Author Topic: Bynum full time  (Read 6661 times)

Offline Randy

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Re: Bynum full time
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2006, 11:39:55 AM »
I don't think it's a reach at all -- you devise a game plan around your best player.  You CAN put TD under the basket but he is far better facing the basket around 18'.  So you find someone who is a good rebounder/defender and forego the offense (there are a TON of guys in the league like this) -- it's the way PJ ran the Bulls offense for years.  They didn't have a "stereotypical center" -- they used their center at 18' to spread the floor and used Rodman to rebound the basketball.  The gameplan worked VERY well.  Why wouldn't you do the same with TD?

TD is going to play the center position on defense -- that's also his strength -- but offensively putting him in the blocks under the basket is a mistake.

The center position has changed a great deal over the years -- when we talk about center, how many of us think of a center posting up on the blocks (i.e. Shaq, Wilt, etc.) who dominates the post offensively and defensively.  That's NOT TD's game.  There are a ton of guys out there right now who play the center position -- doesn't really make them a center, though, does it?

Offline JoMal

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Re: Bynum full time
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2006, 12:06:11 PM »
Randy, are you suggesting a name change for the position? What a novel idea!

Since so few true centers exist in the present and even fewer are being forecast coming into the League any time soon, perhaps it is time to re-evaluate this spot on the court.

Let's see, we have Point Guard, Shooting Guard, Small Forward, and Power Forward.

How about Low Blocker? No? Lane Changer? Hymm. Floor Spreader? No, sounds too much like some kind of construction contractor. Push Shover? High Post? Getting closer, I think.

Ideas?
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Bynum full time
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2006, 12:37:45 PM »
A true 7 footer with post moves not seen since Kevin McHale...hmmmm....what should we do?  I've got a brilliant idea, let's put him 18 feet from the rim.  That just sounds stupid to me, I've seen TD go at Shaq, Dampier and the like, big bruisers, for YEARS and he's effective on the blocks.  I'll take a 3 foot jump hook over a 15 foot bank shot ANY day of the week.

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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Bynum full time
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2006, 12:52:04 PM »
WAIT! WAIT! WAIT! WAIT! WAIT! WAIT! WAIT! WAIT!

WTF!!!!  This is a thread about a LAKER, let's get back on topic NOW! 

Kobe ROCKS!
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Offline Skandery

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Re: Bynum full time
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2006, 12:55:16 PM »
Quote
I don't think it's a reach at all -- you devise a game plan around your best player.  You CAN put TD under the basket but he is far better facing the basket around 18'.  So you find someone who is a good rebounder/defender and forego the offense (there are a TON of guys in the league like this) -- it's the way PJ ran the Bulls offense for years.  They didn't have a "stereotypical center" -- they used their center at 18' to spread the floor and used Rodman to rebound the basketball.  The gameplan worked VERY well.  Why wouldn't you do the same with TD?

Are you FREAKIN' kidding me, Randy?  This has gotta be a joke!! :o

Tim Duncan, one of the most dominant LOW-post big men in the history of basketball and you want to develop his game from 18 feet.  WORST!!  Use him the way Phil Jackson used the likes of Luc Longley and Bill Wennington to spread the floor?  Tim Duncan IS the floor, other players spread it for him.  Its true Tim Duncan has a good perimeter shot and bankshot, its true he's not awkward with the dribble and can get to the rim, its NOT true that you use that as an excuse to take him away from the LOW post where he will wear anyone down with a combination of strength, speed, agility, footwork, and creativity ON THE BLOCK.

 
Quote
A true 7 footer with post moves not seen since Kevin McHale...hmmmm....what should we do?  I've got a brilliant idea, let's put him 18 feet from the rim.  That just sounds stupid to me, I've seen TD go at Shaq, Dampier and the like, big bruisers, for YEARS and he's effective on the blocks.

Thank the good lord for some sense around here.

 
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Offline Skandery

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Re: Bynum full time
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2006, 12:56:39 PM »
Quote
WAIT! WAIT! WAIT! WAIT! WAIT! WAIT! WAIT! WAIT!

WTF!!!!  This is a thread about a LAKER, let's get back on topic NOW!


Okay....





Bynum SUCKS!!  ;D
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Bynum full time
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2006, 01:04:01 PM »
Okay....

Bynum SUCKS!!  ;D

Uhmmmm....oh yea?!?!  Where's westkoast?
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
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"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline Joe Vancil

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Re: Bynum full time
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2006, 01:48:20 PM »
Randy,

So, because Nowitzki is more effective playing the outside game than the inside game, he obviously should not be bad-mouthed for not going to the goal more often.  That's what you're arguing.

I'm with WayOut - I'd rather have Duncan and the jump-hook at 3 feet than Duncan's bank shot at 18.

Perhaps being a Laker fan for so long (or perhaps just the necessity of defending the selection of Kobe over Shaq) has blinded you to the fact that post basketball is dominant basketball.  I'm sorry, but I'm a Jazz fan.  I watched two sets of Finals where Karl Malone, a dominant interior presence, decided to (try to) prove he was a good perimeter shooter.  Shot us clean out of the 1997 Finals, and did a pretty good job of the same in 1998.  I still remember Skander and me screaming at the TV in 1997, "Take it to the goal!"  (Followed it up by watching 5 years of Finals where the dominance of an inside big man led his team to the championship.  Then watched a year of a dominant inside big man being looked off in favor of the outside shooter, and losing because of it.)  Duncan falling in love with the outside shot is bad news for Duncan and bad news for the Spurs just the same way that Malone falling in love with it was bad news for the Jazz.

If you've got an elite-level big man who is elite-level in the post, you're most successful if you use him in the post - even if he's better as an elite-level perimeter player than he is as an elitel-level post player.  That's because perimeter players are a dime a dozen, and elite post players are rare, rare, rare.

If Andrew Bynum develops a nice 18-foot bank shot, but still has his nice post moves, there's no way I'll hear you saying, "We need to move Andrew Bynum to the perimeter.  After all, we've got Chris Mihm we can use in the post."

Joe

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Offline westkoast

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Re: Bynum full time
« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2006, 02:05:19 PM »
Okay....

Bynum SUCKS!!  ;D

Uhmmmm....oh yea?!?!  Where's westkoast?

Right here ese!  Chalas Holmes.

You know who else sucks?  The X-Men Character Arch Angel.  He was such a wuss in the movie!!!  He is the Flabs of Mutants!
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Offline Randy

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Re: Bynum full time
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2006, 02:17:10 PM »
Okay....

Bynum SUCKS!!  ;D

Uhmmmm....oh yea?!?!  Where's westkoast?

Right here ese!  Chalas Holmes.

You know who else sucks?  The X-Men Character Arch Angel.  He was such a wuss in the movie!!!  He is the Flabs of Mutants!

Okay, not THAT is ridiculous!  First, he wasn't Arch Angel in the movie -- he was Angel.  Second, the movies have screwed up the entire line-up of the movie -- Angel was an original X-Men from the 60's.  He was made into one of the 4 horseman by Apocolypse and turned into Archangel (metal wings along the lines of admantium).  Later, he had his metal wings removed and grew back his original wings. 

Now back to regularly scheduled programming.

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Bynum full time
« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2006, 02:25:06 PM »
Okay....

Bynum SUCKS!!  ;D

Uhmmmm....oh yea?!?!  Where's westkoast?

Right here ese!  Chalas Holmes.

You know who else sucks?  The X-Men Character Arch Angel.  He was such a wuss in the movie!!!  He is the Flabs of Mutants!

Actually Flabs is more like the movie version of Rouge.  Her powers are pretty useless and have only been used for evil.
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Offline Randy

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Re: Bynum full time
« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2006, 02:25:44 PM »
Quote
I don't think it's a reach at all -- you devise a game plan around your best player.  You CAN put TD under the basket but he is far better facing the basket around 18'.  So you find someone who is a good rebounder/defender and forego the offense (there are a TON of guys in the league like this) -- it's the way PJ ran the Bulls offense for years.  They didn't have a "stereotypical center" -- they used their center at 18' to spread the floor and used Rodman to rebound the basketball.  The gameplan worked VERY well.  Why wouldn't you do the same with TD?

Are you FREAKIN' kidding me, Randy?  This has gotta be a joke!! :o

Tim Duncan, one of the most dominant LOW-post big men in the history of basketball and you want to develop his game from 18 feet.  WORST!!  Use him the way Phil Jackson used the likes of Luc Longley and Bill Wennington to spread the floor?  Tim Duncan IS the floor, other players spread it for him.  Its true Tim Duncan has a good perimeter shot and bankshot, its true he's not awkward with the dribble and can get to the rim, its NOT true that you use that as an excuse to take him away from the LOW post where he will wear anyone down with a combination of strength, speed, agility, footwork, and creativity ON THE BLOCK.
Quote

Sometimes I wonder if you guys actually even WATCH any basketball!  So how does Fabs get his points -- by standing UNDER the basket waiting for TD to pass him the ball.  Hmm, if TD is on the blocks (where you guys say he is) then why isn't Fabs running into him.  

I guess I've been watching the Spurs from another dimension!  Wow, now I understand why koast started talking about comic books now!  

Quote
So, because Nowitzki is more effective playing the outside game than the inside game, he obviously should not be bad-mouthed for not going to the goal more often.  That's what you're arguing.

Nope, that's not what I said -- I said that you use his ability to knock down the 18' WITH the ability to drive to the basket -- I reference the Bulls for illustration.  

So what YOU are saying is that you should post Dirk up on the block -- hmm, haven't we seen how that fares?  Dirk is best at beating his man to the basket -- his ability to shoot outside and his ability to knock down the open shot from distance give him greater opportunities to do BOTH!  Man, this is a fundamental concept in basketball guys -- it's not that hard!

Offline Skandery

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Re: Bynum full time
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2006, 03:51:51 PM »
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Sometimes I wonder if you guys actually even WATCH any basketball!

I have, in fact, watched some basketball lately.  The last Spurs game I saw was against the Mavericks last Friday, in fact, I caught most of the second half.  I remember seeing Oberto score twice:  once on a pick-and-pop from the right side of the baseline, once on an offensive rebound-put back.

Tim Duncan plays in the low post and Oberto on a good day moves well without the ball and may get a dunk if someone is stupid enought to double up-court, otherwise he'll crash the boards or be setting a pick for someone on the perimeter.  By no means in any way, shape, or form is he taking Tim Duncan's spot on the block.  At this point, I have to question you're sanity, Randy.  Where you see Duncan as a mid-range, bank-shooting, slasher type, most sane, competent people realize he is an interior, LOW-post threat. 

At least I think most people on here are sane and competent, comments from the peanut gallery?.... 
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Offline Randy

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Re: Bynum full time
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2006, 05:06:27 PM »
Quote
Sometimes I wonder if you guys actually even WATCH any basketball!

I have, in fact, watched some basketball lately.  The last Spurs game I saw was against the Mavericks last Friday, in fact, I caught most of the second half.  I remember seeing Oberto score twice:  once on a pick-and-pop from the right side of the baseline, once on an offensive rebound-put back.

Tim Duncan plays in the low post and Oberto on a good day moves well without the ball and may get a dunk if someone is stupid enought to double up-court, otherwise he'll crash the boards or be setting a pick for someone on the perimeter.  By no means in any way, shape, or form is he taking Tim Duncan's spot on the block.  At this point, I have to question you're sanity, Randy.  Where you see Duncan as a mid-range, bank-shooting, slasher type, most sane, competent people realize he is an interior, LOW-post threat. 

At least I think most people on here are sane and competent, comments from the peanut gallery?.... 

lol -- your opinion matters little to me -- I guess all the time that I see TD working from about 18' is totally my imagination!  As for Fabs -- I saw the game where went, what 11 for 11 -- 80% of those were standing directly under the basket alone because his man was on TD (who wasn't parked under the basket).  But of course, that was my imagination, huh?   ::)

Offline Skandery

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Re: Bynum full time
« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2006, 01:23:27 AM »
No the huge, humongous, GINORMOUS sample size of 1 game wasn't your imagination. 

Have you, by any chance, seen the Spurs other 15 games.
"But guys like us, we don't pay attention to the polls. We know that polls are just a collection of statistics that reflect what people are thinking in 'reality'. And reality has a well-known liberal bias."