Does Antonio Davis deserve eight games?

[westkoast]

While I agree somewhat with what your saying its hard to sit back and think rationale when you seem someone messing with the love of your life.

Which is exactly why my plan is enacted while I'm still on the floor.  If she is "the love of your life" -what preparations have you made for her safety?  Hecklers at a pro sports event?  Newver heard of that one before.

"To fail to prepare is to prepare to fail."

The time gap between player noticing/being alerted to heckler and arriving at scene is too late.  You, msc and Tex Tard are going to account for that time by _____?  (You are getting the point.)

Has anyone answered my or Lurkers questions as to what exactly heckler and Davis wife did and did not do.

Because of course women never lie.

I think it is very easy for you to sit back from a computer chair and make a 4 step process to how to decide on what to do.  What I am saying is that in that situation, when you see someone touching your wife, you instinct is to go to her.   The heat of the moment often clashes with logic.   Was it wrong? From an NBA rule standpoint, yes it was.  Did you get to watch the video?  There was a timeout and he was standing around when he looked up at his wife to notice <whatever happend> going on.

No one knows exactly what went on but I am not going to give this guy the benefit of the doubt after he said she went on to attack other fans.  Where are these other fans at and where was security at after the first altercation?  I dont think anyone is saying women dont lie, its not like men do not either.  22-year old  who's daddy has alot of pull in Chi-town hmmmmm.  

Lurker you are right there is no way to judge what is enough security and I can't speak for places I have not seen first hand.  At Staples though, the positioning of the security people and the ages of them do come into question.  Is a 20 year old female going to be adequate to protect another fan from a 40 year old man who is 220 lbs?  Or is Mr. Jones, the 55 year old guy in a sport jacket going to defuse two grown men brawling?  How is the staff going to try to defuse a situation or call for help if they are barely paying any attention to the fans because they are talking to a friend?  Staples I know for a fact has not stepped up security.  Id like to find out how they got around the league mandate.

[Guest_Randy]

Protect the fans?? 

you know what I started typing a great rebuttal to your stupid assesment...It's not even worth it.  I let you live with it. 


 :nonono:

you've never heard of a fan assaulting another fan?

Then shutting the __ up is the best move you've made on this thread.

Wow, this is probably the most intelligent thing I've ever heard you say!  

[Guest_Randy]

I said this AFTER the Piston/Pacer ordeal and I STILL say it now.  I DON'T think the league is showing fans that they CAN'T behave anyway they want (i.e. abuse people, etc.).  Booing is a part of the game but cursing hecklars aren't good for anyone (neither are drunk fans).

NBA players have the right to feel like they (and their family) are protected.  IF the NBA fined arena management and arena owners for lack of security (and I think MOST arenas have personell -- I just think they don't give a darn -- that would change if management/ownership started getting some fines) I think it would change things a lot.  Security would begin to crack down on drunk idiots at games (you know what's scary is that IF this guy was drunk, he would probably have driven home).  

My problem with this is that you JUST can't crack down on the players -- you have to crack down on EVERYONE to make sure it doesn't continue:  players, fans and management/ownership (or arenas).  Everyone is responsible and it's time to make sure that they realize that they have to act responsibly.

I, too, can agree with Joe's proposal -- I think it's a good one IF you don't just penalize the players but all those involved.  It seems the league wants the players to pony up but they don't care what fans do.  That's just WRONG and the league DOES have the ability to address it -- even if it's indirectly!

[msc]

Yes AFTER THE FACT police determined the man deserved to be dealt with.  But HOW did Davis from over 100 feet away KNOW that the man was drunk.  Was it tattooed on his head?

My point is still valid....how does someone who's attention is focused elsewhere KNOW what is happening 100 feet away and able to determine such things as level of inebriation?  Hell, cops pulling over drivers have to administer tests before determining if someone is drunk but Davis KNEW it?  That's just BS to spin his error in entering the stands.

Davis, by his own admission didn't know the fan was drunk until later.  

From the article originally posted in the thread:

"I witnessed my wife being threatened by a man that I learned later to be intoxicated," Davis said in a statement issued after the game

Whether or not the fan was drunk is irrelevant.  Either Davis deserves to be punished strictly on the fact that he went in to the stands, or an exception should be made in light of the fact that in his view his wife was potentially in danger.  

And I agree that you can't know exactly what's going on from 100 feet away.  Again, I think that is irrelevant as well.  If you view a commotion and your wife is in the middle of it, you're going to run to her aid, no matter what.  In fact, I'd argue that if you didn't run to her aid, there's something wrong with you.  Look, Davis ran to her aid and went over to see what was going on.  He didn't go off swing hay-makers at the fans and cursing and screaming.  He ran over there to make sure everything was okay.  

I tend to agree with Joe on this.  Give him a one game suspension for going in to the stands, just as you would a player who leaves the bench.  IMO, this would communicate the best of both worlds: 1) if you go in to the stands, no matter what, there still is a punishment and 2) In light of the fact that Davis used restraint, kept his cool and dealt with it in a mature fashion (unlike our friends Artest and Jackson) the league is factoring that in to the weight of the punishment.  
 

[Reality]

And I agree that you can't know exactly what's going on from 100 feet away.  Again, I think that is irrelevant as well.  If you view a commotion and your wife is in the middle of it, you're going to run to her aid, no matter what.  In fact, I'd argue that if you didn't run to her aid, there's something wrong with you.  Look, Davis ran to her aid and went over to see what was going on.  He didn't go off swing hay-makers at the fans and cursing and screaming.  He ran over there to make sure everything was okay.  

I tend to agree with Joe on this.  Give him a one game suspension for going in to the stands, just as you would a player who leaves the bench.  IMO, this would communicate the best of both worlds: 1) if you go in to the stands, no matter what, there still is a punishment and 2) In light of the fact that Davis used restraint, kept his cool and dealt with it in a mature fashion (unlike our friends Artest and Jackson) the league is factoring that in to the weight of the punishment.

Now, in view of your other post on players and where and whom they place their *hands*...

If a wife suspects her player husband is recieving contact from a "fan', should she be allowed to run directly up to the commotion?  To make sure everything is allright.  

[Skandery]

Basically the board has come to the general agreement that 8 games is unnecessary and unwarranted.

Had Davis done anything violent, AT ALL, to any fan; we could start to see where the harsh sentence was justified.  But the reality is that Davis went into the stands simply to make sure his wife was ok.  And I'm gonna go ahead and say that I will look at the circumstance, the player, AND past history concerning these altercations.  Antonio Davis has been an upstanding citizen his entire career and a mentor on how to be an upstanding citizen to many a player.  You tell me "Vernon Maxwell rushed into the stand" and my reaction is "And....."  You tell me "Antonio Davis rushed into the stand" and my reaction is "What did the idiot fan do".    

A one game suspension would have done just fine for all the reasons Lurker has eloquently stated.  

Stern really flubbed this one up, I think the Detroil Brawl fiasco did enough to damage the game without having paranoia like this run rampant throughout the league office.  

[msc]

Now, in view of your other post on players and where and whom they place their *hands*...

If a wife suspects her player husband is recieving contact from a "fan', should she be allowed to run directly up to the commotion?  To make sure everything is allright.

If by "fan", you mean "NBA-groupie-skeezer", then yes of course she should go check out the "commotion".  

I just read the suspension ended up being 5 games.  4 too many, IMO.  

 

[rickortreat]

Definitly not 8, 5 IMO is too much.

You don't have time to think when you see someone you love being threatened.  A split second can make a big difference.

I would like to see more fans suspended and banned for boorish behavior.  No player should ever go into the stands ever, and no fan should go onto the floor during the game either.

I love the intimacy and closeness of the NBA, but it requires that both the fans and players respect their respective roles.  A fan has no business saying anything to a players wife.  I will follow the alleged lawsuit with interest, no doubt Davis will countersue, and depending on what the witnesses say will probably enjoy the outcome greatly.

Either security has to be increased, or the players wives have to be separated from the fans.  There are too many people out there who think that a ticket gives them the right to say anything they want to a player.  After a couple of drinks they do.  Security should be watching for people like that, but as someone else noted, they're more interested in your having the right ticket.

[Jim Litke]

"From the film clips that were shown by midday Thursday, it appears security at the arena wasn't only adequate, but close to resolving the problem until Davis waded in and racheted the intensity up a few notches. If they validated anything, it was Stern's rock-solid belief that a player entering the stands under any circumstances will only make matters worse."

Jim Litke is a national sports columnist for The Associated Press. Write to him at jlitke@ap.org



 

[Jim Litke]

whole article.  Also acknowledges boorish fan behavior and need for SternFish to so something abiut it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060120/ap_on_...wN5bnN1YmNhdA--

[WayOutWest]

amazing....he is actually serious about this post.


I would feel sorry for your wife reality if she were ever pushed, punched or mugged in your sight.  "Use your Kong fu honey!!  I paid good money for that! I will just stand here as you get beat up so that Security can properly do thier job...be strong!"


 :nonono:

Was she punched, pushed or mugged?

Notice in addition to self defense, pepper spray, a bodyguard that I would send her to games with, I sugg to leave the vicinity at 1st hint of heckler interference.

Talk about taking a leaping twist in an attempted Realitybash.
Leave that for the Lakers.

FYI Reality,

No Lakers post here, only some of there fans.

[Reality]

I never had said ADavis should not have gone into the stands or stated I would not have done the same.  I have been wanting to get more information on the context of the *battle*.
Possible, and IMO believable report on what was the spark:

"Another fan yelled a vulgar reference to the female anatomy at Kendra Davis, sparking the standoff"

context and other tidbits:

"I don't think there was anything criminal here at all," said police spokesman Pat Camden.

Kendra Davis said she went to the game with her children and at least 10 members of her daughter's basketball team, which Antonio Davis coaches.
The kids were standing late in the game when a fan yelled at them to sit down. Another fan yelled a vulgar reference to the female anatomy at Kendra Davis, sparking the standoff, she said.

"You see a lot and you hear a lot from the fans," said Kendra Davis, a slender woman who wore jeans and a lime-green shirt on Thursday. "But I don't think it needs to get personal and name-calling when my kids are right there.
"There are just a few knuckleheads out there, like anywhere," she added.
Kendra Davis said it was ironic that her husband was punished for the incident because he was only trying to be a peacemaker.

"If you're at work in an office and see your husband or wife in an altercation, you get out of your desk and go help," she said. "That's what happened."
Even though she is beautiful, smart and outspoken, Kendra Davis has certainly courted controversy.

Unlike most players' wives, she has played an unusually prominent role in Davis' hoops career and once raised hackles in Toronto when she suggested that the couple's twin children should grow up "in America."

During a playoff game while Davis played for the Toronto Raptors, she got into an angry shouting match with Latrell Sprewell.
She pushed for her husband to sign with her hometown Bulls and returned to Chicago with the twins because she wasn't happy with the children going to Canadian schools.
Toronto Sun columnist Steve Simmons said Kendra Davis left rambling, obscenity-peppered voice mails when she disliked his stories."It's not totally surprising she was involved in this kind of incident," Simmons said.

BY DAVE GOLDINERNew York Daily News
Richard Schapiro contributed to this report.

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/sports/13668816.htm

[westkoast]

I never had said ADavis should not have gone into the stands or stated I would not have done the same.  I have been wanting to get more information on the context of the *battle*.
Possible, and IMO believable report on what was the spark:

"Another fan yelled a vulgar reference to the female anatomy at Kendra Davis, sparking the standoff"

context and other tidbits:

"I don't think there was anything criminal here at all," said police spokesman Pat Camden.

Kendra Davis said she went to the game with her children and at least 10 members of her daughter's basketball team, which Antonio Davis coaches.
The kids were standing late in the game when a fan yelled at them to sit down. Another fan yelled a vulgar reference to the female anatomy at Kendra Davis, sparking the standoff, she said.

"You see a lot and you hear a lot from the fans," said Kendra Davis, a slender woman who wore jeans and a lime-green shirt on Thursday. "But I don't think it needs to get personal and name-calling when my kids are right there.
"There are just a few knuckleheads out there, like anywhere," she added.
Kendra Davis said it was ironic that her husband was punished for the incident because he was only trying to be a peacemaker.

"If you're at work in an office and see your husband or wife in an altercation, you get out of your desk and go help," she said. "That's what happened."
Even though she is beautiful, smart and outspoken, Kendra Davis has certainly courted controversy.

Unlike most players' wives, she has played an unusually prominent role in Davis' hoops career and once raised hackles in Toronto when she suggested that the couple's twin children should grow up "in America."

During a playoff game while Davis played for the Toronto Raptors, she got into an angry shouting match with Latrell Sprewell.
She pushed for her husband to sign with her hometown Bulls and returned to Chicago with the twins because she wasn't happy with the children going to Canadian schools.
Toronto Sun columnist Steve Simmons said Kendra Davis left rambling, obscenity-peppered voice mails when she disliked his stories."It's not totally surprising she was involved in this kind of incident," Simmons said.

BY DAVE GOLDINERNew York Daily News
Richard Schapiro contributed to this report.

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/sports/13668816.htm

I am so confused on this whole situation now.  So she was called names but has a history of calling other people names?  (Not sure how her wanting to be back in America has any relation to this)

What happend to the other fans she attacked?

Also, do you honestly think she started acting crazy with her children and husbands girls basketball team sitting in the stands?!  I am sure words were exchanged but Mr. Politicians Son was making it sound like she went on a rampage.

[Reality]

I am so confused on this whole situation now.  So she was called names but has a history of calling other people names?  (Not sure how her wanting to be back in America has any relation to this)

What happend to the other fans she attacked?

Also, do you honestly think she started acting crazy with her children and husbands girls basketball team sitting in the stands?!  I am sure words were exchanged but Mr. Politicians Son was making it sound like she went on a rampage.

I'm only reading what you are reading.  But i find it best to gather all info become coming to any conclusions.  Who knows what exactly came down?  However the thought that she is a pristine innocent who was assaulted by mean ole Axelrod is not passing the smell test.  I posted the article just to gather more info.  Most likely it took two to tango in this one, Axel and Mr. Kendra.

(Her wanting to come back to America has nothing to do with this.  It was in within the article, which i posted in near-full to show context.)

Point is to barge up there and beat the crap out of Axelrod as if Mrs Kendra was a complete innocent would appear to have been very presumptuous.  As msc posted, Mr ADavis, once he arrived at Seatside was very restrained and conducted himself properly.  That helped tons.

<"Also, do you honestly think she started acting crazy with her children and husbands girls basketball team sitting in the stands?!"  >

I absolutely think its possible.  Watch parents at little league games.

[JoMal]

Yeah, I am with Reality on that one. She would not be out of the norm for going after someone in the presence of her kids. That happens all the time, unfortunately.

The best response to this that I heard was that Davis deserves one game for going into the stands and his wife deserves ten. In a room. With Axelrod.