SuperManu back to 05 Finals MVP form

[Reality]

For a night anyway.
Saw the 4th, if i could stream it i would, not geeky enough.

5:24 Manu Ginobili makes free throw 2 of 2 82-75
5:01 Manu Ginobili defensive rebound 82-75
4:13 82-75 Earl Boykins lost ball (Manu Ginobili steals)
2:51 Manu Ginobili makes two point shot 84-77
1:44 Manu Ginobili makes 16-foot two point shot 86-80
1:35 86-80 Marcus Camby lost ball (Manu Ginobili steals)
1:31 Tony Parker makes layup (Manu Ginobili assists) 88-80
0:30 Manu Ginobili makes driving layup 90-83
0:25 90-83 Allen Iverson lost ball (Manu Ginobili steals)
0:22 Tony Parker makes layup (Manu Ginobili assists) 92-83
0:00 End of the 4th Quarter
0:00 End Game
Where is Randolph?  I think he would like to see this.

[WayOutWest]

5:24 Manu Ginobili makes free throw 1 of 2 81-75
For a night anyway.
Saw the 4th, if i could stream it i would, not geeky enough.

5:24 Manu Ginobili makes free throw 2 of 2 82-75
5:01 Manu Ginobili defensive rebound 82-75
4:13 82-75 Earl Boykins lost ball (Manu Ginobili steals)
2:51 Manu Ginobili makes two point shot 84-77
1:44 Manu Ginobili makes 16-foot two point shot 86-80
1:35 86-80 Marcus Camby lost ball (Manu Ginobili steals)
1:31 Tony Parker makes layup (Manu Ginobili assists) 88-80
0:30 Manu Ginobili makes driving layup 90-83
0:25 90-83 Allen Iverson lost ball (Manu Ginobili steals)
0:22 Tony Parker makes layup (Manu Ginobili assists) 92-83
0:00 End of the 4th Quarter
0:00 End Game
Where is Randolph?  I think he would like to see this.

So I guess all those Bynum jock ridders were right, Bynum is the next Wilt Chamberlin based on a couple of games.  While Manu is definately a bonified star in the league, he's still 3rd tier player in my book.  Alot of Suns and especially Mavs fans have written off the Spurs.  IMO the Spurs are still championship calibur, they're not the clear cut favorites like in years past but they have a legit shot.  IMO the Mavs are the front runners despite the hot Suns.  I really don't know how the big three stack up but based on past performances I'd put the Mavs at #1, Spurs at #2 and the Suns at #3.  Beyond that it really doesn't matter IMO, one of those three will come out of the West, who knows what they will face from the East but I think this year the WC champ will win it all.

[Lurker]

8 points, 3 steals, 2 assts, 1 reb in the final 5 1/2 minutes of a tight game on the road (Denver no less).  That is not something that 3rd tier players do.  That is something the TMacs, Kobes, Wades of the league do.




Disclaimer:  This is not meant to suggest, insinuate or in any form claim that Manu is a superstar.

[WayOutWest]

8 points, 3 steals, 2 assts, 1 reb in the final 5 1/2 minutes of a tight game on the road (Denver no less).  That is not something that 3rd tier players do.  That is something the TMacs, Kobes, Wades of the league do.

The difference is those guys do it on a regular basis, not to mention they are the main offensive threat and the defensive focus of the opposing team. 

[Lurker]

8 points, 3 steals, 2 assts, 1 reb in the final 5 1/2 minutes of a tight game on the road (Denver no less).  That is not something that 3rd tier players do.  That is something the TMacs, Kobes, Wades of the league do.

The difference is those guys do it on a regular basis, not to mention they are the main offensive threat and the defensive focus of the opposing team. 

Manu does it more often than given credit for...especially by the posters on this board.  Part of the problem is that if Kobe did it we would hear about for 3 days on Sportscenter.  When Manu does it it doesn't even make the highlights.

Also if any team bothered to scout the Spurs then they would know that Manu is the first offensive option late in the 4th quarter.  The offense runs through him.  But more impressive is the combination of offense and defense.  He CONTROLLED the court at BOTH ends.  Not something a 3rd tier player even does occasionally.

[Reality]

8 points, 3 steals, 2 assts, 1 reb in the final 5 1/2 minutes of a tight game on the road (Denver no less).  That is not something that 3rd tier players do.  That is something the TMacs, Kobes, Wades of the league do.

The difference is those guys do it on a regular basis, not to mention they are the main offensive threat and the defensive focus of the opposing team. 

Which could make SuperManus even more impressive, that he is not the #1 option.  Except that he is in many a Spurs 4th qtr.
The others close out games with that much O & D variety on a regular basis my ass.
You produce regular box scores like that and I'll salt and pepper and eat it.
ESPN/Kobe network would be all over it if he did.

[westkoast]

8 points, 3 steals, 2 assts, 1 reb in the final 5 1/2 minutes of a tight game on the road (Denver no less).  That is not something that 3rd tier players do.  That is something the TMacs, Kobes, Wades of the league do.




Disclaimer:  This is not meant to suggest, insinuate or in any form claim that Manu is a superstar.

Very impressive stat line but I don't think he is MVP caliber.  Not even Reality thinks that.  And Manu is all-star caliber but is not the #1 option on his team.  Maybe #2 now that Parker is hurting.

Boy is Denver really sucking it up with Melo and Co gone.  I thought AI would help them a bit but they've dropped alot of games.

Kobe is the man in the 4th in just about every game.  Sure ESPN shows it all the time, it is because people want to see superstars.  Maybe you guys should start up RealitySPN so we can watch highlights on Brent Barry, Manu, Fabs,  and Chris Kaman all night?

[Skandery]

Manu does it more often than given credit for...especially by the posters on this board.

HEY!!!.......

[Lurker]

Brent Barry, Manu, Fabs,  and Chris Kaman all night?

One of these things don't belong.....





Hint: And it is not the LA player.

[WayOutWest]

Manu does it more often than given credit for...especially by the posters on this board.  Part of the problem is that if Kobe did it we would hear about for 3 days on Sportscenter.  When Manu does it it doesn't even make the highlights.

Also if any team bothered to scout the Spurs then they would know that Manu is the first offensive option late in the 4th quarter.  The offense runs through him.  But more impressive is the combination of offense and defense.  He CONTROLLED the court at BOTH ends.  Not something a 3rd tier player even does occasionally.

It seems very similar to the first title year for Kobe/Shaq.  Kobe was the closer, but even then Shaq was still the focus and Kobe didn't get much press but those in the "know" knew who should be taking the last shot or having the ball in their hands on a critical possesion.  With Kobe/Shaq the problem was Shaq's FT's, you knew you were in trouble going into Shaq for the last shot, that's not the case with TD, TD is the first option for a game winning shot.  It wasn't until the 2nd/3rd title years that Kobe was recognized for what he was to the Lakers by the general public.  Manu seems stuck in year one, I just don't see the consistency, part of the problem is the Spurs don't get the airtime on a national level and the other part is when I do get to see him he looks like the same inconsistent 3rd tier player.  You guys act like 3rd tier player equals scrub, we went over this before, a 3rd tier player can still be a star, even an all-star.  IMO a 1st tier player is a timeless franchise player, while a 2nd tier player is a current franchise player that's not in the timeless catagorey.  Shaq, TD, Kareem and MJ are examples of 1st tier, Brand, T-Mac, Ewing and Robinson are examples of 2nd tier.  You build teams around 1st and 2nd tier players, not around 3rd tier unless you're in bad shape.

[Lurker]

You build teams around 1st and 2nd tier players, not around 3rd tier unless you're in bad shape.

Poor Argentina...seems like they need to return all those gold medals.   

[Reality]

WOW Shaq, TD, Kareem and MJ are examples of 1st tier, Brand, T-Mac, Ewing and Robinson are examples of 2nd tier.  You build teams around 1st and 2nd tier players, not around 3rd tier unless you're in bad shape.

Thread was not asking whom to build a team around, but rather acknowledging that Manus hot spurts can rank with any 1st tier player up there, esp in terms of versatiltiy.  That he does not spurt every game for a season, no argument here, he doesn't.

Will agree that Manu is not consistent.  However when he is good, he is very good.  2003 and 2005 playoffs as proof.

And no, the Kobester did not have this versatile of a game close, even in the two title years.

I repeat, i want GNob and Kobester on the same team after this year.  If Pop blows another title window chance, I will consider Manu in Perple n Gold.
If Spurs title, it will take an absolute meltdown collapse by LAL for the Kobester to come over to SA now.  After Kobes 1st 34-46 year it was possible.  Not with the vibe the Lakers have going now.  Feelin you msc and Lakers.

[msc]

Manu's a great player, no question.  IMO a solid 2nd tier guy.  I love his game and his performance highlighted in this thread looks like it was impressive (I didn't see the game). 

All that being said, I'd me more impressed with the performance if it weren't against Denver.  I'm not trying to make a backhanded compliment toward Manu, but rather to point out the Denver (I should be calling them Enver) hasn't even been trying to play defense of late.  I've watched a couple of their games over the past week or so and it has literally looked like a lay-up drill for the opposition.  I know they'll be a better offensive team when Carmelo comes back, but they better find a way to protect the basket better or they won't have a chance of making the playoffs.  Maybe they're trying to follow Phoenix's formula of outscoring their opponent, but even with AI and Melo, they don't have the balanced attack that Phoenix does .... or a true distributor like Nash. 

[Lurker]

All that being said, I'd me more impressed with the performance if it weren't against Denver.  I'm not trying to make a backhanded compliment toward Manu, but rather to point out the Denver (I should be calling them Enver) hasn't even been trying to play defense of late.  I've watched a couple of their games over the past week or so and it has literally looked like a lay-up drill for the opposition.  I know they'll be a better offensive team when Carmelo comes back, but they better find a way to protect the basket better or they won't have a chance of making the playoffs.  Maybe they're trying to follow Phoenix's formula of outscoring their opponent, but even with AI and Melo, they don't have the balanced attack that Phoenix does .... or a true distributor like Nash. 

I have to agree with that, msc.   Everyone talks about how explosive the team will be once Melo gets back but what I saw was a team that desparately needs KMart back (the tough, defensive minded one).  The Spurs were at the rim at will.  Also someone will have to convince JR Smith that he has a new role on the team...Bruce Bowen.  Defensive specialist & 3 point shooter.

[WayOutWest]

You build teams around 1st and 2nd tier players, not around 3rd tier unless you're in bad shape.

Poor Argentina...seems like they need to return all those gold medals.   

I guess if we're going to venture into the land of "I give and will just post stupid shit", I'll pass.