Author Topic: Dealing with a cult  (Read 4835 times)

Offline WayOutWest

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Dealing with a cult
« on: March 03, 2006, 01:42:30 PM »
Anybody got any info about a group called "Jesus Christian(s)"?  The leader of the group is a guy called Dave McKay.  I cousin of mine has basically been taken prisoner by these guys.  They are doing the Cult 101 thing with him.  Cut off contact with his family, he will show up unexpectedly with two "advisors" at his side at all times.  The only reason he shows up is to try and get the pink slip for his car from his mom so he can sell his car and give the money to the Dave guy.  He's already pawned his 5K saxaphone and most of his possesions and gave the money to the Dave guy.  

My family is taking the "prayer" approach.  IMO it's gotten beyond that, this happened once before with a friends sister and we handled it quite differently.  I don't believe that approach would ok'd by my family but I'm not sure they understand the alternative.  As soon as he gets his car or gives up on it he will be gone.  I'm telling his parents to let us handle it "old school" but they just won't give up on the "god" and "prayer" thing.
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Offline Skandery

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Dealing with a cult
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2006, 04:23:25 PM »
Holy Crap, Miguel!!

This sounds like one of those "Lifetime" movies.  I've never heard of this cult and to have this happen to two of your family members in one lifetime.  I have to wonder how people are living down there in sunny LA.  

Good luck, man.  
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Offline westkoast

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« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2006, 05:32:54 PM »
There is only one way to handle it...whoop the socks off Dave McKay and tell him to get a real job like the rest of us.  I have family members who are apart of Scientology and IMO they are cult members also.  Some of the things they say and do are not too much different than some of the other cults that have popped up.  Granted there is no mass suicide for a comet that crosses by the earth but the whole 'give us money for classes' thing is just bonkers.

I hate to say this but the 'god' and 'prayer' thing is what got your relative in this situation in the first place somewhat.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2006, 05:33:22 PM by westkoast »
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Offline WayOutWest

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« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2006, 11:17:35 PM »
Quote
Holy Crap, Miguel!!

This sounds like one of those "Lifetime" movies.  I've never heard of this cult and to have this happen to two of your family members in one lifetime.  I have to wonder how people are living down there in sunny LA.  

Good luck, man.
First time it's happened to a family member, last time it was a friends sister.

We've got the soldiers to handle it old school but his parents are against it.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline Reality

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« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2006, 03:44:18 PM »
WOW. I don't know how authentic and accurate this report is.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/jesuschr...ristians17.html

*allegedly*  They donate kidneys.  For free.  For anyone.  Just because they want to.  Or rather because Dave told them to.
Thats just part 1. :eek2:

But maybe it can get your family to hurry up the process of getting him back.

Taken from this website:
http://www.rickross.com/groups/jesuschristians.html

Offline Reality

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« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2006, 03:57:30 PM »
Wow!

One by one, members of the Jesus Christians religious community stepped forward to give away a kidney.

By the end of last year, about half of the 30-member international group had donated at transplant centers across the United States, some traveling from as far away as England and Australia. After the first donated, others were quick to follow.

"There is a real euphoria that seems to follow the operation that is contagious," said Jesus Christians co-founder David McKay, 60. He donated a kidney at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn., in January 2003. "Pretty soon, hands were going up and people were asking, 'Can I donate, too? How can I find someone to donate to?' It kind of spread that way. And there hasn't been any hint of regret from any of the people who have donated."

McKay's recipient, whom he met online, paid his travel expenses.

"I was upfront that we met through the Internet and that they were paying my fare to come there," McKay said. "So the hospital was aware of that."

But when four more were set to undergo surgery at the Mayo Clinic, medical center officials got cold feet.

Dr. Steven Textor of the Mayo Clinic said the surgeries were delayed because social workers were worried it would be difficult for anyone to back out.

Officials also were turned off by the group's plan to hold a news conference. So after "much teeth gnashing," the officials agreed to accept the Jesus Christians only on a case-by-case basis, Textor said.

Newspapers in Australia and elsewhere have nicknamed the Jesus Christians a "kidney cult."

McKay bristles at the cult label, saying the group doesn't indulge in "doctrinal heresy, sexual misconduct, mind control or a leaning toward mass suicides." He said he has been portrayed unfairly as a "mind-control manipulator" who coerces members to donate kidneys so he can get publicity.

It's a nomadic, communal group. Members travel across the United States, England, Australia, Kenya and elsewhere, usually in campers and RVs. On their Web site, they are instructed to "forsake all," including families, friends and jobs.

The group says its commitment to organ donation is rooted in Scripture. Members say they're practicing what the apostle Paul preached when he urged Romans to present their bodies as "living sacrifices." On their Web site, they cite John the Baptist, who asked crowds seeking baptism to give proof of their repentance. One such proof would be for those who had two, to give to those who had none, the site says.

"In the light of these instructions, we feel that it is only reasonable that we do what we can to save or dramatically improve the quality of another person's life, by giving one of the two kidneys that we now have to someone else," the Web site says.

The Jesus Christians were harshly criticized by Australian health officials after they admitted lying to get around a ban there against donating to a stranger. Officials of one state, New South Wales, where McKay lives, recently announced they were lifting the ban.

In the United States, two Jesus Christians have given kidneys anonymously, a few have found recipients through the Internet and others were referred to recipients by former kidney patients who already had been helped by members of the group. McKay said transplant staff knew group members were finding their own recipients, and approved.

If true, the centers would be violating a long-standing guideline that good Samaritan donors be kept anonymous - and apart from their recipients - before the surgery. Meetings typically take place afterward with mutual consent. Textor said since the donor-recipient pairs had already introduced themselves to each other, the transplant team listed them as friends or acquaintances, even though they met over the Internet.

Jesus Christians member Rene Gonzalez said organ donation proved to be a way out of his spiritual rut. He donated in September 2003 in Los Angeles, where he was living. "I was praying for God to use me," Gonzalez said. "Even if I had died while donating, then it would have been dying for something positive."

According to McKay, the group's organs continue to be in great demand. It hasn't been easy to tell people in search of type O donors that the group has no more members with that blood type, McKay wrote in the Jesus Christians newsletter in July.

"However, there are still a couple of A, B and AB members who are not linked up with potential recipients."

From St. Louis Post-Dispatch
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/spec...C2?OpenDocument
« Last Edit: March 05, 2006, 04:01:53 PM by Reality »

rickortreat

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Dealing with a cult
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2006, 12:33:48 PM »
This IS mind control, pure and simple.

"You cannot petition the Lord with prayer"  Let this familly know that God works through us in this world, and if they don't want to loose their son, they better take firm action.

Since the kid is brainwashed and vulnerable, he will not leave on his own.  Right now, he probably thinks these people are more important to him than his familly.

If this was done by free will, I would say, leave it be.  But these people are a cult and they are like a virus praying on the weak-minded and defenseless.

I would go "old school" on them big time!

And if you have to break a few skulls in the process, that may make them rethink their recruiting practices.

Offline Joe Vancil

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Dealing with a cult
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2006, 12:24:16 PM »
WayOut,

Prayer to God is definitely part of the fix, so in that regard, the parents are correct.  However, prayer and reading the scripture are to serve as our guideposts to life, not to the entirety of life.

Does the Bible not teach us - in 1 John 4:1 - "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."?

We're to ask God to direct us to do what is right.  But once he lets us know, it's up to us to do it.  He'll help us along the way - a way which may not be easy - but he'll help us.

Let the parents know that.  Maybe it'll help them let you guys do what needs to be done.


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Offline Ted

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Dealing with a cult
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2006, 01:56:31 PM »
Got to agree with Rick and Joe. Your relatives sound pretty devout. Being religious, I think prayer plays an important part, but God's not going strike his two bodyguards with lightning. You might have to provide the lightning. There's another scripture in James chapter 2 that says "Faith without works is dead."

Just be careful to not get in trouble with the law. If your cousin really wants to be there, it could get messy for you. Of course, you probably know more about not getting in trouble with the law than I do.

 
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Offline spursfan101

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« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2006, 03:27:32 PM »
Handle "old school?"  You mean like a breakin dance off? :huh:  
Paul

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« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2006, 06:29:28 PM »
W.O.W.

Is LAPD cult division even worth contacting?

Offline westkoast

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« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2006, 07:01:45 PM »
Quote
Handle "old school?"  You mean like a breakin dance off? :huh:
David Koresh got served but not in the same sense you are thinking.....

W.O.W's old school tactics aka South Central LA esse tactics is the way to go.
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Offline WayOutWest

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Dealing with a cult
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2006, 08:20:31 PM »
Thanks for the input guys.

It looks like it's down to two options in trying to get my cousin out of the situation.

Most of the family is taking to their church about a deprogramming group.  You basically kidnap the person and send them to deprogramming camp.  The dad is still not on board and both he and the mom are leaving in gods hands, although the mom is waivering a bit.

My cousin's oldest brother is leaning towards handling old school.  Instead of taking his brother away from the problem we're just going to make the problem disappear.

I'm hoping for the first option cause the middle brother is already in jail, we don't want anyone else joining him.

 
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline spursfan101

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« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2006, 10:53:29 AM »
He's a grown man mijo, sadly, he has to learn his lesson. I would say go old school if it was a minor. No matter what you do, if its what he really wants, he will go right back to it. :unsure:  
Paul

Offline SPURSX3

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« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2006, 07:55:34 PM »
Quote
Thanks for the input guys.

It looks like it's down to two options in trying to get my cousin out of the situation.

Most of the family is taking to their church about a deprogramming group.  You basically kidnap the person and send them to deprogramming camp.  The dad is still not on board and both he and the mom are leaving in gods hands, although the mom is waivering a bit.

My cousin's oldest brother is leaning towards handling old school.  Instead of taking his brother away from the problem we're just going to make the problem disappear.

I'm hoping for the first option cause the middle brother is already in jail, we don't want anyone else joining him.
an intervention is worth trying WOW, however you can't expect to get a good reaction going in and whoopin on everyone.  If you could get your family together when he is there (screw his "advisors", tell them it's FAMILY business and get out or be thrown out) and plead your case to him.  You could have a intervantion specialist there.  maybe you could con him into thinking he has to go somewhere to get the car pink slip, and have people waiting there for him, if he doesnt go, no pink slip...(not that you would give it to him anyway, but just sucker him into going).

If he doesnt listen, well, 101 is right.  you can't force him to do anything he doesn't want to do.  He may end up being stuck in this cult.
On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.