Like you said, it's not about the quantities of people murdered by the gov. RIGHT!!!!?

Give me a freaking break ziggy, pah leeze!    :rolleyes:

Like you said, it's not about the quantities of people murdered by the gov. RIGHT!!!!?

Save me your pompus ass crap, I never said that, you did.  Your exact quote

"ziggy, give me a ring when Saddams breaks the 1 million deaths in a hundred days record!"

I am sure the families of the victims where ever they may be wouldn't characterize the deaths as day time drama bullshit.  Once again I say "save me the moralizing about Rwanda, while laughing off the terror and atrocities committed by Iraq."  If Iraq wasn't a terrorist regime, then please old wise one  give me an accurate description.

Did you actually read the post??

I told you what I was laughing at, DID YOU MISS IT AGAIN?

[spursfan101]

I am sure the families of the victims where ever they may be wouldn't characterize the deaths as day time drama bullshit. Once again I say "save me the moralizing about Rwanda, while laughing off the terror and atrocities committed by Iraq." If Iraq wasn't a terrorist regime, then please old wise one give me an accurate description.

got darn bleeding heart liberal rhetoric! :lol:  um...did I say that?