Should refs be alot more reluctant to eject the best player on a squad in...

[westkoast]

a very important game in the playoffs?  If refs are not to effected the out come of the game should they think a little bit before ejecting a star player?  I am not saying let them get away with murder like verbally abusing them to death.  Clapping in a sarcastic matter shouldn't really warrant handing the game over from a team who already is out matched talentwise.

If anyone saw the Dallas/GS game last night GS' best player was tossed from the game.  Baron Davis was ejected for "showing up the ref" and GS was pretty much done by the end of the 3rd quarter.  While he deserved a technical for "showing up the ref" he didn't deserve to be thrown out because his first technical was a bad call.  The first technical came because Matt Barnes tried to grab the ball from Jason Terry after a foul was called, Diop runs over and throws his body into Matt Barnes which prompts Baron Davis to step in to try to separate him.   When Baron comes over Devin Harris runs into him and starts shouting at him which causes the double technical.

Stephen Jackson was also tossed but I couldn't quite figure out why.  I was switching between the end of the game and another TV show.

[Lurker]

My problem with Salvatore ejecting Davis had to do with the fact that he was on the other side of the court.  The official standing right next to Nelson & Davis didn't seem to have any problem but Salvatore did from 50-60 feet away?  The NBA has given too much discretion to the refs and the games are looking like they are being manipulated (couldn't go far enough to call a fix).

I also thought the officiating in the last 5-6 minutes of the Spurs/Nuggets game was biased (of course it all has to be homerism).  Parker is breaking away when Blake runs into him and knocks the ball loose.  Then Parker is called for pushing off Blake to get the ball back (right call...but the first one was missed).  On the next possession for Denver, Manu pokes the ball away from Blake and Blake shoves Manu into the scorer's table while all 3 refs watch with no call.  Then down the stretch Denver attacks the boards without any over the backs, pushing or contact at all obviously.  In fact Nene can have his arm completely wrapped around Duncan's back and there is no foul call.  Fortunately the Spurs seem to have learned their lesson and kept their mouths shut.  If the refs would only "T" up AI for his constant jabbering after every drive to the hoop.

[JoMal]

If the refs would only "T" up TD for his constant jabbering after every drive to the hoop.

yeah.....if only.

[westkoast]

My problem with Salvatore ejecting Davis had to do with the fact that he was on the other side of the court.  The official standing right next to Nelson & Davis didn't seem to have any problem but Salvatore did from 50-60 feet away?  The NBA has given too much discretion to the refs and the games are looking like they are being manipulated (couldn't go far enough to call a fix).

I also thought the officiating in the last 5-6 minutes of the Spurs/Nuggets game was biased (of course it all has to be homerism).  Parker is breaking away when Blake runs into him and knocks the ball loose.  Then Parker is called for pushing off Blake to get the ball back (right call...but the first one was missed).  On the next possession for Denver, Manu pokes the ball away from Blake and Blake shoves Manu into the scorer's table while all 3 refs watch with no call.  Then down the stretch Denver attacks the boards without any over the backs, pushing or contact at all obviously.  In fact Nene can have his arm completely wrapped around Duncan's back and there is no foul call.  Fortunately the Spurs seem to have learned their lesson and kept their mouths shut.  If the refs would only "T" up AI for his constant jabbering after every drive to the hoop.

I had the same problem.  Not only that but when he warned Don Nelson as Don Nelson started to make his way back to Baron to tell him to quit he had already ejected Davis.  What is the point of telling the coach 'tell him to stop clapping sarcastically' if you are going to boot him before he walks 3 steps in his direction?  Up until that point GS was playing them pretty well and it was a fun game to watch.  Taking the best player off the court against a team that has better talent at every position except the 1 is wrong.  The players are not allowed to show emotions and must think logically but the refs can show emotions and just boot players if they feel slighted?

One part I did manage to catch was the very end of the game where Duncan was isolated on the block.  He must have been fouled 3 times before the ball went into the bottom of the net with not a single call.  Obviously he sealed the deal but that wasn't the point.  I feel the refs regulate the tempo of the game too much.   

[rickortreat]

Baron Davis had it comming.  He was acting like a jackass and got what he deserved. 

If he was acting like a professional and just took it like a man, without whining or moaning or clapping his hands like some spoiled child he wouldn't have been thrown out.  BUT NOOO! Baron had to demonstrate his feelings about the affair in a demonstrative way.

Not only that, but the ref asked his Coach to put a stop to Baron's antics.  He tried but even Nellie couldn't get Baron to chill. 

It's a hard job to be a referee, they have the right to expect some respect from the players by virtue of their position.  Right or wrong, the refs are the authority in the game, and even if Stern decides to do something about it later, once a game ends, the outcome is decided. 

If a player can't be professional enough to handle that, he's going to have a tough time in the NBA.

[Lurker]

If the refs would only "T" up TD for his constant jabbering after every drive to the hoop.

yeah.....if only.

And if the Kings were playing then maybe you would watch a game instead of posting from box score reading.  Ever since his run-in with Crawford, Duncan has shut his mouth and played.  It is a shame you feel the need to bait everyone who is not a King fan like some lowly fanhome poster.

[westkoast]

Baron Davis had it comming.  He was acting like a jackass and got what he deserved. 

If he was acting like a professional and just took it like a man, without whining or moaning or clapping his hands like some spoiled child he wouldn't have been thrown out.  BUT NOOO! Baron had to demonstrate his feelings about the affair in a demonstrative way.

Not only that, but the ref asked his Coach to put a stop to Baron's antics.  He tried but even Nellie couldn't get Baron to chill. 

It's a hard job to be a referee, they have the right to expect some respect from the players by virtue of their position.  Right or wrong, the refs are the authority in the game, and even if Stern decides to do something about it later, once a game ends, the outcome is decided. 

If a player can't be professional enough to handle that, he's going to have a tough time in the NBA.

Rick that's funny cuz you don't say the same thing about Allen Iverson.  He complains on calls constantly and I can't count the number of times on my hand when he has done the sarcastic clap instead of running his mouth.  If Denver and SA were seperate by 4 points and they booted him I bet you would be singing a different tune.  GS has no chance to win a game without Baron on the floor playing a high level. This is a matchup between the 1 and the 8...so the gap between them is already huge.  You eject the best player on their squad and you hand the other team the game.  Up until that point Davis was eating up the Dallas defense with his penetration.

The basketball players can't clap their hands, laugh on the bench, vent, talk, or anything?  How is that fair?  Personally I want players who are very much into the game.  If every player acted like Smush Parker in the course of a playoff game then it wouldn't be much fun to watch.  The ref who Baron was apparently "showing up" didn't feel that way.  Salvatore did from the other side of the court.  That other ref pretty much just ignored Baron when he was standing only a few feet away.  Also, they called two quick fouls on Baron Davis (one cheap and one legit) which is actually why he was so upset.  That left him with 5 fouls at the end of the 3rd (they called 3 on him in the 3rd qt)

The ref asked Don Nelson to tell him to stop and before Don Nelson got a few steps in his direction he T'd him up.  I watched it on TiVO many times to see exactly what took place.

[JoMal]

If the refs would only "T" up TD for his constant jabbering after every drive to the hoop.

yeah.....if only.

And if the Kings were playing then maybe you would watch a game instead of posting from box score reading.  Ever since his run-in with Crawford, Duncan has shut his mouth and played.  It is a shame you feel the need to bait everyone who is not a King fan like some lowly fanhome poster.

Then honestly, don't make is so easy to do it by making ridiculously Spur-biased comments about the way the refs are calling the games. If Duncan can keep his mouth shut the rest of the playoffs, then maybe it would make sense for you to mention it.

[Lurker]

If the refs would only "T" up TD for his constant jabbering after every drive to the hoop.

yeah.....if only.

And if the Kings were playing then maybe you would watch a game instead of posting from box score reading.  Ever since his run-in with Crawford, Duncan has shut his mouth and played.  It is a shame you feel the need to bait everyone who is not a King fan like some lowly fanhome poster.

Then honestly, don't make is so easy to do it by making ridiculously Spur-biased comments about the way the refs are calling the games. If Duncan can keep his mouth shut the rest of the playoffs, then maybe it would make sense for you to mention it.

No problem...then you must agree to actually watch the games before commenting on them.  In two games Duncan has not been jabbering to the refs.  In fact the Nuggets have made the Spurs look like choir boys when it comes to complaining.

[JoMal]

If the refs would only "T" up TD for his constant jabbering after every drive to the hoop.

yeah.....if only.

And if the Kings were playing then maybe you would watch a game instead of posting from box score reading.  Ever since his run-in with Crawford, Duncan has shut his mouth and played.  It is a shame you feel the need to bait everyone who is not a King fan like some lowly fanhome poster.

Then honestly, don't make is so easy to do it by making ridiculously Spur-biased comments about the way the refs are calling the games. If Duncan can keep his mouth shut the rest of the playoffs, then maybe it would make sense for you to mention it.

No problem...then you must agree to actually watch the games before commenting on them.  In two games Duncan has not been jabbering to the refs.  In fact the Nuggets have made the Spurs look like choir boys when it comes to complaining.

Well, then, that will certainly motivate me to 'watch the games'.

But can I maintain my clear cut bias that favors the Nuggets over the Spurs in observing how the game is called by the refs? Please help me out here, Lurker, by showing me the way.

[rickortreat]

Baron Davis had it comming.  He was acting like a jackass and got what he deserved. 

If he was acting like a professional and just took it like a man, without whining or moaning or clapping his hands like some spoiled child he wouldn't have been thrown out.  BUT NOOO! Baron had to demonstrate his feelings about the affair in a demonstrative way.

Not only that, but the ref asked his Coach to put a stop to Baron's antics.  He tried but even Nellie couldn't get Baron to chill. 

It's a hard job to be a referee, they have the right to expect some respect from the players by virtue of their position.  Right or wrong, the refs are the authority in the game, and even if Stern decides to do something about it later, once a game ends, the outcome is decided. 

If a player can't be professional enough to handle that, he's going to have a tough time in the NBA.

Rick that's funny cuz you don't say the same thing about Allen Iverson.  He complains on calls constantly and I can't count the number of times on my hand when he has done the sarcastic clap instead of running his mouth.  If Denver and SA were seperate by 4 points and they booted him I bet you would be singing a different tune.  GS has no chance to win a game without Baron on the floor playing a high level. This is a matchup between the 1 and the 8...so the gap between them is already huge.  You eject the best player on their squad and you hand the other team the game.  Up until that point Davis was eating up the Dallas defense with his penetration.

The basketball players can't clap their hands, laugh on the bench, vent, talk, or anything?  How is that fair?  Personally I want players who are very much into the game.  If every player acted like Smush Parker in the course of a playoff game then it wouldn't be much fun to watch.  The ref who Baron was apparently "showing up" didn't feel that way.  Salvatore did from the other side of the court.  That other ref pretty much just ignored Baron when he was standing only a few feet away.  Also, they called two quick fouls on Baron Davis (one cheap and one legit) which is actually why he was so upset.  That left him with 5 fouls at the end of the 3rd (they called 3 on him in the 3rd qt)

The ref asked Don Nelson to tell him to stop and before Don Nelson got a few steps in his direction he T'd him up.  I watched it on TiVO many times to see exactly what took place.

The difference between AI and Baron is that AI knows what he can get away with, and what he can't.  He probably gets away with more than Baron, but that's because of AI's personality.  He respects the referees and never shows them up.  If he did what Baron did, he'd get ejected too.

There's a difference between being involved in the game and demonstrative, emotional behavior.  I agree that Stern's regulations are a bit much, but they are on overreaction to the petulant behavior that resulted in team brawls. Yes you want the players to care about winning, but respect each other and the refs.  It's not about fair, it's about presenting an image to the public of people who work very hard, and overcome adversity without whining or disrespecting authority. 

If you want to talk about fair, why is is that these guys get millions of dollars for playing a game that makes no real difference to quality of life in the world?  Should a b-ball player make more than a Doctor or a Teacher? There is no "FAIR" in the world in that way.  You knew that already!

[westkoast]

Baron Davis had it comming.  He was acting like a jackass and got what he deserved. 

If he was acting like a professional and just took it like a man, without whining or moaning or clapping his hands like some spoiled child he wouldn't have been thrown out.  BUT NOOO! Baron had to demonstrate his feelings about the affair in a demonstrative way.

Not only that, but the ref asked his Coach to put a stop to Baron's antics.  He tried but even Nellie couldn't get Baron to chill. 

It's a hard job to be a referee, they have the right to expect some respect from the players by virtue of their position.  Right or wrong, the refs are the authority in the game, and even if Stern decides to do something about it later, once a game ends, the outcome is decided. 

If a player can't be professional enough to handle that, he's going to have a tough time in the NBA.

Rick that's funny cuz you don't say the same thing about Allen Iverson.  He complains on calls constantly and I can't count the number of times on my hand when he has done the sarcastic clap instead of running his mouth.  If Denver and SA were seperate by 4 points and they booted him I bet you would be singing a different tune.  GS has no chance to win a game without Baron on the floor playing a high level. This is a matchup between the 1 and the 8...so the gap between them is already huge.  You eject the best player on their squad and you hand the other team the game.  Up until that point Davis was eating up the Dallas defense with his penetration.

The basketball players can't clap their hands, laugh on the bench, vent, talk, or anything?  How is that fair?  Personally I want players who are very much into the game.  If every player acted like Smush Parker in the course of a playoff game then it wouldn't be much fun to watch.  The ref who Baron was apparently "showing up" didn't feel that way.  Salvatore did from the other side of the court.  That other ref pretty much just ignored Baron when he was standing only a few feet away.  Also, they called two quick fouls on Baron Davis (one cheap and one legit) which is actually why he was so upset.  That left him with 5 fouls at the end of the 3rd (they called 3 on him in the 3rd qt)

The ref asked Don Nelson to tell him to stop and before Don Nelson got a few steps in his direction he T'd him up.  I watched it on TiVO many times to see exactly what took place.

The difference between AI and Baron is that AI knows what he can get away with, and what he can't.  He probably gets away with more than Baron, but that's because of AI's personality.  He respects the referees and never shows them up.  If he did what Baron did, he'd get ejected too.

There's a difference between being involved in the game and demonstrative, emotional behavior.  I agree that Stern's regulations are a bit much, but they are on overreaction to the petulant behavior that resulted in team brawls. Yes you want the players to care about winning, but respect each other and the refs.  It's not about fair, it's about presenting an image to the public of people who work very hard, and overcome adversity without whining or disrespecting authority. 

If you want to talk about fair, why is is that these guys get millions of dollars for playing a game that makes no real difference to quality of life in the world?  Should a b-ball player make more than a Doctor or a Teacher? There is no "FAIR" in the world in that way.  You knew that already!

Rick, AI complains more then Baron Davis does.  I don't even think that is debatable.  They called two quick fouls on him and three in the qt prior to him being ejected.  You don't think that wouldn't fire any player up?  AI gets away with more because he is a bigger name star then Baron Davis not because he knows what he can get away with.

Baron was clapping sarcastically.  Hardly close to cussing out the ref or causing a brawl.  I don't see how Baron being frustrated because he has passion for the game as presenting a bad image to hard working fans.  Hard working people usually have a passion for what they do.   That is kind of a weak argument Rick.  Plus, from you, it doesn't sound quite right because when AI argues he has passion to win the game and that is what leaders do.  When Baron argues he looks like he is setting a bad example to hard working fans.  To me, the amount of passion they both show says that they want to win.  What Stephen Jackson did was alot different.  He actually wouldn't shut up and was yelling profanitys.  Baron was clapping.  Something alot of other players do.  Even ones not nearly as important as he is to his team who is out classes by Dallas.  This was a playoff game and his second technical came two fast for an ejection.  The first technical was the wrong call.

Fair as in calls.  We are not talking about fair in life.   Just because these guys make millions of dollars doesn't mean that you can continue to use that to argue things you don't agree with.  Why the heck does AI ever argue about a call he makes millions?    Why did Duncan laugh with teammates on the bench after his call?

To me the refs are to well known and have egos themselves.  Sometimes I feel like they make that 'upstaging' call because it is like 'how dare he do that I am Benito Salvatore'  or 'How could he laugh on the bench at me I am Joey Crawford'  If anyone should not show emotion or be robots it is them.

[rickortreat]

How long was Barron clapping? The ref got pissed off and took him out.  Refs are human beings with feelings and ego's and Stern has given them a mandate.

The writing was on the wall when Duncan got tossed in that regular season game.  Even though the ref got suspended the Spurs still lost the game. It was just a dumb move on Barron's part, which was a real shame since they we're at least in it the time. 

You should be happy for Golden State.  They got a split in Dallas and hold serve.  The pressure is on the Mavericks to take control of this series right away.

I think that a Dallas win is a lock in game three.

[westkoast]

How long was Barron clapping? The ref got pissed off and took him out.  Refs are human beings with feelings and ego's and Stern has given them a mandate.

The writing was on the wall when Duncan got tossed in that regular season game.  Even though the ref got suspended the Spurs still lost the game. It was just a dumb move on Barron's part, which was a real shame since they we're at least in it the time. 

You should be happy for Golden State.  They got a split in Dallas and hold serve.  The pressure is on the Mavericks to take control of this series right away.

I think that a Dallas win is a lock in game three.

Rick like a minute or two.  Is there a claps per minute rule that Stern has put into the rule book?  So he should have talked smack verbally instead?  The ref closest to Baron was not even paying attention to him.

I agree it was a dumb move on Baron's part but considering the gap between the two teams and him being the best player, I feel like they should have not let their emotions get the best of them.  You have to have an ego if you felt you were 'getting shown up' from across the court.

That is great they split but I am not a big fan of either team.  Just thought they made the wrong decision.  As if GS doesn't have enough of a disadvantage against this team.