Kobe handles the pretendor

[JoMal]

That was soooooooo insightful of you Jomal to allow us to read your wisdom twice.


And to expand a little....that guy named Jordan was clutch enough to pass the ball to guys like Kerr & Paxson so as to spread the glory around.  Something to reflect upon.

Sorry about the double post, but after I sent it the first time, I got one of those "unable to find link" pages, so I figured it did not go through.

[westkoast]

That was soooooooo insightful of you Jomal to allow us to read your wisdom twice.


And to expand a little....that guy named Jordan was clutch enough to pass the ball to guys like Kerr & Paxson so as to spread the glory around.  Something to reflect upon.

You do know that those players who you want to share the glory with actually have to hit the shots in order for anyone to get any glory.

I think that too is something to reflect upon.

[Skandery]

You do know that those players who you want to share the glory with actually have to hit the shots in order for anyone to get any glory.

YOU SEE!!

This is a veiled pot-shot at the rest of the Laker roster that can't hit the glory shot that Kobe spoon-fed them at the end of the game.  

YOU SEE!!  

You're at it again westkoast, demeaning those poor Laker souls.  :nod:

   

[westkoast]

You do know that those players who you want to share the glory with actually have to hit the shots in order for anyone to get any glory.

YOU SEE!!

This is a veiled pot-shot at the rest of the Laker roster that can't hit the glory shot that Kobe spoon-fed them at the end of the game.  

YOU SEE!!  

You're at it again westkoast, demeaning those poor Laker souls.  :nod:

 

Just curious Skander...should I lie?

[WayOutWest]

Joe Ill give a full response when I get to fully sit at my desk for a minute but....

Reggie Miller didn't demand the ball when the game was on the line?  As W.O.W would say...my chulo.  The guy demanded the ball when the game was on the line but here is something else you forgot too, which is the fact that his teammates WANTED to get him the ball in that situation.  Much like the Laker players WANT Kobe to have the ball in that situation.  Everyone considers him one of the top clutch players in the game and that includes his teammates.

Odom and Parker are 0 for 4 or 0 for 5 in that situation so far this year when Kobe hit them while they were open.

LeBron James has not quite gotten to the point in his career where he can be called 'clutch'. Bryant will always be the guy with the ball at the end of close games. There will NEVER be anyone else on his team in that category as long as he is playing. Not now.  Going back in time a bit, it was Bryant who missed the last second shot in the Kings/Laker playoff game that Divac batted back to Horry for that game-winning three pointer. It was Kobe who missed the shot late in an earlier game after Bibby had put the Kings up.

The point is, being willing to take the last shot in games is really no big deal. All kinds of players, if given the chance, can hit them on occasion. Earlier this year, Bonzi Wells won a King's game in Minnesota with a three point shot that hit the net as the buzzer sounded. Eddie House did the same thing for Phoenix this season.

But Kobe will NEVER see a teammate of his ever get an opportunity like Horry did as long as he is on the Lakers. My guess is that LeBron would be likely to see it, and even Tracy McGrady, to a lesser extent.

But Kobe Bryant? That will never, ever happen, period. A guarantee as much as death and taxes. So if he is going to always take those shots, missing them, as he did in the King's/Lakers playoff series, seems to me to be just as likely to happen as not.

But let's call him 'clutch' all the same, right? Afterall, he actually hits a clutch shot on occasion, which puts him right up there with the Eddie House's of the League. Lofty heights, indeed.

The fact that he takes the shot, win or lose, make or miss, is the point.  Clutch is just as much about taking the shot as making it.  LeBron does not demand the ball, it's one thing to have the ball and pass to a wide open teammate ala MJ, it's quite another to not even get the ball in your hands in "clutch time" ala LeBron.

[westkoast]

Thats funny JoMaL brings up Robert Horry's shot......

Um JoMaL, Vlade Divac passed him the ball on that play.

 :rofl:  

[JoMal]

Thats funny JoMaL brings up Robert Horry's shot......

Um JoMaL, Vlade Divac passed him the ball on that play.

 :rofl:

Did I miss saying that?

Why... no, I didn't.  

[JoMal]

The fact that he takes the shot, win or lose, make or miss, is the point.  Clutch is just as much about taking the shot as making it.  LeBron does not demand the ball, it's one thing to have the ball and pass to a wide open teammate ala MJ, it's quite another to not even get the ball in your hands in "clutch time" ala LeBron.

No, WOW, as I pointed out, plenty of guys in the NBA have taken those last second shots and made them; and as my examples show, they come from a variety of players. So far, LeBron James is not one of them, but that isn't relevant yet, as he is still a babe in the NBA and not all aspects of the pro game have yet manifested themselves in his game.

Yet you seem to think that, because he is LeBron James, he should be demanding the ball late in games to show his cajones. I think he just should play smart. Teams are likely to focus on him more, just like Bryant. The difference, and this is where I totally disagree with you, is that LeBron has absolutely no interest in being the 'clutch' shooter late in the game if the game dictates another player try the shot because he is more open. That concept is as foreign to Kobe Bryant as peace in our time.

Bryant simply insists...to all the world, I might add... to be that late game clutch shooter. and as Joe pointed out, eventually his teammates will get wise to that fact and God help the Lakers if five guys swarm over Kobe with three seconds left and he actually has to pass it away. That would look ugly.

[Guest_Randy]

Actually, all the GM's in basketball were surveyed last year as to whom they would like to take the last shot in clutch time -- the response was resounding for Kobe.  So, it's not only Kobe that insists in taking the last shot in clutch time, huh?

Although as a King's fan, I'm sure it must be tough not having a guy you can go to at clutch time, huh?  Oh, wait, you have Bonzi now don't you?

[westkoast]

Thats funny JoMaL brings up Robert Horry's shot......

Um JoMaL, Vlade Divac passed him the ball on that play.

 :rofl:

Did I miss saying that?

Why... no, I didn't.

But Kobe will NEVER see a teammate of his ever get an opportunity like Horry did as long as he is on the Lakers. My guess is that LeBron would be likely to see it, and even Tracy McGrady, to a lesser extent.

 :unsure:

Horry's opportunity came off a missed shot by Shaq that Vlade tipped out to him.   So I agree, Kobe probably will never see a teammate of his ever get an opportunity like Horry did because I dont think anyone is dumb enough to repeat that play.  Not sure what you are trying to get at here because it doesnt make much sense.

Not to bother you with this or anything but can you name the player who passed Robert Horry the ball when he came one rattle away from putting the Spurs back on their heels the year they won the championship?

[JoMal]

But Kobe will NEVER see a teammate of his ever get an opportunity like Horry did as long as he is on the Lakers. My guess is that LeBron would be likely to see it, and even Tracy McGrady, to a lesser extent.

 :unsure:

Horry's opportunity came off a missed shot by Shaq that Vlade tipped out to him.   So I agree, Kobe probably will never see a teammate of his ever get an opportunity like Horry did because I dont think anyone is dumb enough to repeat that play.  Not sure what you are trying to get at here because it doesnt make much sense.

Not to bother you with this or anything but can you name the player who passed Robert Horry the ball when he came one rattle away from putting the Spurs back on their heels the year they won the championship?

 

And if Horry comes back to the Lakers, I am sure Kobe would consider passing him the ball once again in those situations, but since that isn't likely, let's just assume from his current actions that Kobe has no intensions of testing any of his teammates for 'clutchness' any time soon.

Oh, one other thing. While you are correct in stating that Shaq missed the "second" shot in that sequence, the play was designed for Kobe to shoot the ball, which he did. Shaq just got the rebound off of Kobe's, um, miss. But since Horry made the shot, I suppose it matters little that Kobe once again was "the Man", until he had to settle for, what would you call that? Setting up that last second play?

Sort of like how Kobe claims he is creating opportunities now for his teammates to rebound his twenty or so misses per game. Just part of his 'plan' for involving his teammates.

What a guy.

[JoMal]

Actually, all the GM's in basketball were surveyed last year as to whom they would like to take the last shot in clutch time -- the response was resounding for Kobe.  So, it's not only Kobe that insists in taking the last shot in clutch time, huh?

Although as a King's fan, I'm sure it must be tough not having a guy you can go to at clutch time, huh?  Oh, wait, you have Bonzi now don't you?

They must have misunderstood the question, then.

Maybe they were considering that they would certainly want their team, with Kobe on it, to have that last second opportunity, because just about anyone else playing with Kobe would bound to be open for any kind of shot. Just convincing Kobe to pass it to the open guy would be hard.

Oh, unless he had Robert Horry on his team as well.

Randy, your weak comment about the Kings' lack of clutch shooters just goes to show how ignorant you can be. The Kings have not been anywhere close to their opponents in their losses this year to worry too much about who should take any rare, last second shot.

 

[westkoast]

And if Horry comes back to the Lakers, I am sure Kobe would consider passing him the ball once again in those situations, but since that isn't likely, let's just assume from his current actions that Kobe has no intensions of testing any of his teammates for 'clutchness' any time soon.

Thats funny JoMaL because he has tried a few times this year but dont let me throw you off course with facts......if you want to play the what if and assumption game then I guess Ill put my tokens in to play a few rounds.

What if Derek Fisher got traded back to the Lakers for Deveon George?!  I would assume that Kobe would pass him the ball because he is a clutch shooter who has hit big shots in the past.

Oh, one other thing. While you are correct in stating that Shaq missed the "second" shot in that sequence, the play was designed for Kobe to shoot the ball, which he did. Shaq just got the rebound off of Kobe's, um, miss. But since Horry made the shot, I suppose it matters little that Kobe once again was "the Man", until he had to settle for, what would you call that? Setting up that last second play?

Actually Vlade is the man :lol:  Once a Laker always a Laker right?!

Sort of like how Kobe claims he is creating opportunities now for his teammates to rebound his twenty or so misses per game. Just part of his 'plan' for involving his teammates.

Now you are mixing Kobe up with Reality?  I think its time for a nap JoMaL!!

[Joe Vancil]

This article comparing LeBron and Kobe pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=jones/060117

[westkoast]

This article comparing LeBron and Kobe pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=jones/060117

Intresting read......but why cant Lebron have both the ability to make plays for others and have a killer instinct?  Magic did.  Jordan did.  Two players who I think Lebron's game is a blend of.  Sounds like the reporter is making an excuse for Lebron.  IMO Lebron will develop into the guy who is use to being mr. game-on-the-line.  That is something you develop with expierence.  Only Magic came into the league with the ability to be Mr. Clutch right off the bat.

While I agree you dish the ball if your man has an open shot the best player on your team should be taking a majority of the last second shots.  That is why Jordan took about 95% of the clutch shots while he was wearing red.