Author Topic: SI.com rumors & truths --- Any of these sound appealing?Or just down right silly  (Read 7059 times)

Offline JoMal

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I think it's totally fair to blame Artest given his track record.  He's single handidly sabotaged two teams and now it appears he's working on his third.  That said, I don't think team chemistry issues are ever 100% due to one thing, but rather a combination of factors.  However, one can't deny that Artest has been direcetly involved in chemistry issues everywhere he goes.  There is now an undeniable pattern.  

I don't think it's fair to compare Artest to Shareef Abdur Rahim.  For starters Shareef doesn't have a list of detrimental actions as long as the Nile River like Artest does.  As far as I can see, Shareef is a good guy, he maybe hasen't lived up to his on court potential, but he's not a bad apple.  The same can't be said for Artest.  He is the definition of a Bad Apple.  It's not like Artest is a Rod Strickland, or Sam Cassell type cancer.  No, this guy is the team cancer of all team cancers.  He has established himself as the cancer by which all other cancers will now be measured.  


Artest is not the problem the Kings are having this season.

He also has hardly been any kind of cancer on the Kings. Just the opposite, actually. Young players like Price, Garcia, and Martin have been greatly helped by Artest's tutoring since pre-season. Early in the year, Artest wanted the ball and was hogging it to an extent, which annoyed Bibby and caused something of a rift between them. Lately, Artest has not been demanding the ball, has been passing it more, (especially with Martin, who he thinks should take more shots for the team). Bibby has noticed and has been passing it into Artest in the lane, and when Artest gets a hot shooting hand, he has been telling Ron to not pass up open shots, so that rift seems to at least for now been resolved.

Biggest problem Ron is having up to now has been his health issues - first his back, which still bothers him, and lately his sore knees, which apparently is limiting him and probably prompted him to be more a team player on offense.

All the trade talk involving Artest originated around Christmas, when Ron took himself out of a game 55 minutes before tipoff, due to those sore knees, which was one of those warning signs everyone has mentioned about Artest, and got Petrie on the phone with the Clippers about a deal for Maggette. Since then, rumors about the Kings trading Artest has kept the wires hot, and just about every team looking for a deal has come calling to Petrie. He has been listening, but believe me, unless the deal involves a top-of-the-line front court player, it ain't going to happen. Since Petrie thought better about equating Maggette with Artest, talent-wise, he nixed that deal almost immediately, after his initial contact with Baylor.

Are there chemistry problems on the Kings? Unfortunately, yes. But the biggest problem is between Rahim and Kenny Thomas at the power forward position. If Musselman can play them together, it actually is not so bad, but Thomas sees himself as a starter, while SAR would like to start, but does not mouth off about it like Thomas does, being of a milder temperment. His annoyance with Thomas claiming his skills warrant the starting nod, however DOES rankle Sharif a bit. This is the area where the Kings find themselves in a hopeless situation. Opposing teams are killing the Kings by exploiting the weak interior defense.

Artest can't defend seven foot power forwards and neither can Thomas, Rahim, nor Miller, for that matter.

And if you question why teams would add a "cancer" to their mix by trading for Artest, you might ask all those teams out there that HAVE been burning up the phone lines to Petrie after he made that call to Baylor, all asking for Ron Artest. Apparently a little controversy - okay, A LOT of controversy, is no deterent to getting a player with the abilities of a Ron Artest.
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Offline JoMal

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Unless one of those players balloons up to 6'10" and 280 lbs, and becomes a rebounding and shot blocking freak, forget it.

All right you're gonna play hardball.  Don't blame you, seeing Artests influence in the playoffs.  Okay you got it.
You get Matt Bonner.

Does he come with balloons, because if he doesn't, you can keep him too.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline JoMal

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I admit I would drool if it was a possibility.

It was a possibilty just last year and I'm thankful every day it never happened.

Hindsight is 20/20, but this current Laker team appears to have developed a wonderful comeradere and chemistry and I'd hate to see that ruined by a d!@#-head like Ron Ron. 



On this point, you are very correct. I could not see Ron Artest in a Laker uniform either, and for those reasons.

Though Ron has noticably tried to fit in with the Kings, he would be under such a microscope in Los Angeles, it would ultimately blow up, and probably over a little thing.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline westkoast

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I don't think it is fair to blame the chemistry issues soley on Ron Artest's shoulders in SAC.  There is/was alot going on up there in the last two seasons.  On top of that, Mike Bibby is the one who seems to be miffed.  Artest should be more of a focus on the offense.  With him on the block they are going to have no problem getting easy hoops isntead of jacking up jump shots.

I guess it falls under a Rahim type curse.  Rahim is not the reason why all the team he has been on have not done so well.  Just like it has not always been Ron Artest's fault for what is going wrong with this SAC squad.

I think it's totally fair to blame Artest given his track record.  He's single handidly sabotaged two teams and now it appears he's working on his third.  That said, I don't think team chemistry issues are ever 100% due to one thing, but rather a combination of factors.  However, one can't deny that Artest has been direcetly involved in chemistry issues everywhere he goes.  There is now an undeniable pattern.  

I don't think it's fair to compare Artest to Shareef Abdur Rahim.  For starters Shareef doesn't have a list of detrimental actions as long as the Nile River like Artest does.  As far as I can see, Shareef is a good guy, he maybe hasen't lived up to his on court potential, but he's not a bad apple.  The same can't be said for Artest.  He is the definition of a Bad Apple.  It's not like Artest is a Rod Strickland, or Sam Cassell type cancer.  No, this guy is the team cancer of all team cancers.  He has established himself as the cancer by which all other cancers will now be measured.  

I've always believed that people are allowed to try to change for the better.   It is hard to let people do that if you keep holding past mistakes against them no matter what.  So far Ron Artest has not done anything wrong in SAC.  In fact he has done quite the opposite according to papers and our resident Kings fan.  If he does something wrong then I will take pictures of myself eating a boot or a crow with a MSC is the man shirt!  I will give him the benefit of the doubt right now.  People can change.  Although I understand why you are hesistant to believe he has.  I didn't think Artest was a major problem in Chi, I thought they had a stupid front office who was dumping off quality players.  Brand left for less then peanuts.

I am not saying Rahim is a bad apple in the same vein as Artest.  What I am saying is that wherever Rahim goes the team has problems that are not really his fault per say.  Just like SAC is having problems right now that are not really Artest's fault.  Different system was not his fault, Bibby being a baby is not really his fault, and the sub-par play of the team overall is not his soley his fault.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2007, 05:03:56 PM by westkoast »
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Offline Skandery

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The man asked for rebound and shot-blocking -- two things my 3 year old cousin can do better than Matt Bonner.  :D 
"But guys like us, we don't pay attention to the polls. We know that polls are just a collection of statistics that reflect what people are thinking in 'reality'. And reality has a well-known liberal bias."

Offline msc

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Re: Artest. 

JoMal – You obviously have more insight to the day in day out goings on at Kings camp.  I don't doubt that for one second.  You're probably right, but there is a part of me that can't accept that it is purely coincidental that Artest is there and the team is now all of the sudden having major chemistry issues.  For your sake, I hope I'm wrong, but if I were a betting man I would bet that there is at least some kind of "incident" before his tenure in SAC is over. 

Like westkoast says everyone deserves a second chance and he's been good so far.  I hope that he has changed, it’s not about being right or wrong, but I doubt it.  I’ll use my examples from before, I could see guys like Cassell or Rod Strickland changing, but I honestly believe that Artest has serious mental problems; maybe he's bipolar or manic depressive. 

The past is the past, but it's tough for me to believe that this leopard will change his spots.  Lest we forget his past behaviors, here's a littler refresher. 

Ron Artest Timeline (from espn.com)
1999-00 season
Summer 1999: Before his rookie season, Artest applied for a part-time job at a Circuit City outlet in the Chicago area. But the Bulls stepped in before he could begin work ... and benefit from the employee discount.
Said Artest: "I thought it would be fun. And I had a friend who worked there."

October 4, 1999: Fined $5,000 and sent home from the league's rookie orientation for missing a meeting. Bulls GM Jerry Krause said Artest overslept, while also having a friend in his room when visitors weren't allowed.
2000-01 season

February 21, 2001: Suspended for one game and fined $7,500 for fighting with Glenn Robinson during Bulls-Bucks game.

June 13, 2001: Broke two of Michael Jordan's ribs during a pickup game. "I'm not sure what happened," Artest said in the Chicago Daily Herald. "I was just guarding him. I was just trying to get position because he was posting me up. I don't even recall him stopping for a brief second. ... I read it in the paper and was like, 'Man, Mike's ribs got broke. How'd his ribs get broke?'"

2001-02 season

February 19, 2002: Traded with Ron Mercer, Brad Miller and Kevin Ollie to Pacers for Jalen Rose, Travis Best, Norm Richardson and second-round pick.

May 25, 2002: Girlfriend Jennifer Palma, mother of one of Artest's sons, accused him of grabbing her around the neck and by the arm during an argument. No charges were filed, but she was given a protective order, which Artest allegedly violated several days later by calling her. Harassment and criminal contempt charges were later dropped.

2002-03 season
Sept. 15, 2002: Artest, now reunited with Kimsha Hatfield, his girlfriend of eight years and mother of his two oldest children, called the police claiming that she hit and scratched him. (The two are now married.)

December 19, 2002: Fined $10,000 for shoving the Mavericks' Raja Bell and failing to leave the court in a timely manner following his ejection, which occurred after he was given his second technical foul.

Jan 4, 2003: Suspended three games and fined $35,000 for smashing video equipment after a loss to the Knicks at Madison Square Garden.

January 30, 2003: Suspended four games (costing him $84,000) after confrontation with Heat coach Pat Riley on the sidelines during the game, then flipping his middle finger at the fans in Miami.
The incident boiled over in the fourth quarter when Artest scored and was fouled, and proceeded to flex his right arm while walking toward the Miami bench. Heat assistant coach Keith Askins exchanged words with Artest, who brushed against Riley. Riley, who was already hot because of an Artest flagrant foul on Caron Butler, began shouting with Artest and shoved him away.

Feb. 26, 2003: Suspended one game by Pacers for smashing a framed picture of himself in Conseco Fieldhouse.

March 9, 2003: Suspended one game for flagrant foul (sixth of the season, which led to automatic suspension) on Trail Blazers' Bonzi Wells.

March 13, 2003: Suspended one game for flagrant foul (seventh of the season, which led to automatic suspension) on 76ers' Eric Snow.

March 20, 2003: Suspended two games for flagrant foul on the Celtics' Paul Pierce five seconds into the game. Eighth flagrant foul called for automatic two game suspension.

April 3, 2003: Fined $20,000 for making an obscene gesture to the crowd in Cleveland.

2003-04 season

Feb. 16, 2004: Made his first All-Star appearance in style, by changing -- and mismatching -- sneakers throughout the game, in the hopes of landing a shoe contract.
Said Artest's agent, Mark Bartelstein: "We've been in negotiations with several different companies for a few months now. We didn't feel it was right to just wear one brand."

March 19, 2004: Suspended one game for elbowing the Trail Blazers' Derek Anderson during game.

May 25, 2004: Fined $10,000 for making an obscene gesture during Eastern Conference Finals against the Pistons.

June 1, 2004: Took a shot at Richard Hamilton's masked face and was called for a flagrant foul late in the fourth quarter of Game 6 of the Eastern Conference Finals, which appeared to ignite the Pistons, who would eliminate the Pacers shortly thereafter.
Said Artest of the call: "(Hamilton's) so skinny that they [the referees] didn't see it," Artest said. "I just put up my hands on him."

2004-05 season
Nov. 9-10, 2004: Benched for two games after he asked for time off to promote the release of his upcoming rap album.
"When I decided I wanted to leave the game or take a month off, I'm a grown man," Artest told ESPN. "It doesn't make me crazy to want to do something that I want to do. ... You can be anything you want to be.
"I want to be a musician. I want to own my own label and I want to be MVP and win the championship of the NBA. I feel I can do anything I want to do. I have two goals this year. I want to go platinum or have my girls, Allure, go platinum, and win the NBA championship."

Nov. 19, 2004: Charged into the stands at the Palace of Auburn Hills to attack a fan who had thrown a cup at him. Two days later, he was suspended for the remainder of the season. Artest pleaded no contest to assault and battery charges and was sentenced to a year of probation, community service, anger management counseling and a $250 fine. He missed 73 regular-season games and 13 playoff games in total, while also losing $4,995,000 in salary.
2005-06 season

October 11, 2005: Said Artest on new season: "I'm going to continue playing hard and out of control, like a wild animal that needs to be caged in."

October 2005: Appearing on the cover of the December issue of Penthouse, Artest said in the interview that he wanted to box Ben Wallace on pay-per-view.

December 10, 2005: In a one-on-one interview with the Indianapolis Star, Artest suggests the Pacers trade him. "If the trade rumors, if there is any truth -- maybe it won't be a bad thing. They probably could win more games without me. ... If I go to the West Coast, I would come back to New York after my contract is up. ... I would go to Cleveland. I wouldn't mind coming off the bench behind LeBron James. There's a lot of players I wouldn't mind coming off the bench behind."
In the interview, Artest also criticized coach Rick Carlisle, who would bench Artest for two games. "I like Coach [Carlisle] as a person, but I don't like playing for Coach. I like my team, though. ... Don't get it twisted. He's a very good coach. He knows what he's doing. I personally don't like playing for him."

December 12, 2005: Placed on inactive list.

December 15, 2005: Fined $10,000 for making public statements that he wanted to be traded. Said NBA senior vice president and general counsel Rick Buchanan: "Public trade demands by players was a subject discussed at length during collective bargaining negotiations this summer. The damage caused by these kind of statements was commonly understood, as was the NBA's intention to hold players accountable for such statements going forward."

December 17, 2005: Has a change of heart. Said Artest in the Indianapolis Star: "I should have been a man and spoken with coach [Rick Carlisle] about my differences with him. Yes, I would like to return to the team."

January 1, 2006: Artest, whose self-titled CD hits stores this summer, told the New York Post that his New Year's resolution is to: "Teach math classes in elementary schools throughout the country. And, of course, I want to sell 10 million records."

January 24, 2006: Traded to Kings for Stojakovic, but trade falls through because Artest does not want to play in Sacramento.
"We waited for about an hour and half," Pacers prez Donnie Walsh told ESPN.com. "By then, I knew there was trouble. Geoff got on the phone at about 5:30 p.m. and told me that the deal was off. That Ronnie's agent [Mark Stevens] had called and told him Ronnie didn't want to play there and then called the owners. It scared them both off.
"I told Geoff that I didn't think that Ronnie meant what his agent was saying and asked him if they'd wait until the morning for us to get this sorted out. ... I wasn't happy."

Offline JoMal

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msc, that is an amazing litany of bad behavior, to say the least.

Above all else, I am <hoping> that Ron behaves himself while in Sacramento. If nothing else, I have to think that someone must have shown Artest your list there, because he is striving NOT to mess up. As your list attest to, he was prone to getting flagrant fouls in the past, but those have dried up, at least for now. He also would bait opponents, like he did with the Heat and Pat Riley. So far, none of that has been going on in Sacramento, but the perverbial shoe may fall at any time.

You mention he may be bi-polar or suffer from some other mental illness. This may very well be true, and before he was traded to Sacramento, those sentiments were voiced by me as well. He certainly is up and down, but, again, to his credit, he is either bottling up the urge to explode, or he is learning to manage the anger or whatever more like a normal person.

Could he be medicated? Makes you wonder.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline msc

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JoMal, I agree with you.  His flagrants have dissapeared and for all acounts he's been a good boy since arriving in SAC.  I think it could be one of two things, or a combination of both. 

1)  Being suspended pending a trade by Indy and sitting around for several months he may have finally realized that he can't continue to behave so irrationally.  The realization that this may be his last chance to secure another big contract would be enough to motivate just about anyone. 

2)  Maybe he sought professional help and is receiving counseling and/or medication. 

For your sake I hope it's a combination of 1 and 2 b/c that might be enough to keep him behaving in a healthy manner.  However, if it's just medication and he decides to go off of it ... I would think the old Ron Ron might come back. 

Time will tell, again, I hope both you and westkoast are right in that he has changed. 

All that being said, the one thing I do know is that Reality's trade proposal would be a lose-lose for both teams. 



Offline westkoast

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JoMal, I agree with you.  His flagrants have dissapeared and for all acounts he's been a good boy since arriving in SAC.  I think it could be one of two things, or a combination of both. 

1)  Being suspended pending a trade by Indy and sitting around for several months he may have finally realized that he can't continue to behave so irrationally.  The realization that this may be his last chance to secure another big contract would be enough to motivate just about anyone. 

2)  Maybe he sought professional help and is receiving counseling and/or medication. 

For your sake I hope it's a combination of 1 and 2 b/c that might be enough to keep him behaving in a healthy manner.  However, if it's just medication and he decides to go off of it ... I would think the old Ron Ron might come back. 

Time will tell, again, I hope both you and westkoast are right in that he has changed. 

All that being said, the one thing I do know is that Reality's trade proposal would be a lose-lose for both teams. 




I honestly believe #1 is what happend.  Knowing where Ron Artest grew up I would think that the chance to make millions of dollars for a decade or so would be the b-slap across the face he needed.  The only people who have made serious money from where Ron is from are a few rappers I can count on my hand.    Quite frankly, this probably is his last chance to play ball in the NBA for large sums of money.  He seems to understand that.

I totally understand where you are coming from though.  After going through that list I think it would be hard for anyone to read that and still not have a lingering thought that it is only a matter of games before he blows up.  Who knows though.  I guess that is the problem, no one knows, not even Ron Ron at times.

Reality's trades are always silly.  If it was up to him he would build a team with even less defense then the Pheonix Suns.
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Offline WayOutWest

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FYI guys, Ron does have mental problems and they do require medication.  It was in an ESPN article durring his suspension after the Pistons/Pacers brawl.
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Offline Derek Bodner

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told ya it was just a matter of days:

Webber gone

Offline westkoast

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told ya it was just a matter of days:

Webber gone

Webber is listed on the team's salary cap at $20,718,750 this season and is due $22,312,500 next season.

What happened to the barf smiley?
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Offline Reality

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told ya it was just a matter of days:

Webber gone
I'm confused.  Will this help or hurt Phillys pursual of losing games to obtain more lottery balls?

Offline JoMal

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I am amazed that Webber agreed to a buyout. It tells you two things:

1- Even Webber feels he is overpaid for what he now can contribute.

2- Webber feels he still can play for someone.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline Lurker

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2- Webber feels he still can play for someone.

But is the feeling mutual...does anyone feel that Webber can play for them.  And actually contribute.
It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave.  Keep on thinking free.
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