Can Shaq carry the Heat to the playoffs - without Wade?

[Reality]

Reality, swing and a miss 

On you growing some accountability nutts?
Make that a default.

[JoMal]

Since Miami is not going to be a factor for a while, who cares whether Shaq can lead them or anyone to another title? His day is done.

But high on the 'intriging' scale, I would say the two eastern teams that are most interesting at this time have to be Detroit and Cleveland. The Cavaliers tried as hard as they could to put together a package deal with Sacramento for Mike Bibby, but they just did not have the right combination of talent to trade, draft picks, and expiring contracts to pull it off, so Cleveland will have to rely solely on James to get them anywhere in the playoffs. And the delusional Damon Jones, who is still wondering why no one else considers him one of the top shooters in the League and virtually begged to be included in the three point shooting contest over the All Star weekend, only to be eliminated in the first round.

As for Detroit, who would have thunk that a team with Webber playing center would be a defensive juggarnaut? 

[westkoast]

Reality, swing and a miss 

On you growing some accountability nutts?
Make that a default.

If you want to play dumb because you wiffed be my guest. 

Speaking of C-Webb...where the hell was this C-Webb the last few years?!  Every single time I catch a Detroit game (which has been a decent number this year thanks to them being a league fav) he is playing pretty well all things considering.

[Reality]

Since Miami is not going to be a factor for a while, who cares whether Shaq can lead them or anyone to another title? His day is done.

Precisely.  While i would hardly call Shaq "done", as regards the keep Kobe or keep Shaq discussion, Shaqs contract with L.A. expired after last season.  All the Laker babble of how they "had" to extend him was nonsense.  So using their quotes and even using Laker Math, is the score 1-0 Shaq?
Rest of this year I doubt he will lead them past the 2nd round without Wade.  Course we can always compare Shaqs record with Kobes when on their own.

[JoMal]

Speaking of C-Webb...where the hell was this C-Webb the last few years?!  Every single time I catch a Detroit game (which has been a decent number this year thanks to them being a league fav) he is playing pretty well all things considering.

The truth about Webber is this - he plays really well when he is happiest. He was happy in SacTown and his play showed it. When things got a bit hairy in G.S. and Washington, (and of course Philly), his play reflected his poor mood.

Playing in his home town obviously has rejuvinated him.

[msc]

Logically it DID make more sense if you had to, to get rid of Shaq, since Kobe was younger.  However, it is a real shame that the Lakers couldn't keep that team together, as that would have likely resulted in another title.

Yes, it was a shame.  Although I don't agree they would have won more titles.  Don't forget after winning 3 in a row, they didn't win it for two more years.  Both Kobe and Shaq are responsible for their share of the blame.  If you'll recall though, Shaq wasn't in shape, he was taking extended layoffs for questionable injuries, and bottom line is he didn't have the fire in his belly he had prior to winning a string of titles.  He would have one decent game and then the next game he'd get 7 rebounds.  He could no longer string together two decent games and forget about posting a 36/18 game like he did during the glory run.  Kobe, say what you want about him, does have that fire and always will.  When you combine that with his youth compared to Shaq, it's a no-brainer on who you move forward with. 

Believe it or not, I like Shaq as a player and a person.  I like him more as a person than I like Kobe.  But basketball is a business and from a business perspective, I didn't appreciate Shaq's work ethic and I think Kobe's work ethic is second to non among current players.  As a fan, that goes very far in my book.  On that note, I completely agreed with Buss's decision to trade Shaq at the time, and in hindsight I agree with it even more.  Shaq has played what, 14 games this season?!?  We were better off moving him and not leveraging the hell out of the organization for the next 3-years to keep a guy that wasn't trying anymore.  Of course, when we traded him to Miami, he had a renewed fire b/c he felt spited.  Talk about a baby, but that's Shaq.  The Shaq we all saw the first two seasons in Miami was not the Shaq we would have seen had he stayed in LA.  I honestly can't believe people can see that trade as anything but the right decision, a tough decision, but the right one for the future of the franchise.

[Reality]

Where do I say that Shaq didn't have anything to do with the titles in LA?

I don't know, but Kobe had a lot to do with the 2006 title.
1-0 using reasonable as well as LakerMath standards, whether any of you appear and account for your own predictions and spoutings or not.

As to the future, yes Kobes work ethic should keep him in shape for more chances.
Whether or not Phil can continue to adjust his attitude, no one knows at this point.  I'm not liking the look of Phils demeanor right now, hope it's just his 1st ever 6 game losing streak and not more serious health issues.  I'd still like to see Phil coaching Manu and Kobe together, whether it's in L.A. or San Antone.

[Laker Fan]

Touche' MSC, what I've said all along.

As far as Rick is concerned, it isn't just his reading comprehension that is lacking his baskeball comprehension is all but non- existent, the result of the quality education system in Philly no doubt.

[Reality]

^^^ like i said msc about the unaccountables.
When and where can we collect our Double-Double Animal-style burgers?

[WayOutWest]

The Shaq we all saw the first two seasons in Miami was not the Shaq we would have seen had he stayed in LA.  I honestly can't believe people can see that trade as anything but the right decision, a tough decision, but the right one for the future of the franchise.

I agree msc BUT had the Lakers got rid of Kobe and kept Shaq you might have seen the Miami Shaq in L.A.  But unless the Lakers would have gotten Wade, a possibility actually if Kobe was the bait, there could have been a Shaq/Wade title in L.A.  But that would have been near impossible considering Kobe would have just opted out of his contract and no team would have wanted to trade a player of Wade's calibur just to rent Kobe for a year.  Now that I think about it Kobe was an FA by that time anyway so the Lakers couldn't have traded Kobe away anyway considering the trade clauses in his new contract.

[msc]

^^^ like i said msc about the unaccountables.
When and where can we collect our Double-Double Animal-style burgers?

A bet is a bet and I lost fair and square.  I'll buy you a double double any time or send you the $3.50, either way brotha, you let me know 

Losing a bet is one thing, I'm cool with that.  However, implying that I or any Laker fan on here said that LA's championships were all due to Kobe and not Shaq was bs and your "calling me out" post had absolutely no relevance to rick's initial post which he has since so graciously rescinded. 

[msc]

Now that I think about it Kobe was an FA by that time anyway so the Lakers couldn't have traded Kobe away anyway considering the trade clauses in his new contract.

Exactly. When you think about it, both Shaq and Kobe had Buss by the short and curly's.  Shaq by virtue of just continuing to be a lazy-arse and Kobe could have just signed elsewhere.  Everyone focuses on Shaq for Odom/Butler/Grant, but it really was a good move.  The Lakers aren't there yet, but they've got a lot of young talent, some potential trade bait and cap space coming down the road after this season.  The pieces are in place to build something now, whereas, IMO had you gone the Shaq $60mil extension route, sure you could have drawn a key free agent or two, but with Shaq barely making it through a season these days, I don't think your automatically collecting rings at that point.  Plus you'd be starting the rebuild process now vs. 3 yrs ago. 

Miami won it last year, and you can't take anything from them, but let's face it, Dallas had them down and couldn't step on their necks.  I'm actually glad they didn't b/c I hate Mark Cuban, whereas I pretty much am indifferent to Miami and love Wade and Riley, of course.  It's going to suck this year when that little Napoleonic jerk off wins the title.  Dallas is looking darn tough to beat right now and I'm pretty much rooting for Spurs, Suns, Detroit, or whoever can stop them. 

[WayOutWest]

msc,

IMO the only team that can beat Dallas is Phoenix.  Dallas has the formula to beat SA, they've got enough big bodies to give TD a hard time and Parker and GNob are not going to win any series for the Spurs.  The Mavs have the weapons to go at the Spurs big three for a full 48.  The Spurs just can't keep up.

The Suns on the other hand can just run over the Mavs, the Mavs are not that good defensivly so the Suns/Mavs series could turn into a shooting match.

That being said, I'd put money on the Mavs winning it all this year.

[Reality]

msc

  A bet is a bet and I lost fair and square.  I'll buy you a double double any time or send you the $3.50, either way brotha, you let me know 
Losing a bet is one thing, I'm cool with that.

Very good.  Next time I am forced to go to L.A. i will keep that in mind.

However, implying that I or any Laker fan on here said that LA's championships were all due to Kobe and not Shaq was bs and your "calling me out" post had absolutely no relevance to rick's initial post which he has since so graciously rescinded. 

I have no idea what you are talking about.
and rick must have become "objective" now, right?

WOW stop with the extension talk and trading Kobe for no return.
Do i need to buy you Lakers a copy of Phil Jacksons book?
Before the trade deadline 2003-4, mensas.

[WayOutWest]

WOW stop with the extension talk and trading Kobe for no return.
Do i need to buy you Lakers a copy of Phil Jacksons book?
Before the trade deadline 2003-4, mensas.

I don't think you understand the position Kobe had on the Lakers.  They would have gotten nothing because Kobe would of and DID excersise his option to become an FA.