Author Topic: Keeper Declarations  (Read 11133 times)

Offline westkoast

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Keeper Declarations
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2006, 11:28:06 AM »
I am going to keep Chris Paul and Brad Miller

Sorry guys!
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Offline Lurker

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Keeper Declarations
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2006, 11:47:09 AM »
Quote
I am going to keep Chris Paul and Brad Miller

Sorry guys!
Rookie GMs.  Geesh...I bet even Kupchak didn't cause this much trouble...
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Offline Skandery

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Keeper Declarations
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2006, 11:53:29 AM »
...oh and SpursX3, don't listen to any of Joe's ridiculous offers.  They're just bad news for everyone involved except for the white-fur clad ones that is.  

 :D  
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Offline Joe Vancil

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Keeper Declarations
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2006, 11:54:38 AM »
...and much cursing goes on in Missouri, as Brad Miller is once again removed from the grasp of the Missouri guys.

You just made things a lot more interesting for me, Skander, and Caleb.
 
Joe

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Offline Joe Vancil

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Keeper Declarations
« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2006, 12:20:48 PM »
Actually, this one is pretty good:  an offer of a keeper-quality player OF HIS CHOICE with *FULL* eligibility, a move of a mid-round draft pick (For example, my 5th rounder (counting the two keeper rounds as 1 and 2) for his 6th - for Ray Allen, who has one year of eligibility left.

The reason I can afford to do this is that I'm confident that one of two players I would go after in round 5 are going to slip to round 6 at his spot, and if my #3 pick goes through as one of the two players I want (or one of the top players, who I don't want), then the player who I think he will want will slip back to me in round number 4....and I don't want that player.  I'll solve his problems of having too many 2-guards by giving him a keeper-quality replacement with full eligibility, get the 2-guard that I want, risk having trouble in round 5/6.  And I can do this because the players I'm going to keep next year are Gasol and my round 3 pick, so I don't care about Ray Allen's lesser eligibility.  Plus, I've already got my round 6 pick picked out, which acts as a safeguard if I don't get who I want in round 3.

Do I get the better of this deal?  Probably, *IF* I get one of those two players who I'm planning on picking in round 5 in round 6 at his spot, and it's a pretty fair risk, but one that I'm okay with.  The question for SpursX3 is whether Ray Allen with one year of eligibility is worth a full-eligible keeper of his choice, a late 5th round pick in exchange for a late 6th round pick, and potentially solving his logjam at 2-guard.  

Then again, he may feel he's getting the better of the offer.  And, to be quite honest, this deal is close enough that I think a LOT of folks will think that this isn't too bad of an offer, considering that he's essentially traded Ray Allen for the 16th pick and exchanged a pick in the 45-or-so range for pick 33.


Also, westkoast - I've got an offer for you that involves Rashard Lewis.

Scary thing is that I've done more preparation for this draft than I've done for any previous draft, and regardless, I know I'm not going to touch my teams from years 1-3.  (Year 4 - last year - everyone else liked my draft, but I didn't.)
Joe

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Offline westkoast

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Keeper Declarations
« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2006, 01:23:33 PM »
Quote
Quote
I am going to keep Chris Paul and Brad Miller

Sorry guys!
Rookie GMs.  Geesh...I bet even Kupchak didn't cause this much trouble...
Let me know when I make a fantasy trade to Joe coughing up Shaq for Brian Grant and Lamar Odom :laugh:

Ya I suck and yes I am a rook, you guys are much more hardcore then I thought.  This is going to be a tough fantasy year for me.
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Offline Ted

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Keeper Declarations
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2006, 01:53:49 PM »
Don't be scared off. Joe always prepares for his drafts like this. I think he does it so he can blow a cranial artery when someone takes Michael Finley in the fourth round and destroys his planned sequence.

It'll be fun to have you around anyway. I was getting really tired of that dumb beagle and his successful ways. You and I will have fun at the bottom of the barrel. I've had my one good year (last year) and I was cursed to have a work crisis during my last matchup. THAT'S RIGHT EVERYONE! I'VE BEEN QUITE LONG ENOUGH. I MUST CONFESS TO THE WORLD OR SUFFER MY SHAME IN SILENCE FOREVER. I LOST BECAUSE I DIDN'T SET MY TEAM!!!

I have committed the third unforgivable sin next to denying the Christ and murder. I have forgotten to set my team in a fantasy playoff series after winning the regular season by six games. Unforgivable.
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Offline Joe Vancil

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Keeper Declarations
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2006, 02:28:02 PM »
Actually, Ted, I've never really prepared for a draft before.  And I don't do anywhere near the preparation that Skander does - or even that Caleb does.  At most, I have a list of players who I think will slip - folks that have included folks like Shane Battier and Caron Butler - or an idea of who will get big numbers just because they're a starter this year when they didn't start last year.

In my first year, I didn't know where I was picking until 10 minutes before draft time.  In my second year, same thing.  In year 3, I knew where I was picking, wanted Brad Miller and Rashard Lewis in 3/4 (getting Michael Finley and Rashard Lewis, because Finley was just too tempting for me to pass up, him being my previous MVP and all) - and ended up with incredible picks in 8-9-10 that really vaulted my team up the ladder.  And last year, I went in knowing that I wanted Pau Gasol and Rashard Lewis in 3/4, and got them both, only to end up hurting myself by picking up Jamal Crawford (because he was the best available) despite the fact I didn't want him and Bobby Simmons (because he was the best available) despite the fact that I didn't want him.  

And, as for this vaunted "trade" reputation I have, keep in mind that only one deal have I ever offered that anyone accepted:  I offered Corey Maggette for Andre Miller.  All the deals that have people up at arms weren't instigated by me.  I was offered Stockton, Eddie Jones, Brad Miller and Anthony Mason for Antonio Davis, Courtney Alexander, Jamaal Tinsley, and Vin Baker (although, the final deal didn't involve Baker and Mason, because I was really, really high on Vin Baker  <laughing>).  I was offered Steve Nash and Michael Finley (injured at the time) for Stephon Marbury and Jalen Rose.  I was offered Corey Maggette for Jamal Mashburn.  I was offered Rip Hamilton and Shareef Abdur-Rahim for Gerald Wallace and Jeff Foster.  Now, you tell me, if someone offers you a steal, do you not accept?  You should have hoped that people had taken some of my offers instead of making their own.

Most of the time, I'm in the mix for the playoffs, so unless a trade definitely HELPS what I want to do, I refuse it.  I'm not one who takes big risks when I'm where I want to be....after all, what's the point?

Plus, when you start off with Duncan and Nash, you're already starting from a great starting point.

Truth of the matter is that I'm not that good of a trader.  I just listed above every deal I've ever made, and only one was one that I instigated, and most people would argue that the guy getting Maggette got the better of the deal.  Of course, I got the better of the deal, because Miller sewed up assists for me, plus gave me the steals I needed to win the championship against Ziggy.

Don't worry about the deals that are accepted that I offer; worry about the deals offered to me where I can't hit the "accept" button fast enough!

 
Joe

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Offline Wolverine

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Keeper Declarations
« Reply #38 on: October 19, 2006, 02:50:32 PM »
Well, I'm screwed.  My draft is down the toilet at this point.  I think I'll just stay at the Mizzou game, so don't anticipate me coming over to draft, Joe.
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Offline Skandery

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« Reply #39 on: October 19, 2006, 03:42:34 PM »
Quote
Actually, this one is pretty good: an offer of a keeper-quality player OF HIS CHOICE with *FULL* eligibility, a move of a mid-round draft pick (For example, my 5th rounder (counting the two keeper rounds as 1 and 2) for his 6th - for Ray Allen, who has one year of eligibility left.

So lemme get this straight...

He gets your 4th round pick - #40 (essentially #16)
He gets your 5th round pick - #56 (essentially #32)

You get Ray Allen
You get his 6th round pick - #69 (essentially #45)


What guarantees does he have that his player (if he even has one in mind) will be their at your 4th round pick.  Wouldn't he want to trade Ray Allen for your 3rd round pick instead to make sure he gets his player.

Me personally, I love Ray Allen, and with good reason, he was the #4 fantasy performer last year.  He'd be worth a little more than that for me...but thats just MHO.    

 
"But guys like us, we don't pay attention to the polls. We know that polls are just a collection of statistics that reflect what people are thinking in 'reality'. And reality has a well-known liberal bias."

Offline Skandery

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« Reply #40 on: October 19, 2006, 03:43:51 PM »
Oh and Westkoast, good selection with Brad Miller............you suck.  


Welcome to the league, bud........B)  
"But guys like us, we don't pay attention to the polls. We know that polls are just a collection of statistics that reflect what people are thinking in 'reality'. And reality has a well-known liberal bias."

Offline Joe Vancil

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Keeper Declarations
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2006, 05:02:58 PM »
Skander,

I'm sure he would want my 3rd round pick, which I'm not willing to trade.

And since you're going to be doing the negotiation for everyone, let me counter with this:  my offer can be made CONTINGENT on the player he wants being there at 16, if that's what he'd prefer.  (Either way, I'll be picking the same player with my pick at 9).  Assuming they're not, no deal - meaning he keeps Allen, keeps his picks, loses nothing.  Or, he can get the keeper-quality player he wants at 16, and have two picks in the 5th round (moving up 13 spots in the draft at a critical juncture).  And, of course, if he wanted more, he could certainly ask for it.

The counter to the idea that Allen is the #4 player in the league is that if Ray Allen were in this draft, would he be selected fourth overall?  I think not.  Most likely, Allen would be selected somewhere between 7 and 12.  And obviously, I have someone that I think will be there at 9 that I want more than Ray Allen, or else I'd be interested in making the deal for the #9 pick, right?

So, assuming SpursX3 wants out of 2-guard hell, there's an offer for him that will make that happen.

So - knowing that my number 9 is untouchable, what would I have to offer to get Ray Allen?

Or - better yet - what's *YOUR* offer SpursX3 to acquire Allen for YOU?  If my offer isn't good enough to consider, why don't you show us what such an offer would look like with you doing the offering?
 
Joe

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Offline Wolverine

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« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2006, 07:10:11 PM »
Honestly, does it really MATTER what Skander would offer?  Thanks to me being pissed off, he's going to take it in the rear end!
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Offline SPURSX3

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« Reply #43 on: October 20, 2006, 09:02:43 AM »
freaking home computer was not connecting to the net.  sorry about that.  keepers are ray allen and manu.  see you at the draft.
On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.

Offline SPURSX3

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« Reply #44 on: October 20, 2006, 09:04:22 AM »
freaking home computer was not connecting to the net.  sorry about that.  keepers are ray allen and manu.  see you at the draft.
On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.