Kobe handles the pretendor

[guest-koast]

What a finish last night between the Lakers and Cavs.  Kobe showed why he's another level and LeBron has a bit to learn.

The last 6 shots of the game were amazing.  Kobe made 3 for the Lakers and the Cavs had three different players make shots for them at critical times.  I don't think LeBron made any of the last three for the Cavs.  When it came to cruch time Kobe was the man and LeBron was the invisible man.  Plus

Kobe D'd up LeBron and created a turnover late in the game.  LeBron did bully Kobe on the 2nd to last possesion and got the FT line, at times I forget how big LeBron is, but he missed the 2nd FT.  Lakers blew the rebound and LeBron had another shot to win the game but missed the shot with Kobe guarding him.

Great game, Kobe was the key to the Lakers win and Snow, not LeBron, was the key to the Cavs almost pulling it out.  That one game is a perfect example of why Kobe is head and shoulders above LeBron.

I wonder if since Juan Dixon and Steve Blake both went off for near career highs the night before against the Lakers, stopped Kobe's 45 point streak, and the Blazers won, if that means that they have shown that they are at another level and that Kobe has a bit to learn from them?

Just asking.

Kobe def has alot to learn from two guys who dropped 20-27 points for the first times in their career.

Should Bruce Bowen take lessons from such a defensive stopper as Ruben Paterson, Juan Dixon, and Steve Blake?  They stopped Kobe's streak by playing such great defense he only scored 41.  Just asking.

[msc]

I wonder if since Juan Dixon and Steve Blake both went off for near career highs the night before against the Lakers, stopped Kobe's 45 point streak, and the Blazers won, if that means that they have shown that they are at another level and that Kobe has a bit to learn from them?

Just asking.

That's a fair question.  

Of course on the day that I post the Lakers are notorious for making some average NBA'ers look like all-stars ... they go ahead and make two average players look like Hall of Famer's.  The matador defense, and I use the term defense loosely, the Lakers played in that game was an embarrassment to basketball at all levels.  That game was excruciating for me to watch.

Good win for the Blazers though and you have to give them credit for being aggressive and taking it to the Lakers.  I don't know what the Laker's problem is playing at the Rose Garden, but I think they've only won like 2 of their last 10 appearances there.  

[Guest_Randy]

James looks VERY mature for a 21 year old on the court -- his court vision is GREAT!  

I was kind of surprised that the Lakers managed to pull this game out when I saw Kobe hurt his hand (notice that it didn't keep him from jacking up shots).  Odom was aggressive after that though -- I was glad to see that and Mihm actually scored a few times over Ilgauskas.  The Lakers didn't have much of an answer for Ilgauskas -- I'm glad they just didn't keep dumping the ball into him -- the Lakers couldn't have won that way, IMO.  

James needs to work on his defense -- Kobe worked hard to keep James in check and did a fair job but James is a very talented offensive player -- and fairly unselfish.

As amazing as it was, Kobe managed to find a way to sink 3 straight shots after missing just about everything after hurting his hand.  And they weren't easy shots either.  

I would STILL like to see the Lakers add some pieces that would compliment Kobe's game -- the only player that I really seeing doing that night in and night out at this point is Smush.

[ziggy]

What a finish last night between the Lakers and Cavs.  Kobe showed why he's another level and LeBron has a bit to learn.

The last 6 shots of the game were amazing.  Kobe made 3 for the Lakers and the Cavs had three different players make shots for them at critical times.  I don't think LeBron made any of the last three for the Cavs.  When it came to cruch time Kobe was the man and LeBron was the invisible man.  Plus

Kobe D'd up LeBron and created a turnover late in the game.  LeBron did bully Kobe on the 2nd to last possesion and got the FT line, at times I forget how big LeBron is, but he missed the 2nd FT.  Lakers blew the rebound and LeBron had another shot to win the game but missed the shot with Kobe guarding him.

Great game, Kobe was the key to the Lakers win and Snow, not LeBron, was the key to the Cavs almost pulling it out.  That one game is a perfect example of why Kobe is head and shoulders above LeBron.

I wonder if since Juan Dixon and Steve Blake both went off for near career highs the night before against the Lakers, stopped Kobe's 45 point streak, and the Blazers won, if that means that they have shown that they are at another level and that Kobe has a bit to learn from them?

Just asking.

Kobe def has alot to learn from two guys who dropped 20-27 points for the first times in their career.

Should Bruce Bowen take lessons from such a defensive stopper as Ruben Paterson, Juan Dixon, and Steve Blake?  They stopped Kobe's streak by playing such great defense he only scored 41.  Just asking.

You know you have a point  :cheers: .  It's amazing the things you can extrapolate, and all the conclusions you can draw from a single game isn't it.  Speaking of Ruben, he taught Pau Gasol a bunch when he went for 22, and Pau went for 18, and KG when he went for 23 in 26 minutes, and Garnett got only 24 in 39.

[WayOutWest]

LOL at the attempted put downs.  Anybody who watched the game could see LeBron doesn't demand the ball in crunch time.  There were three strait possesions where LeBron didn't even attempt a shot, the same three possessions where Kobe put his signature on the game.  It took a timeout and the coach to get him the ball.  That's the difference between players like LeBron and Kobe, Kobe wants the ball and he wants the defensive assignment when the game is on the line.  Guys like LeBron remind of the early James Worthy, if the game went good he did well but when it got tough or he was having a rough time he deferred to other players.  LeBron has a ways to go before he can be compared to Kobe.

I think someday LeBron could be a better offensive threat because of his combo of size, strength and speed, but unless his mental approach to the game changes he won't be as good overall as Kobe.  I think it will click someday for this kid, he's already shown a maturity at his age beyond KG, Kobe, AI and T-Mac.  And I've been impressed by his court vision from day one, haven't seen anything like that since Magic and J. Kid.

[Joe Vancil]

That's the difference between players like LeBron and Kobe, Kobe wants the ball and he wants the defensive assignment when the game is on the line.

Given the number of shots a game Kobe typically takes, I'd say he wants the ball a lot more often than when the game is on the line.

Now let me see...LeBron James outscored Kobe, outshot Kobe from the field, out shot Kobe from 3-point range, went to the free-throw line more than Kobe, got the same number of rebounds as Kobe, committed the same number of turnovers as Kobe, got more assists that Kobe, fouled less than Kobe...yet Kobe's the better player?

The only way this loss can be laid at the feet of LeBron James is in him going a pathetic 4-9 from the free-throw line.

LeBron James led his *TEAM* in that game.  Kobe Bryant led *HIS* team.  Over the course of time, the former will do better than the latter, because LeBron builds his teammates up, whereas Kobe tears his down.

Robert Horry said it best when he referred to Shaq and Kobe as "the two biggest ball-hogs" he'd ever played with.

 

[WayOutWest]

That's the difference between players like LeBron and Kobe, Kobe wants the ball and he wants the defensive assignment when the game is on the line.

Given the number of shots a game Kobe typically takes, I'd say he wants the ball a lot more often than when the game is on the line.

Now let me see...LeBron James outscored Kobe, outshot Kobe from the field, out shot Kobe from 3-point range, went to the free-throw line more than Kobe, got the same number of rebounds as Kobe, committed the same number of turnovers as Kobe, got more assists that Kobe, fouled less than Kobe...yet Kobe's the better player?

The only way this loss can be laid at the feet of LeBron James is in him going a pathetic 4-9 from the free-throw line.

LeBron James led his *TEAM* in that game.  Kobe Bryant led *HIS* team.  Over the course of time, the former will do better than the latter, because LeBron builds his teammates up, whereas Kobe tears his down.

Robert Horry said it best when he referred to Shaq and Kobe as "the two biggest ball-hogs" he'd ever played with.

Joe,

Look at the shots taken at the end of the game.  It's not even about who made them and who missed them, it was about who took them.  LeBron didn't even attempt a shot when the game was on the line.  It's not like the Lakers doubled teamed him or anything he simply did not assert himself when it MATTERED.  When have you seen AI, Kobe, T-Mac or Reggie Miller LET that happen?

[guest-koast]

That's the difference between players like LeBron and Kobe, Kobe wants the ball and he wants the defensive assignment when the game is on the line.

Given the number of shots a game Kobe typically takes, I'd say he wants the ball a lot more often than when the game is on the line.

Now let me see...LeBron James outscored Kobe, outshot Kobe from the field, out shot Kobe from 3-point range, went to the free-throw line more than Kobe, got the same number of rebounds as Kobe, committed the same number of turnovers as Kobe, got more assists that Kobe, fouled less than Kobe...yet Kobe's the better player?

The only way this loss can be laid at the feet of LeBron James is in him going a pathetic 4-9 from the free-throw line.

LeBron James led his *TEAM* in that game.  Kobe Bryant led *HIS* team.  Over the course of time, the former will do better than the latter, because LeBron builds his teammates up, whereas Kobe tears his down.

Robert Horry said it best when he referred to Shaq and Kobe as "the two biggest ball-hogs" he'd ever played with.

Joe,

You conviently left one thing out....


Game on the line Kobe hits 3 shots in a row which give the Lakers the win.

Lebron missed two shots and a freethrow.

[Laker Fan]

I don't know, Joe seems to be missing little points like the ine WOW and 'Koast just made a lot lately, to steal and paraphrase a quote from Barber Shop: "It sounds like he's got a little haterism in his game"  B)

[Joe Vancil]

And I think you miss the one I made.

I question whether Bryant is "demanding the ball at clutch time" or "demanding the ball a time that just happens to coincide with clutch time."  

I don't think he is much less demanding of the ball at any other point of the game.

And this "great players demand the ball in the last minute"?  HOGWASH.  Robert Horry made his reputation as a clutch player by being ready to step up when called upon - not by demanding the ball.  Ditto with Steve Kerr.  Ditto with Reggie Miller.  Kobe's "clutch" demanding of the ball is just another example of a young player imitating all the worst mannerisms of Michael Jordan that helped to destroy the game of basketball.

I think part of the reason that the Lakers no longer have anyone who can step up during the game other than Bryant is partly because those who would be ready to step up when called upon got tired of waiting for their opportunity.

Every player knows that in the opening minute of a game, your cuts are quick and precise, you're alert for the ball, and you're ready.  But when you've flashed open a few times and still not seen the ball on those occasions, those cuts get slower and less precise, and you're not really paying attention or looking for the ball anymore.  Who can blame them?

Selfish play - whether it be Bryant's shot-hogging, Shaq's "got to fee the big dog', Pippen's unwillingness to check into the game  because he didn't get the last shot, or Steve Francis's unwillingness to report into the game - is selfish play, and is contrary to all the best basketball played.  

I can appreciate Bryant's skills - but I despise his game.
 

[guest-koast]

Joe Ill give a full response when I get to fully sit at my desk for a minute but....

Reggie Miller didn't demand the ball when the game was on the line?  As W.O.W would say...my chulo.  The guy demanded the ball when the game was on the line but here is something else you forgot too, which is the fact that his teammates WANTED to get him the ball in that situation.  Much like the Laker players WANT Kobe to have the ball in that situation.  Everyone considers him one of the top clutch players in the game and that includes his teammates.

Odom and Parker are 0 for 4 or 0 for 5 in that situation so far this year when Kobe hit them while they were open.

 

[JoMal]

And I think you miss the one I made.

 

:rofl:

Joe, the one thing that is guaranteed that I have noticed ever since the msnbc board that you can put down as a guarantee as much as death and taxes will be that Laker fans will never 'get' the point about outside assessments being made about anything Laker.

[JoMal]

Joe Ill give a full response when I get to fully sit at my desk for a minute but....

Reggie Miller didn't demand the ball when the game was on the line?  As W.O.W would say...my chulo.  The guy demanded the ball when the game was on the line but here is something else you forgot too, which is the fact that his teammates WANTED to get him the ball in that situation.  Much like the Laker players WANT Kobe to have the ball in that situation.  Everyone considers him one of the top clutch players in the game and that includes his teammates.

Odom and Parker are 0 for 4 or 0 for 5 in that situation so far this year when Kobe hit them while they were open.

LeBron James has not quite gotten to the point in his career where he can be called 'clutch'. Bryant will always be the guy with the ball at the end of close games. There will NEVER be anyone else on his team in that category as long as he is playing. Not now.  Going back in time a bit, it was Bryant who missed the last second shot in the Kings/Laker playoff game that Divac batted back to Horry for that game-winning three pointer. It was Kobe who missed the shot late in an earlier game after Bibby had put the Kings up.

The point is, being willing to take the last shot in games is really no big deal. All kinds of players, if given the chance, can hit them on occasion. Earlier this year, Bonzi Wells won a King's game in Minnesota with a three point shot that hit the net as the buzzer sounded. Eddie House did the same thing for Phoenix this season.

But Kobe will NEVER see a teammate of his ever get an opportunity like Horry did as long as he is on the Lakers. My guess is that LeBron would be likely to see it, and even Tracy McGrady, to a lesser extent.

But Kobe Bryant? That will never, ever happen, period. A guarantee as much as death and taxes. So if he is going to always take those shots, missing them, as he did in the King's/Lakers playoff series, seems to me to be just as likely to happen as not.

But let's call him 'clutch' all the same, right? Afterall, he actually hits a clutch shot on occasion, which puts him right up there with the Eddie House's of the League. Lofty heights, indeed.    

[JoMal]

...and that goes for YOU twice!!

[Lurker]

That was soooooooo insightful of you Jomal to allow us to read your wisdom twice.


And to expand a little....that guy named Jordan was clutch enough to pass the ball to guys like Kerr & Paxson so as to spread the glory around.  Something to reflect upon.