Quarterly report

[Reality]

Are teams where you expected them to be?

Eastern Conference

ATLANTIC W L
Philadelphia 13 12
New Jersey 11 12
Boston 10 14
New York 6 17
Toronto 5 20  

CENTRAL
Detroit 19 3  
Indiana 14 8
Milwaukee 13 9
Cleveland 13 9 .
Chicago 12 11  

SOUTHEAST
Miami 14 11
Orlando 9 13
Washington 9 14
Charlotte 7 18  
Atlanta 6 17


Western Conference
NORTHWEST
Minnesota 12 10
Denver 12 13  
Seattle 11 12
Utah 11 13
Portland 7 16

PACIFIC W L
LA Clippers 15 8
Phoenix 14 9
Golden State 14 11
LA Lakers 13 11
Sacramento 10 15

SOUTHWEST
San Antonio 19 5  
Dallas 18 6  
Memphis 14 9  
NO/Oklahoma City 11 13  
Houston 10 13  


 

[WayOutWest]

The only surprises for me are Indy, Wash and the Clippers.

Who could have predicted the mess Indy was in, figured even a moron like Artest would behave after last years brawl.

Washington should be doing better with the talent they have.

The Clips did make some moves over the off season so I guess a better record should have been expected, I think the Clips will have a decent run this year but be out in the first round.

Edit:

Didn't think the Rockets would be this bad either.

[Reality]

Eastern Conference

ATLANTIC W L
Philadelphia 13 12  Unreal that Mobert has an offense that has AI shooting a high (for him) % and near top assists.  Igs had career scoring night last week.  But then they revert back to no pass and Webber goes 4-15.  Whats it gonna take for consistency?  If AI gets top 5/top 5 will i think that be the 1st time since Tiny Archibald. :hail:
New Jersey 11 12 also inconsistent.
Boston 10 14  Lost a lot of tough games.  I look for them to compete for Atlantic.
New York 6 17  Brown overcame The Donald Clippers but can he overcome Isiahs GM moves.  Not this year.  
Toronto 5 20  Will give Chris Bosh to Lakers and then relocate franchise.  

CENTRAL
Detroit 19 3  Can't beat that start.  Sheed is under control, its all good.  They can be beat tho.
Indiana 14 8  Bottom line they have the 2nd best EC record.  Way to blow it Artest.
Milwaukee 13 9  I think they will gel even more in 2nd half.
Cleveland 13 9  Lebron is so much better then Kobe but they still need to play more team ball.
Chicago 12 11  I dont know.

SOUTHEAST
Miami 14 11  Play recording of Buss comments to Shaq daily and in locker room at playoff time.
Orlando 9 13  dk
Washington 9 14  weird.  Great streak then terrible.  Arenas a ballhog.
Charlotte 7 18  dk
Atlanta 6 17 Its gotten much better.  Might as well keep Harrington.


Western Conference
NORTHWEST
Minnesota 12 10  KG is the same, that being great.  When he kicks out either the Wally types will hit or they wont.  So goes the Wolves chances.
Denver 12 13  Nope.  
Seattle 11 12  Pathetick ownership/management.
Utah 11 13  AK should join the Spurs
Portland 7 16  inhale deeply.

PACIFIC W L
LA Clippers 15 8  Brand rules.  But i look for Dunleavy  to keep them no better then .600, which will be enough for 2nd.
Phoenix 14 9  DAntoni good coach.  Return of Stoud will have them ready for playoffs.
Golden State 14 11 dk
LA Lakers 13 11  Phildo has Kobe shooting less, winning more.  How long till Kobme reverts?  If Phil can get Kobe to share his toys, he may be one of the all time great coaches.
Sacramento 10 15  close only counts in...

SOUTHWEST
San Antonio 19 5  Bottom line its 19-5.  Many close wins tho.  Finley seems more comfy starting.  He'll need to get over that.  
Dallas 18 6  Avery seems to be for real.
Memphis 14 9   Greatest GM ever Jerry West trying to survive post Fabs Oberto.
NO/Oklahoma City 11 13  Love their home games.  
Houston 10 13  Scoring over 100 pts per game.  Van Gundy slipped a regular coffee.
 

[westkoast]

Quarterly report for Reality: D- cannot follow directions and often speaks jibberish.

Try living outside of a box score for a minute.  The Lakers are not winning because Kobe is shooting less.  I told you this many times before.  The reason why the Lakers are winning and Kobe is shooting less is because.......THEY ARE GETTING THE HANG OF THE TRIANGLE and PLAYING DEFENSE.  Kobe is not bailing out the offense when they break down and they are getting open shots earlier in the shot clock cuz the ball is moving correctly inside the triangle.  If you lived outside of the box score you would know that!!  Not to mention they are holding teams to under 40% shooting and rebounding well....but why bother you with facts?  You stick with those box scores!!


Suprises for me have to be PHX and LAC.  

Honestly I thought the Suns were just about toast without Amare for the season.  I expected them to be pretty far back in the WC by the time he came back but they are chugging right along without him.  Once he comes back the WC is going to be a brawlfest.

The Clippers I am VERY suprised.  I expected Brand to do his thing as he was improving quiet a bit on the offensive end last year.  What I didnt expect was Cassell to come in and really be the floor general like he has and Kaman to pick up his play to a whole new level.  That and of course the crazy start they have had so far.  Mucho Props to them but I am with WoW on the early exit.

[Reality]

Quarterly report for Reality: D- cannot follow directions and often speaks jibberish.

Try living outside of a box score for a minute.  The Lakers are not winning because Kobe is shooting less.  I told you this many times before.  The reason why the Lakers are winning and Kobe is shooting less is because.......THEY ARE GETTING THE HANG OF THE TRIANGLE and PLAYING DEFENSE.  Kobe is not bailing out the offense when they break down and they are getting open shots earlier in the shot clock cuz the ball is moving correctly inside the triangle.  If you lived outside of the box score you would know that!!

When in doubt just lie.

B-Rad, I've caught a good portion of many Flamer games this year, and the thought that Kobes 9-33 games are in no way shape or form the cause of any Laker losses is reserved for you Kobe sniffing apologists.

When he has three men on him, as those of us who do not lie have seen, yet elects to force a brick up, it has ZERO to do with his teamates *net getting the triangle.*

His shooting the past 5-6 games is well above 50%, attempts are drastically down, yet there is no change in his game. :bs:   Sprinkle some of that on your lawn.

[jn]

Even if the Clips cool off this year than can at least take solace in the fact that with Cassell and Kaman the are the ugliest NBA team. EVER!

I'll say this about the Wolves.  They have some solid elements in place but barring a trade they are going to lose a number of games due to poor rebounding.  

WOW I agree with you about Washington.  I wonder if they are starting to suffer a team wide case of neck strain from watching Gil Arenas.  

If you thought the Rockest offense was stale before, imagine what it will be like now that Yao is out for a few weeks.  

[westkoast]

Quarterly report for Reality: D- cannot follow directions and often speaks jibberish.

Try living outside of a box score for a minute.  The Lakers are not winning because Kobe is shooting less.  I told you this many times before.  The reason why the Lakers are winning and Kobe is shooting less is because.......THEY ARE GETTING THE HANG OF THE TRIANGLE and PLAYING DEFENSE.  Kobe is not bailing out the offense when they break down and they are getting open shots earlier in the shot clock cuz the ball is moving correctly inside the triangle.  If you lived outside of the box score you would know that!!

When in doubt just lie.

B-Rad, I've caught a good portion of many Flamer games this year, and the thought that Kobes 9-33 games are in no way shape or form the cause of any Laker losses is reserved for you Kobe sniffing apologists.

When he has three men on him, as those of us who do not lie have seen, yet elects to force a brick up, it has ZERO to do with his teamates *net getting the triangle.*

His shooting the past 5-6 games is well above 50%, attempts are drastically down, yet there is no change in his game. :bs:   Sprinkle some of that on your lawn.

This very posts shows exactly why you dont know what your talking about.  No need for me to reply after this  to prove you dont know what your talking about.  Like ive told you many many times, if you watched the games youd understand.  You just admited you dont watch the games and this post proves you are just talking out ofy our rear-end as usual.  Kobe hucking up a shot over defenders in the corner has to do with the triangle and spacing alot.  If you understood the triangle and how the Lakers were struggling with it prior to the to the road trip it would make a light bulb pop up over your head.  You are wrong little buddy, just keep it moving and go into the next thread spewing more crap you know very little about.  How are you telling me whats going on when you stay watching the box score and I stay watching every minute of the game?!

Anyone who thinks the Lakers are winning because Kobe is shooting 50%.....as opposed to the fact they are beating teams off points on turnovers, rebounding,  the team as a whole were avging 27 assists per game, and holding their opponents to 40% shooting obviously doesnt know much about basketball or is being an idiot.  Which one do you fall under?  Ask anyone who has been watching some of these games if I am wrong.

[Reality]

Even if the Clips cool off this year than can at least take solace in the fact that with Cassell and Kaman the are the ugliest NBA team. EVER!

I'll say this about the Wolves.  They have some solid elements in place but barring a trade they are going to lose a number of games due to poor rebounding.

Kamans trying to look hip hippee with the long hair.

Why doesn't KG attract FAs to MN en masse?  Is that cold MN scene too much of a turnoff?

Finley did tell KG playing with him was a close second to the Dunkar and the Spurs.

[Guest_Randy]

Quarterly report for Reality: D- cannot follow directions and often speaks jibberish.

Try living outside of a box score for a minute.  The Lakers are not winning because Kobe is shooting less.  I told you this many times before.  The reason why the Lakers are winning and Kobe is shooting less is because.......THEY ARE GETTING THE HANG OF THE TRIANGLE and PLAYING DEFENSE.  Kobe is not bailing out the offense when they break down and they are getting open shots earlier in the shot clock cuz the ball is moving correctly inside the triangle.  If you lived outside of the box score you would know that!!

When in doubt just lie.

B-Rad, I've caught a good portion of many Flamer games this year, and the thought that Kobes 9-33 games are in no way shape or form the cause of any Laker losses is reserved for you Kobe sniffing apologists.

When he has three men on him, as those of us who do not lie have seen, yet elects to force a brick up, it has ZERO to do with his teamates *net getting the triangle.*

His shooting the past 5-6 games is well above 50%, attempts are drastically down, yet there is no change in his game. :bs:   Sprinkle some of that on your lawn.

Hey, Reality -- let's see if the facts agree with you:

In the Lakers losses, Kobe has averaged .468% from the field -- in the Lakers wins, Kobe has averaged .49% from the field.  That certainly holds weight with your theory.

However, a couple of notes individually:
  Losses -- Kobe has shot better than 50% in four of those losses (.500, .500, .563 and .550).  In fact, against Minny, Kobe has shot .563 and .550 and the Lakers lost BOTH of those games.

  Wins -- In four of the Lakers wins, Kobe shot far under his .468 average in the losses (.355, .300, .417, and .429).  

As for you comment on his shot attempts during their winning streak:
  Laker loss - Kobe is 6 for 13 -- low shot attempts, high % = loss
  Laker win - Kobe is 14 for 24 -- high shot attempts, high % = win
  Laker win - Kobe is 10 for 17 -- med. shot attempts, high % = win
  Laker win - Kobe is 15 for 33 -- very high shot attempts, low % = win
  Laker loss - Kobe is 11 for 20 -- med. shot attempts, high % = loss
  Laker win - Kobe is 9 for 21 -- med. shot attempts, low % = win
  Laker win - Kobe is 5 for 12 -- low shot attempts, low % = win
  Laker win - Kobe is 14 for 24 -- high shot attempts, high % = win
  Laker loss - Kobe is 9 for 30 -- high shot attempts, low % = loss
  Laker loss - Kobe is 9 for 16 -- med. shot attempts, high % = loss
  Laker win - Kobe is 11 for 31 -- high shot attempts, low % = win

It doesn't seem as if the stats support your case, Reality.  While the Lakers ALWAYS want Kobe to shoot a high percentage -- it's obvious that it's just NOT that stat alone that puts the Laker's in the winning column, huh?  If it were just a couple of anomalies, I could agree with you -- but there are too many to agree with that simple assessment.  The fact is, as you have sooo "astutely" mentioned is that Kobe is double and triple teamed but the Lakers STILL need him to score to win games.  If someone can shut Kobe down for the night, I don't see the Lakers having a great shot at winning that game.  I do think the stats bear that out a great deal more than your assumption.  Kobe is a great deal of the Lakers offense.

However, as has already been mentioned -- I think the latest string of wins have a great deal more to do with defense than Kobe as an individual (or his shooting percentage).  The Lakers have beaten some good teams during this stretch -- and they are doing it with a squad that is inferior in it's parts compared to other teams -- which means you HAVE to give PJ credit for what the Lakers are doing.  IMO, PJ gets more of the credit for these wins than Kobe does!  

Kobe is a GREAT player -- he is a top 5 player -- however, he isn't the one that has the Lakers playing team ball -- that's PJ (although Kobe IS the floor leader).  

Bottom line though -- the Lakers aren't going very far in the playoffs without a decent post player -- and right now the Lakers don't have anyone who fits that bill!

[Reality]

In the Lakers losses, Kobe has averaged .468% from the field -- in the Lakers wins, Kobe has averaged .49% from the field.  That certainly holds weight with your theory.

However, a couple of notes individually:
  Losses -- Kobe has shot better than 50% in four of those losses (.500, .500, .563 and .550).  In fact, against Minny, Kobe has shot .563 and .550 and the Lakers lost BOTH of those games.

  Wins -- In four of the Lakers wins, Kobe shot far under his .468 average in the losses (.355, .300, .417, and .429). 

As for you comment on his shot attempts during their winning streak:
  Laker loss - Kobe is 6 for 13 -- low shot attempts, high % = loss
  Laker win - Kobe is 14 for 24 -- high shot attempts, high % = win
  Laker win - Kobe is 10 for 17 -- med. shot attempts, high % = win
  Laker win - Kobe is 15 for 33 -- very high shot attempts, low % = win
  Laker loss - Kobe is 11 for 20 -- med. shot attempts, high % = loss
  Laker win - Kobe is 9 for 21 -- med. shot attempts, low % = win
  Laker win - Kobe is 5 for 12 -- low shot attempts, low % = win
  Laker win - Kobe is 14 for 24 -- high shot attempts, high % = win
  Laker loss - Kobe is 9 for 30 -- high shot attempts, low % = loss
  Laker loss - Kobe is 9 for 16 -- med. shot attempts, high % = loss
  Laker win - Kobe is 11 for 31 -- high shot attempts, low % = win

Randolph wrote:  "Wins -- In four of the Lakers wins, Kobe shot far under his .468 average in the losses (.355, .300, .417, and .429).  

The streak games you post the Lakers are 3-1 when Kobe is over 50%So what are you talking about?

Also I do not consider the Utah game a "win".  Kobe was 11-33.  If you disagree i have no need to say anything other then Laker Fan Dan thinks Utah was robbed also.  End of Utah game discussion.

What are the Lakers win/loss when he shoots more then 30? :nod:

I do want to prop you for bringing in stats to the table.
The Lakers are doing much better when he shoots a higher %.  I stand by that.

[WayOutWest]

Randolph wrote:  "Wins -- In four of the Lakers wins, Kobe shot far under his .468 average in the losses (.355, .300, .417, and .429).  

The streak games you post the Lakers are 3-1 when Kobe is over 50%So what are you talking about?

Also I do not consider the Utah game a "win".  Kobe was 11-33.  If you disagree i have no need to say anything other then Laker Fan Dan thinks Utah was robbed also.  End of Utah game discussion.

What are the Lakers win/loss when he shoots more then 30? :nod:

I do want to prop you for bringing in stats to the table.
The Lakers are doing much better when he shoots a higher %.  I stand by that.

Reality,

You did NOT say when Kobe shoots better the Lakers win.  You said when he shoots LESS.

If you're going to change your stance that's fine by me, but you need to CONCEED on your first point before you move on to you NEW point.

[Guest_Randy]

In the Lakers losses, Kobe has averaged .468% from the field -- in the Lakers wins, Kobe has averaged .49% from the field.  That certainly holds weight with your theory.

However, a couple of notes individually:
  Losses -- Kobe has shot better than 50% in four of those losses (.500, .500, .563 and .550).  In fact, against Minny, Kobe has shot .563 and .550 and the Lakers lost BOTH of those games.

  Wins -- In four of the Lakers wins, Kobe shot far under his .468 average in the losses (.355, .300, .417, and .429). 

As for you comment on his shot attempts during their winning streak:
  Laker loss - Kobe is 6 for 13 -- low shot attempts, high % = loss
  Laker win - Kobe is 14 for 24 -- high shot attempts, high % = win
  Laker win - Kobe is 10 for 17 -- med. shot attempts, high % = win
  Laker win - Kobe is 15 for 33 -- very high shot attempts, low % = win
  Laker loss - Kobe is 11 for 20 -- med. shot attempts, high % = loss
  Laker win - Kobe is 9 for 21 -- med. shot attempts, low % = win
  Laker win - Kobe is 5 for 12 -- low shot attempts, low % = win
  Laker win - Kobe is 14 for 24 -- high shot attempts, high % = win
  Laker loss - Kobe is 9 for 30 -- high shot attempts, low % = loss
  Laker loss - Kobe is 9 for 16 -- med. shot attempts, high % = loss
  Laker win - Kobe is 11 for 31 -- high shot attempts, low % = win

Randolph wrote:  "Wins -- In four of the Lakers wins, Kobe shot far under his .468 average in the losses (.355, .300, .417, and .429).  

The streak games you post the Lakers are 3-1 when Kobe is over 50%So what are you talking about?

Also I do not consider the Utah game a "win".  Kobe was 11-33.  If you disagree i have no need to say anything other then Laker Fan Dan thinks Utah was robbed also.  End of Utah game discussion.

What are the Lakers win/loss when he shoots more then 30? :nod:

I do want to prop you for bringing in stats to the table.
The Lakers are doing much better when he shoots a higher %.  I stand by that.

Actually, Reality, that ISN'T true:

The Lakers haven't always fared better when he has taken fewer shots:

Laker loss - Kobe is 6 for 13 -- low shot attempts, high % = loss, 6 assists
Laker loss - Kobe is 9 for 16 -- low shot attempts, high % = loss, 8 assists
Laker loss - Kobe is 7 for 18 -- low shot attempts, low % = loss

Now, let's look at your NEWEST claim:

That the Lakers fare better when he shoots a higher percentage:

Denver       W  13-28   .464 – Low percentage, Lakers still won
Phoenix      L   13-26   .500 – High percentage, Lakers still lose
Denver       W  16-31   .516 – High percentage, Lakers win (Kobe takes a LOT of shots)
Atlanta       W  15-26   .577 – High percentage, Lakers win
Minny         L   12-26  . 462 – Low percentage, Lakers lose
Philly          L     7-27   .259 – Low percentage, Lakers lose
Memphis     L    7-18    .389 – Low percentage, Lakers lose (Kobe takes fewer shots)
New York   W 15-36    .417 – Low percentage, Lakers win (Kobe takes a LOT of shots)
LAClips       L 12-35    .343 – Low percentage, Lakers lose (Kobe takes a LOT of shots)
Charlotte      L 17-34    .500 – High percentage, Lakers win (Kobe takes a LOT of shots)
Seattle         W 12-26    .462 – Low percentage, Lakers win
New Jersey  L 14-36     .389 – Low percentage, Lakers lose (Kobe takes a LOT of shots)
SA Spurs      L  9-33     .273 – Low percentage, Lakers lose (Kobe takes a LOT of shots)
Utah            W 11-31    .355 – Low percentage, Lakers win (Kobe takes a LOT of shots)
Minny          L   9-16    .563 – High percentage, Lakers lose (Kobe takes fewer shots)
Chicago       W  9-30    .300 – Low percentage, Lakers win (Kobe takes a LOT of shots)
Milwaukee  W 14-24    .583 – High percentage, Lakers win
Toronto       W  5-12     .417 – Low percentage, Lakers win (Kobe takes fewer shots)
Chicage      W   9-21     .429 – Low percentage, Lakers win
Minny          L 11-20     .550 – High percentage, Lakers lose
Dallas         W 15-33     .455 – Low percentage, Lakers win (Kobe takes a LOT of shots)
Memphis    W 10-17     .588 – High percentage, Lakers win (Kobe takes fewer shots)
Washington W 14-24    .583 – High percentage, Lakers win
Houston       L   6-13     .462 – Low percentage, Lakers lose (Kobe takes fewer shots)
Dallas          W 18-31    .581 – High percentage, Lakers win (Kobe takes a LOT shots)

So, here are what the stats say:
The Lakers have lost 7 games when Kobe had a low fg%
The Lakers have won 5 games when Kobe had a high fg%
The Lakers have won 8 games when Kobe had a low fg%
The Lakers have lost 4 games when Kobe had a high fg%

Please show me how the actual facts support your statement.    
 

[WayOutWest]

Please show me how the actual facts support your statement.

IMO the Evolution vs Intelligent Design debate will be settled before that happens.

[westkoast]

This whole debate and stat digging time spent would have been saved if Reality listened to people who watch Laker games on the regular.

Kobe's % and number of shots is not the determining factor in the Laker win/loss column.  If you really want to know the deal then look at the defensive side of the stats for those games.  You'll see the shooting %, rebounding, and points off turnovers in the games won and lost will tell the story.    You know exactly like I was saying weeks ago.  While it does make a difference it is not the determining factor so far this year and will not be for the rest of the year.

Anyone can look at go 'Oh Kobe is scoring alot and shooting 51% thats why the Lakers are winning'

BUT...if you watched the game and then looked at the defensive stats youd see

11th in defense
Opponents avg 94 points a game against the Lakers
They are holding teams to less rebounds than they grab themselves
Over the last 6 games theyve held teams to 40% or lower shooting.  So far this year they are holding teams to 42% shooting.

[Reality]

I do not get my stats from a Pink Unicorn brand computer.  They seem much too pink, as if WOW had worked on it and tweaked the motherboard.  The ONLY Kobme game he has had during The Streak is a 9-30 vs Chicago.  

Okay here is the original realistic Reality quotes which as always I stand by:

"B-Rad, I've caught a good portion of many Flamer games this year, and the thought that Kobes 9-33 games are in no way shape or form the cause of any Laker losses is reserved for you Kobe sniffing apologists.

When he has three men on him, as those of us who do not lie have seen, yet elects to force a brick up, it has ZERO to do with his teamates *net getting the triangle.*

His shooting the past 5-6 games is well above 50%, attempts are drastically down, yet there is (you say) "no change in his game." :bs:

Along with "LA Lakers 13-11 Phildo has Kobe shooting less, (meaning the 9-33 crap has stopped during the steak) winning more. How long till Kobme reverts? If Phil can get Kobe to share his toys, he may be one of the all time great coaches.

The Streak - Overall % is definitely better.  Attempts are down with the exception of the Miracle 62 pt game.
Minny L 9-16 .563 – High percentage, Lakers lose (Kobe takes fewer shots)
Chicago W 9-30 .300 – Low percentage, Lakers win (Kobe takes a LOT of shots)
Milwaukee W 14-24 .583 – High percentage, Lakers win
Toronto W 5-12 .417 – dont consider 41% low by 9-33 Kobme standards
Chicage W 9-21 .429 – ditto
Minny L 11-20 .550 – High percentage, Lakers lose
Dallas W 15-33 .455 – 45% def not low for Kobme
Memphis W 10-17 .588 – High percentage, Lakers win (Kobe takes fewer shots)
Washington W 14-24 .583 – High percentage, Lakers win
Houston L 6-13 .462 – Low percentage, Lakers lose (Kobe takes fewer shots)
Dallas W 18-31 .581 – High percentage, Lakers win (Kobe takes a LOT shots)

Once again, the ONLY Kobme game he has had during The Streak is a 9-30 vs Chicago.