Kobe-wan!

[Guest_Randy]

:rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

This was HILARIOUS Reality -- like Manu's going to do ANYTHING to top Kobe's performance!!!

[Reality]

SBC dome November 29, 2005

Kobe
9-33 fgs 27%
0-6 treys
7-8 free throws
4 boards
0 assists  :rolleyes:

Manu
9-14 fgs 65%
2-3 treys
2-4 fts
8 boards
2 assists
2 swats, both of Kobme  

[westkoast]

SBC dome November 29, 2005

Kobe
9-33 fgs 27%
0-6 treys
7-8 free throws
4 boards
0 assists  :rolleyes:

Manu
9-14 fgs 65%
2-3 treys
2-4 fts
8 boards
2 assists
2 swats, both of Kobme

http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/

[WayOutWest]

While I can see an arguement for top 5,

Way to go.  
Randy just burst into tears and cancelled his doing your nails at 3pm for the big Laker bash tonight.

I think Kobe should enjoy his day in the sun until Manu gets back.

Just cause I can see the argument doesn't mean I wouldn't tear it apart.  Kobe is clearly the best back court player in the league today.  Better than T-Mac, Iverson, LeBron, Nash and Wade.  While all of them can be as good AT TIMES as Kobe, none play both ends of the court.  None other than T-Mac and Iverson can be consistantly as good ofensively, Wade and LeBron are on their way.  If the NBA was like the NFL where you had a seperate offensive and defensive team then I would say Kobe is ONE of the best, but since they have to play BOTH defense and offense, Kobe is THE best.  The only big men I would take ahead of Kobe are Shaq, TD and KG.  Amare MAY get there some day, but Dirk and JO are just not that good.  Dirk doesn't play D and JO is a soft punk who acts likes he's the only player in the league who can dunk a basketball.

I wouldn't call someone an idiot for making the top 5 argument, but I would for trying to make an arguement that Kobe is not a top 10.

[Reality]

I wouldn't call someone an idiot for making the top 5 argument, but I would for trying to make an arguement that Kobe is not a top 10.

On the Extra Sports 570 Loose Cannons thread, i never did vote.  I have no problem with Kobadiah being in the top 10.  I don't really have a problem with him being out of it either.  Good Kobe and bad Kobme.  Post Shaq, he is very inconsistent.  Sub .500 team record that blaming it 100% on his teamates is just old and lame.  Randolph tried his usual stat twisting to leave out that he has gone over 30 shot attempts like 8 times this year.  Last night was obviously okay. :rolleyes:

As to top 5 I'll take AStoud, Lebron and DWade 8 days a week over Kobme.  That Lebron is "getting there" is a farce.  He is "there" and he is only 20-21 or whatever he is.  Dwade plays consistently good on both ends.

At any rate, this is Kobes day.
Wow, get in the Laker House for your nail appointment and Kobe services this evening.
Randy, I've got my arms around you. :cry:  :wub:  

[Guest_Randy]

I wouldn't call someone an idiot for making the top 5 argument, but I would for trying to make an arguement that Kobe is not a top 10.

On the Extra Sports 570 Loose Cannons thread, i never did vote.  I have no problem with Kobadiah being in the top 10.  I don't really have a problem with him being out of it either.  Good Kobe and bad Kobme.  Post Shaq, he is very inconsistent.  Sub .500 team record that blaming it 100% on his teamates is just old and lame.  Randolph tried his usual stat twisting to leave out that he has gone over 30 shot attempts like 8 times this year.  Last night was obviously okay. :rolleyes:

As to top 5 I'll take AStoud, Lebron and DWade 8 days a week over Kobme.  That Lebron is "getting there" is a farce.  He is "there" and he is only 20-21 or whatever he is.  Dwade plays consistently good on both ends.

At any rate, this is Kobes day.
Wow, get in the Laker House for your nail appointment and Kobe services this evening.
Randy, I've got my arms around you. :cry:  :wub:

Actually, Kobe IS leading the league in FGA -- he has 6 more attempts than AI and has made three more shots than AI (they both have a FG% of 44%).

I am rather interested in who you think needs to take those extra shots in LA -- Kwame Brown?  Chris Mihm?

As for my "stat twisting" -- there was no stat twisting -- YOU mentioned Kobe's shots during the Lakers recent winning streak -- I simply reported them -- the ones ABOVE 30 as well as the rest.  I know that you fail to read and see anything that doesn't suit you well -- that's okay, I don't expect you to change at this point.  However, you might try READING for a change -- it's all there.  

I am quite interested in seeing how you expect Kobe to score 62 and not shoot the ball more than 30 times -- please show me the math on that one!


Oh, you fail to mention how well the Lakers are playing right now -- must have slipped your mind, huh?

[Laker Fan]

4-2 against .500 or better teams over their last 10, nothing to get too excited about but something to build on, and their defense is stepping up huge. I'll take the 14-11 record, I didn't expect this much so I'm pleased.

BTW, Nowitski doesn't even belong in the top 10, that elite group is reserved for players who play BOTH ends of the court, and I'd stack Kobe against just about anyone except Duncan or MAYBE Garnett at this point in the season, he is playing that well.

One more thing, I'm not as generous as WOW is, I would say anyone who says Kobe isn't a top 5 player is, shall we say, someone lacking any basketball knowledge, missing at least one lobe of their brain, clearly in the last stages og dimentia, or maybe just an idiot.

[jn]

Dan, just curious, what set you off about Dirk?  I'm curious whether it was just last nights game or  because in the past week the annual spotscaster/writer chorus of "Why isn't this guy being mentioned for MVP?" questions.

It happens every year and the answer is always the same. He. Cannot. Defend.  It just drives me batty.  

[Laker Fan]

Actually it was someone here having the unmitigated audacity to put him in the same league as a Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, or Elton Brand.

Dirk is a very one-dimentional player who needs to be set up to be effective or he falls in love with his outside shot sort of like Peja does, except Dirk is somewhat more creative, but neither of them even ATTEMPT to play defense and Dirk even less so. IMO, he is very, very overrated because a complete players plays both ends of the court, he doesn't even try to defend, it's a joke to think he belongs in the upper echelon, all that offensive firepower the Mavericks (and for that matter, the Kings) have served up over the years have netted them NOTHING.

Offense is fun to watch but the problem is today's fans and the sportmedia that caters to them all look for the human highlight reel (which is the ONLY reason Jason Williams is still in the NBA) and good sound well rounded teams take a back seat, more's the pity. We may joke about how boring the Spurs can be, but their defense had as much to do with their beating another great defensive team in Detroit as anything, and personally, I think that kind of effiiciency is more scary than anything else to opponents.

[westkoast]

To add to what Dan is saying...

Dirk doesn't rebound very well at all either.   His stats may say hes decent but how many of those rebounds are ones that bounce right to him?? He has no authority when he goes up to snatch rebounds and I've never once seen him gobble up rebounds when the game is on the line.  Guys like KG, Duncan, and Shaq know when they need to snatch every rebound to keep the other team one and out.....and they go up with authority.   When those guys want the rebound 99 times out of 100 they get the rebound.   KG, Duncan,  and Shaq ive seen do this many times when the game is on the line.  On top of aggressive rebounding they are altering shots and spiking basketballs to the hardwood.  Have you ever once seen Dirk control the paint like those guys?  I havent.

Lets not even mention how his post up game only consists of falling backwards and shooting a fadeaway.

[JoMal]

I thought this thread was all about Kobe-luv and not about Dirk-dung.  

[Reality]

One more thing, I'm not as generous as WOW is, I would say anyone who says Kobe isn't a top 5 player is, shall we say, someone lacking any basketball knowledge, missing at least one lobe of their brain, clearly in the last stages og dimentia, or maybe just an idiot.

Why stop there?  This board is for telling how we really feel.  No holds barred.  Why not make Kobe the best player in the NBA, period?

At least 5 reasons of Proof:

Kobe has never lost a playoff game without Shaq.
Kevin Garnett never worn a Lakers uniform.
TD has never worn a Lakers uniform.
A.I. has never worn a Lakers uniform.
Lebron has never worn a Lakers uniform.

Dan it was outstanding seeing you call the Kobe end of game bogus gift vs Utah.  Monumental breakthru.  I don't want to overdo progress.  But, could you see a Kobe call realistically if it was a game outside of Utah also?

[Reality]

I am rather interested in who you think needs to take those extra shots in LA -- Kwame Brown?  Chris Mihm?

Luc Longley, Bill Wennington, Randy Brown, Jud Buechler, Dickey Simpkins, Jason Caffey, and Jack Haley.

and Randy i think the Lakers are doing much better these last 10 games.  If Phildo can get Kobe to share his toys, I can see Kobe going not only +.500 for the 1st time in his career but maybe even .600 and a R1 appearance.

[Skandery]

Laker Fans United:

Its good to be proud of the performance from Kobe Bryant, 62 points in 3 quarters is absolutely incredible and is one of the great individual performances I've ever witnessed.  But the various negative comments and utter debasement of Dirk Nowitzki among others is inexcusable even if it does come from drunken fervor and pride of your hometown guy.  So lets now take a walk down statistics alley.

Dirk Nowitzki (rankings among PFs)
----------------------------------------

25.8 PPG -- 1st  
9.3  RPG -- 12th
2.2  APG -- 12th
1.1  BPG -- 11th -- big man category

1.5 threes at .396
6.0 Fts      at .872

FG: .458
TO: 1.8
Min: 38.1 MPG

Kobe Bryant (rankings among SGs)
-----------------------------------------

32.5 PPG -- 1st
5.4  RPG -- 11th
4.3  APG -- 7th
1.3  SPG -- 17th -- guard category

1.2 threes at .315
7.9 Fts      at .822

FG: .448
TO: 2.9
Min: 39.9 MPG

Statistically, DN and KB are comparable in terms of points and rebounds.  Kobe is a better passer and Dirk is better at getting blocks than Kobe is at getting steals.  Dirk makes more threes at a ridiculously higher percentage, Kobe gets to the line more often but still is giving up 5 percentage points to Dirk.  Dirk shoots at a higher percentage, commits a turnover less per game, and has nearly 2 minutes less per game to accumulate stats than Kobe.  Now one might ask how these INDIVIDUAL stats reflect on the TEAM stats, I'm glad you asked:

Dallas Mavericks
--------------------
OPP PPG      - 94.7
OPP FG%     - .446
OPP Off Reb - 10.8
FG%            - .462
3P%            - .369
FT%            - .749
Rebs/Def     - 43.1/30.3
Assists        - 17.1
Steals          - 7.4
Blocks         - 6.1
Points          - 98.6
Win PCT      - .720   <-- the only one that matters

Los Angeles Lakers
----------------------
OPP PPG       - 94.0
OPP FG%      - .437
OPP Off Reb  - 11.5
FG%             - .441
3P%             - .335
FT%             - .734
Rebs/Def      - 42.3/29.6
Assists         - 20.2
Steals          - 7.2
Blocks          - 4.7
Points           - 96.4
Win Pct         - .560

Defensively, the Lakers hold opponents to less points per game and 1 percentage point less in the FG department, but they let other teams get more offensive rebounds.  Offensively, the Mavs shoot better from the field, the line, and the 3 point line.  They get more rebounds and more def. rebounds, more steals, more blocks, score more points, get less assists, and have thus far won a lot more games in what everyone would agree is a MUCH tougher division.

I personally hold the team leader/best player/team captain accountable for how the team performs as a unit.  I submit that the statistics show that the superiority of Dirk in terms of offensive efficiency catapult the Mavericks ahead of the Lakers in nearly every offensive statistical category with the lone exception being team assists per game.  And why shouldn't the Lakers be a better passing team as Kobe, it has been shown, is a much better passer than Dirk.  While Dirk and Kobe are comparable in rebounding, the Mavs hold opponents to less offensive rebounds while getting more rebounds and def. rebound per game than the Lakers.  

To sum up, I believe that Kobe is marginally better than Dirk Nowitzki defensively which facilitates the Laker superiority in opponents FG% and ppg.  I think Dirk Nowitzki is far better than Kobe offensively (save passing) in terms of efficiency and production within the flow of the offensive scheme.  Overall I say that Dirk Nowitzki is more valuable than Kobe Bryant as the centerpiece of a team.  Don't get me wrong, Kobe might be the more individually talented basketball player, but I'm going to build around Dirk!  

There are some that say that Kobe Bryant isn't a Top 10 basketball player in the league and I disagree, I can't name 10 players better than him.  For those that say Kobe Bryant isn't a Top 5 basketball player, well I can see where they're coming from.  Truth is I don't know that he is in my top 5, but he's damn close.  But for the people who say that Dirk Nowitzki isn't a Top 10 basketball player, whether he rebounds with "maniacal glee" or not, shows an absolute utter lack of objectivity.                

 

[WayOutWest]

Laker Fans United:

Its good to be proud of the performance from Kobe Bryant, 62 points in 3 quarters is absolutely incredible and is one of the great individual performances I've ever witnessed.  But the various negative comments and utter debasement of Dirk Nowitzki among others is inexcusable even if it does come from drunken fervor and pride of your hometown guy.  So lets now take a walk down statistics alley.

Dirk Nowitzki (rankings among PFs)
----------------------------------------

25.8 PPG -- 1st  
9.3  RPG -- 12th
2.2  APG -- 12th
1.1  BPG -- 11th -- big man category

1.5 threes at .396
6.0 Fts      at .872

FG: .458
TO: 1.8
Min: 38.1 MPG

Kobe Bryant (rankings among SGs)
-----------------------------------------

32.5 PPG -- 1st
5.4  RPG -- 11th
4.3  APG -- 7th
1.3  SPG -- 17th -- guard category

1.2 threes at .315
7.9 Fts      at .822

FG: .448
TO: 2.9
Min: 39.9 MPG

Statistically, DN and KB are comparable in terms of points and rebounds.  Kobe is a better passer and Dirk is better at getting blocks than Kobe is at getting steals.  Dirk makes more threes at a ridiculously higher percentage, Kobe gets to the line more often but still is giving up 5 percentage points to Dirk.  Dirk shoots at a higher percentage, commits a turnover less per game, and has nearly 2 minutes less per game to accumulate stats than Kobe.  Now one might ask how these INDIVIDUAL stats reflect on the TEAM stats, I'm glad you asked:

Dallas Mavericks
--------------------
OPP PPG      - 94.7
OPP FG%     - .446
OPP Off Reb - 10.8
FG%            - .462
3P%            - .369
FT%            - .749
Rebs/Def     - 43.1/30.3
Assists        - 17.1
Steals          - 7.4
Blocks         - 6.1
Points          - 98.6
Win PCT      - .720   <-- the only one that matters

Los Angeles Lakers
----------------------
OPP PPG       - 94.0
OPP FG%      - .437
OPP Off Reb  - 11.5
FG%             - .441
3P%             - .335
FT%             - .734
Rebs/Def      - 42.3/29.6
Assists         - 20.2
Steals          - 7.2
Blocks          - 4.7
Points           - 96.4
Win Pct         - .560

Defensively, the Lakers hold opponents to less points per game and 1 percentage point less in the FG department, but they let other teams get more offensive rebounds.  Offensively, the Mavs shoot better from the field, the line, and the 3 point line.  They get more rebounds and more def. rebounds, more steals, more blocks, score more points, get less assists, and have thus far won a lot more games in what everyone would agree is a MUCH tougher division.

I personally hold the team leader/best player/team captain accountable for how the team performs as a unit.  I submit that the statistics show that the superiority of Dirk in terms of offensive efficiency catapult the Mavericks ahead of the Lakers in nearly every offensive statistical category with the lone exception being team assists per game.  And why shouldn't the Lakers be a better passing team as Kobe, it has been shown, is a much better passer than Dirk.  While Dirk and Kobe are comparable in rebounding, the Mavs hold opponents to less offensive rebounds while getting more rebounds and def. rebound per game than the Lakers.  

To sum up, I believe that Kobe is marginally better than Dirk Nowitzki defensively which facilitates the Laker superiority in opponents FG% and ppg.  I think Dirk Nowitzki is far better than Kobe offensively (save passing) in terms of efficiency and production within the flow of the offensive scheme.  Overall I say that Dirk Nowitzki is more valuable than Kobe Bryant as the centerpiece of a team.  Don't get me wrong, Kobe might be the more individually talented basketball player, but I'm going to build around Dirk!  

There are some that say that Kobe Bryant isn't a Top 10 basketball player in the league and I disagree, I can't name 10 players better than him.  For those that say Kobe Bryant isn't a Top 5 basketball player, well I can see where they're coming from.  Truth is I don't know that he is in my top 5, but he's damn close.  But for the people who say that Dirk Nowitzki isn't a Top 10 basketball player, whether he rebounds with "maniacal glee" or not, shows an absolute utter lack of objectivity.

Excellent points, their head to head record this year is proof positve IMO!  :rofl: