Author Topic: Artest demands a trade . . .  (Read 1839 times)

Guest_Randy

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Artest demands a trade . . .
« on: December 12, 2005, 11:29:51 AM »
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Updated: Dec. 12, 2005, 11:13 AM ET
Artest says Pacers 'better off without him'ESPN.com news services

Ron Artest stunned the Indiana Pacers on Saturday by requesting to be traded, telling the Indianapolis Star that he believes the team would be better off without him.


Ron Hoskins/NBAE via Getty Images
Ron Artest says the Pacers would be better off without him.
Artest, who has missed three two games because of a wrist injury, told the Star that he doesn't like playing for coach Rick Carlisle and would prefer to be dealt to the New York Knicks.

"I think I cause a lot of problems here," Artest told the Star in a one-on-one interview Saturday; the story first appeared on the newspaper's Web site. "If the trade rumors, if there is any truth -- maybe it won't be a bad thing. They probably could win more games without me."

Artest said he wants to play in an offense where he's allowed to shoot more, adding, "If it was a perfect world, I would be going to New York."

Pacers chief executive Donnie Walsh was taken aback by Artest's request, saying the former All-Star and defensive player of the year had never raised such concerns with team officials.

"I've never heard him say anything before," Walsh told the Star. "He hasn't talked to me, and I see him every day.

"He can always come up and talk to me or [team president] Larry Bird," Walsh said. "From here on out, I expect Ronnie to be a professional. ... [This] isn't the best way to get a trade done."

"You never want to lose someone like that," Carlisle told the newspaper, calling Artest "one of the elite talents in the league."

Indiana went 2-1 in the games Artest missed.

"If Ron feels that way, then that's the way he feels," Jermaine O'Neal said after the Memphis game. "We're going to go to war with any guy that wants to wear a Pacers uniform.

"Bottom line, if you want to wear it, we're with you. If you don't, see you later. ... If he doesn't want to be here, he's not going to give his full effort."

One of the NBA's best defenders as well as one of the league's most combustible players, Artest set off last season's Pistons-Pacers brawl at the Palace of Auburn Hills by charging into the stands after a fan who threw a drink. Artest was suspended for the balance of the season -- 73 games.

"I still think my past haunts me here," Artest told the Star. "I think somewhere else I'm starting fresh. I'm coming in with baggage but people already know about it and how I'm going to be. Either they're going to be for me or they're not going to trade for me. Here I think my past haunts me.

"I think [Indiana] will be a better team without me."

Artest said Carlisle is a good coach, but criticized the Pacers' structured offense as too restricted for him.

"I'm so demanding of the ball. It's not my fault," Artest told the Star. "Every time somebody is on me it's a mismatch. It messes up the offense. I like Coach [Carlisle] as a person, but I don't like playing for Coach. I like my team, though."

"Don't get it twisted. He's a very good coach. He knows what he's doing. I personally don't like playing for him. I would not want to see him get fired for me after all the immaturity I've been through with this organization."

Artest, whose contract expires in 2008 and includes an $8.5 million player option for 2008-09, makes $6.5 million this season.

Hmm, can the Pacers get Artest for Peja?  If so, they ought to consider that in a heartbeat.  While Artest is the Pacers lead defender -- he is also their lead internal problem child.  They MIGHT be a better team without him -- also, Peja would be a good fit for this team offensively.  His outside shooting would give JO more room in the paint and Stephon Jackson is capable of being more of an offensive factor for this team.

The Kings?  Well they need something -- and judging by their moves this year -- they don't give a flip about chemistry so Artest might be a good fit!

Offline WayOutWest

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Artest demands a trade . . .
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2005, 11:45:38 AM »
Quote
Quote
Updated: Dec. 12, 2005, 11:13 AM ET
Artest says Pacers 'better off without him'ESPN.com news services

Ron Artest stunned the Indiana Pacers on Saturday by requesting to be traded, telling the Indianapolis Star that he believes the team would be better off without him.


Ron Hoskins/NBAE via Getty Images
Ron Artest says the Pacers would be better off without him.
Artest, who has missed three two games because of a wrist injury, told the Star that he doesn't like playing for coach Rick Carlisle and would prefer to be dealt to the New York Knicks.

"I think I cause a lot of problems here," Artest told the Star in a one-on-one interview Saturday; the story first appeared on the newspaper's Web site. "If the trade rumors, if there is any truth -- maybe it won't be a bad thing. They probably could win more games without me."

Artest said he wants to play in an offense where he's allowed to shoot more, adding, "If it was a perfect world, I would be going to New York."

Pacers chief executive Donnie Walsh was taken aback by Artest's request, saying the former All-Star and defensive player of the year had never raised such concerns with team officials.

"I've never heard him say anything before," Walsh told the Star. "He hasn't talked to me, and I see him every day.

"He can always come up and talk to me or [team president] Larry Bird," Walsh said. "From here on out, I expect Ronnie to be a professional. ... [This] isn't the best way to get a trade done."

"You never want to lose someone like that," Carlisle told the newspaper, calling Artest "one of the elite talents in the league."

Indiana went 2-1 in the games Artest missed.

"If Ron feels that way, then that's the way he feels," Jermaine O'Neal said after the Memphis game. "We're going to go to war with any guy that wants to wear a Pacers uniform.

"Bottom line, if you want to wear it, we're with you. If you don't, see you later. ... If he doesn't want to be here, he's not going to give his full effort."

One of the NBA's best defenders as well as one of the league's most combustible players, Artest set off last season's Pistons-Pacers brawl at the Palace of Auburn Hills by charging into the stands after a fan who threw a drink. Artest was suspended for the balance of the season -- 73 games.

"I still think my past haunts me here," Artest told the Star. "I think somewhere else I'm starting fresh. I'm coming in with baggage but people already know about it and how I'm going to be. Either they're going to be for me or they're not going to trade for me. Here I think my past haunts me.

"I think [Indiana] will be a better team without me."

Artest said Carlisle is a good coach, but criticized the Pacers' structured offense as too restricted for him.

"I'm so demanding of the ball. It's not my fault," Artest told the Star. "Every time somebody is on me it's a mismatch. It messes up the offense. I like Coach [Carlisle] as a person, but I don't like playing for Coach. I like my team, though."

"Don't get it twisted. He's a very good coach. He knows what he's doing. I personally don't like playing for him. I would not want to see him get fired for me after all the immaturity I've been through with this organization."

Artest, whose contract expires in 2008 and includes an $8.5 million player option for 2008-09, makes $6.5 million this season.

Hmm, can the Pacers get Artest for Peja?  If so, they ought to consider that in a heartbeat.  While Artest is the Pacers lead defender -- he is also their lead internal problem child.  They MIGHT be a better team without him -- also, Peja would be a good fit for this team offensively.  His outside shooting would give JO more room in the paint and Stephon Jackson is capable of being more of an offensive factor for this team.

The Kings?  Well they need something -- and judging by their moves this year -- they don't give a flip about chemistry so Artest might be a good fit!
Any team would be stupid to give up an all-star like Peja for an idiot like Artest, Bitch Kupcake excluded of course.

Indy would be lucky to get a bunch of bench players for him.  Then again this is the NBA.
 
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Offline Skandery

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Artest demands a trade . . .
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2005, 11:47:03 AM »
You know Randy, I'm right with you there.  I don't think this would be a bad trade for either party.  

Sacramento has ALWAYS harped on needing to get better defensively and proceeding to be the same old defensive sieves of the last decade.  

Whereas Peja could probably use the change of scenery and a team where he isn't seen as the go-to-guy (that'll be Jermaine O'Neal).  We can continue to make excuses for Peja (injury, shooting slump, bad hair day) the fact remains this guy is a damn good player who will NEVER be a leader.  But as far as followers go, there are precious few you'd rather have on your side.

Don't get me wrong if this trade happens it'll be better for Indiana than Sacto, but Sacto could do much worst than Ron Artest.  Also Adelman is more apt to letting Artest freelance offensively than Carlisle is, which might be a good thing but don't quote me.

On a side note, this is yet another reason why Ron Artest is an immature jerk.  And reading the comments from JO, I'm amazed at how this guy has matured into being a true leader, a cornerstone of a powerhouse team.  Far from his days of being fined for misconduct alongside Kelvin Cato in Portland way back.          
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Offline JoMal

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Artest demands a trade . . .
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2005, 11:52:13 AM »
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Hmm, can the Pacers get Artest for Peja?  If so, they ought to consider that in a heartbeat.  While Artest is the Pacers lead defender -- he is also their lead internal problem child.  They MIGHT be a better team without him -- also, Peja would be a good fit for this team offensively.  His outside shooting would give JO more room in the paint and Stephon Jackson is capable of being more of an offensive factor for this team.

The Kings?  Well they need something -- and judging by their moves this year -- they don't give a flip about chemistry so Artest might be a good fit!
The King's problems are not so much chemistry, but familiarity.

While Artest certainly would make an intriquing pick up, Peja is also needed for Adelman to make everything about his offense work. Artest is not necessarily known for fitting into the offenses that his coaches would like to see run, as his comments regarding Carlisle alluded to. This would be unacceptible here in Sacramento.

Plus, why would Sacramento do a straight up trade of Peja, known as a good guy, for Ron, who certainly was right about bringing his "known" baggage with him to any team he goes to? Lately, Peja has been terribly affected by his injury to his shooting hand, and the Kings' advantage at home was gone. The last two games, his shooting stroke has returned as his hand healed, and the Kings' offense benefitted from the outside shooting game.

But that is unfortunately the big  problem here. The Kings are really only successful if they hit their outside shots. This enables them to do more penetration, and their defensive lapses can be covered up.

Which would be the main benefit of picking up a player like Artest. That good defense. But I would hate to see Peja go. The Kings' other pickups over the summer have mostly been great, especially Bonzi Wells, who is adding a level of toughness the Kings would not otherwise have. Abdur-Rahim is also starting to fit in, and suddenly he is a shot-blocker as well.

But where the Kings have been exploited the most are the intangibles. Atheletic teams who play defense, hussle for loose balls and aggressively rebound shut the Kings down completely, regardless of their records. I also, I hate to say this, question the heart of Miller, Bibby, and Peja at times. They are the first players to give up if things start to go south, while Wells and SAR seem to make the effort, at least.

Wells, by the way, is looking to be the floor leader of this team, over Bibby. He is the guy who goes over to Peja to tell him to keep his chin up when his shot was off earlier. He goes after rebounds while teammates wait for the ball to essentially stop rolling on the court so they can pick it up. He is the inside scorer when no one else wants to go inside, even if he gets buffaloed continuously like he did against the Rockets last week.

At this point, I would not mind if the Kings picked him up after this season and signed him long term. He clearly enjoys playing basketball and so far he has behaved himself to his teammates, the media, and the city.  
 
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Artest demands a trade . . .
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2005, 11:58:44 AM »
Ah, the benefits of having a player in his contract year.

Mark my words, Jomal - Bonzi Wells is a cancer - a spoiled, selfish, arrogant cancer.  Sign him at your own peril, because next year, he'll be back to the awful, disruptive kind of person he's always been.

You can get a lot out of his skills until he gets that contract.  But once that contract is signed, you'll figure out you've signed the same old Bonzi Wells.

Mark my words.
 
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Offline westkoast

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Artest demands a trade . . .
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2005, 11:58:46 AM »
I am kinda suprised at Artest's words.  He is doing something many NBA players dont do, which is *try to* grow up (I said TRY not IS heh) and put the blame on themselves for actions they have taken.  Now whether he changes his attitude, we wont know until later on, but at least this is a step in the right direction.  The team probably would be better off without him and he has caused the organization alot of problems.

IMO Artest for Peja would work out well *IF* he finally does realize he has an attitude problem.  Artest can make up for the points lost by Peja leaving and he is 10x the defender anyone on the Kings is.  The Pacers would get a bonafied shooter who would help stretch the defense (Jermaine O Neal would love it).  Sounds all good in this thread.  Sadly, this thread isnt the real world and it would be a gamble.  At this point ANY sort of good defender is going to give this team a boost.  Back when the Kings were playing great basketball part of the reason was Christie's ability to clamp down on perimeter players.  Artest can do that and then some.  He may even be able to be the bruiser that Brad Miller never could be for his guards.  No one is afraid of the Kings defense.  Artest in purple will def change that.

If Artest wants to play defense and score then the Kings are the right place to go.  I doubt NY/NJ have players that they could deal to Indiana for Artest that would make sense.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2005, 12:00:36 PM by westkoast »
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Offline JoMal

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Artest demands a trade . . .
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2005, 12:08:44 PM »
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Ah, the benefits of having a player in his contract year.

Mark my words, Jomal - Bonzi Wells is a cancer - a spoiled, selfish, arrogant cancer.  Sign him at your own peril, because next year, he'll be back to the awful, disruptive kind of person he's always been.

You can get a lot out of his skills until he gets that contract.  But once that contract is signed, you'll figure out you've signed the same old Bonzi Wells.

Mark my words.
Sure, Joe. I know his reputation, and whatever he said or did in Memphis that made his coach shut him down for the season makes me wonder.

But as I recall, his major complaint just about everywhere he has played was about playing time, and he was always likely to say the wrong thing to the wrong people at the wrong time about it, especially if he felt the guy in front of him was a lesser player. His 'other' issues while in Portland seemed to affect just about everyone on that team, but other notorious 'cancers' from those days, like Rasheed Wallace, seem to have improved with distance from that city.

What I have noticed so far with Bonzi in Sacramento is a player who is certainly doing the right things to fit in, and if that is due to his contract being up, he at least knows that a good showing this year will be financially beneficial to him next year. Which makes him a good investment. As long as he continues as a starter, here or elsewhere, I would give him the benefit of the doubt regarding his work on repairing his reputation.  
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Offline JoMal

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Artest demands a trade . . .
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2005, 12:16:02 PM »
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I am kinda suprised at Artest's words.  He is doing something many NBA players dont do, which is *try to* grow up (I said TRY not IS heh) and put the blame on themselves for actions they have taken.  Now whether he changes his attitude, we wont know until later on, but at least this is a step in the right direction.  The team probably would be better off without him and he has caused the organization alot of problems.

IMO Artest for Peja would work out well *IF* he finally does realize he has an attitude problem.  Artest can make up for the points lost by Peja leaving and he is 10x the defender anyone on the Kings is.  The Pacers would get a bonafied shooter who would help stretch the defense (Jermaine O Neal would love it).  Sounds all good in this thread.  Sadly, this thread isnt the real world and it would be a gamble.  At this point ANY sort of good defender is going to give this team a boost.  Back when the Kings were playing great basketball part of the reason was Christie's ability to clamp down on perimeter players.  Artest can do that and then some.  He may even be able to be the bruiser that Brad Miller never could be for his guards.  No one is afraid of the Kings defense.  Artest in purple will def change that.

If Artest wants to play defense and score then the Kings are the right place to go.  I doubt NY/NJ have players that they could deal to Indiana for Artest that would make sense.
Much of what you say is true, and the weaknesses the Kings have shown with the players they currently have certainly bears out the need for better perimeter defense, which these guys can't deliver consistently. While Bonzi Wells can play some defense, he is not consistent enough on certain players, who he can not keep up with.

But for Peja to really fit in with any offense, that offense has to run the plays for him. His best games were with Divac or Webber drawing the coverage to them and passing back out to a wide open Peja. He does not do as well when he has to create his own shots, though at times he looks good doing it.

If the Pacers chose to let the inside game dominate their offense, trading for Peja would essentially make him disappear.    
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

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Artest demands a trade . . .
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2005, 12:17:13 PM »
Wait a minute.  He wants to shoot more AND wants to be traded to a team with Marbury and Jamal Crawford?

Just last week I read the SI article about Artest and Bird.  There was a lot fluff about how much Ron LOVES Indiana as a team, as a state and how much he LOVED and HONORED he is to be playing for Bird.  Guess that's pretty much shot to @!3* now.  

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Artest demands a trade . . .
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2005, 12:48:39 PM »
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Wait a minute. He wants to shoot more AND wants to be traded to a team with Marbury and Jamal Crawford?

And with Larry Brown.  Yeah, he's gonna like you going iso 15 times/game.

That said, when Ron Artest is playing (and playing well), he's as vital to Indiana's success as Jermaine O'neal.  The guy's one of the very great 2 way players at the wing position.  If the 76ers could get him without giving up AI or AI, I'd take the risk that he doesn't go psycho.

Offline westkoast

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Artest demands a trade . . .
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2005, 01:53:13 PM »
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I am kinda suprised at Artest's words.  He is doing something many NBA players dont do, which is *try to* grow up (I said TRY not IS heh) and put the blame on themselves for actions they have taken.  Now whether he changes his attitude, we wont know until later on, but at least this is a step in the right direction.  The team probably would be better off without him and he has caused the organization alot of problems.

IMO Artest for Peja would work out well *IF* he finally does realize he has an attitude problem.  Artest can make up for the points lost by Peja leaving and he is 10x the defender anyone on the Kings is.  The Pacers would get a bonafied shooter who would help stretch the defense (Jermaine O Neal would love it).  Sounds all good in this thread.  Sadly, this thread isnt the real world and it would be a gamble.  At this point ANY sort of good defender is going to give this team a boost.  Back when the Kings were playing great basketball part of the reason was Christie's ability to clamp down on perimeter players.  Artest can do that and then some.  He may even be able to be the bruiser that Brad Miller never could be for his guards.  No one is afraid of the Kings defense.  Artest in purple will def change that.

If Artest wants to play defense and score then the Kings are the right place to go.  I doubt NY/NJ have players that they could deal to Indiana for Artest that would make sense.
Much of what you say is true, and the weaknesses the Kings have shown with the players they currently have certainly bears out the need for better perimeter defense, which these guys can't deliver consistently. While Bonzi Wells can play some defense, he is not consistent enough on certain players, who he can not keep up with.

But for Peja to really fit in with any offense, that offense has to run the plays for him. His best games were with Divac or Webber drawing the coverage to them and passing back out to a wide open Peja. He does not do as well when he has to create his own shots, though at times he looks good doing it.

If the Pacers chose to let the inside game dominate their offense, trading for Peja would essentially make him disappear.
Loosing Christie, as you know very well, was huge in that regard.   Even losing a quick defensive minded guard like Bob Jackson was huge in that same regard.   There are so many premier perimeter guards in the league having a guy who can slow down and/or stop is key.  Especially since the Kings frontline is not exactly known for its shot blocking.  I haven't seen many games outside of when they have been playing the local two teams down here but I do remember from the Laker game that they were able to penetrate pretty easily.  Brad Miller is the man but you can only ask for so much from him.  Maybe Artest's competitive nature and tough nose defense will motivate the others to do the same on that end of the floor.  Christie motivated the Kings to play defense at points.

I think Peja could work in the Indiana offense if they do the things you mentioned.  Too bad they didnt have someone who could pass in the post like Vlade and Chris.   Or anyone who could make a high/low bounce pass to the baseline (one of my favorite Peja-ran plays)  Peja really got going offensively when he was able to move without the ball.  I just dont see Tinsley or Jermaine O Neal able to get him the ball in the same fashion.

I disagree that if they stick to the interior scoring of Jermaine O'Neal Peja is going to be useless.  If Carlisle can add some plays ran specifically for Peja into the play rotation I think it will allow Jermaine O'Neal more than enough space to get right where he needs to be for a higher % shot.  Peja doesn't need to dominate the ball like Artest does to score so it should be easier (and he should be more willing) to tweak the offense to accomidate him.
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Offline Reality

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Artest demands a trade . . .
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2005, 02:58:04 PM »
It's on.  Pacers prez Donnie Walsh said trade is being sought, Artest is inactive with pay.

Offline Reality

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« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2005, 03:16:00 PM »
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Any team would be stupid to give up an all-star like Peja for an idiot like Artest, Bitch Kupcake excluded of course.

Indy would be lucky to get a bunch of bench players for him.  Then again this is the NBA. [/quote]
 Maybe Artest was showing some maturity here, aside ffom his huge mistake of going to the media instead of going to Pacers Donnie Walsh.  Walsh says there were other issues leading up to this, so lets see what the media has next.

For now tho Artest does take a lot of (all?) the responsibility on himself, and says Carlisle is a good coach and that the Pacers would be better off without him.  Thats not a diss of the Pacers IMO.

Larry Brown have anything to do with this? :huh:

Horrible tho that he would go to the media after the Pacers stood by him after CrowdAttackFest 2004.

 

Offline westkoast

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« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2005, 04:11:57 PM »
Quote from: Reality,Dec 12 2005, 03:16 PM
Quote from: WayOutWest,Dec 12 2005, 04:45 PM
Any team would be stupid to give up an all-star like Peja for an idiot like Artest, Bitch Kupcake excluded of course.

Indy would be lucky to get a bunch of bench players for him.  Then again this is the NBA.
Maybe Artest was showing some maturity here, aside ffom his huge mistake of going to the media instead of going to Pacers Donnie Walsh.  Walsh says there were other issues leading up to this, so lets see what the media has next.

For now tho Artest does take a lot of (all?) the responsibility on himself, and says Carlisle is a good coach and that the Pacers would be better off without him.  Thats not a diss of the Pacers IMO.

Larry Brown have anything to do with this? :huh:

Horrible tho that he would go to the media after the Pacers stood by him after CrowdAttackFest 2004. [/QUOTE]
I kinda took it as a spur of the moment type confession.  He placed alot of blame on himself for why he wants to leave and they are all valid reasons.  

Artest is not going to goto a team in the EC so he chances of going to NY are slim to none.  That would be dumb of Indiana to weaken themselves a bit defensively and then turn around and give someone they face often and could see in the playoffs a big boost.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2005, 04:12:32 PM by westkoast »
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Artest demands a trade . . .
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2005, 04:16:32 PM »
Ron Artest reminds me of TO.  Why can't he just shut up and play?

I wouldn't want him on my team.  He has proven himself to be a head case.  Until he can handle that, he's not worth having in spite of his skills.

I can't understand why he isn't happy in Indiana, a team that has the chance to go all the way, and has some great players on it.  Why would anyone want to leave a situation like that to go to NY?

 :eek2:

Ron should appologise to the Pacers organization, stay with the team and hire a psychiatrist to help him understand why he can't shut up and be happy in Indiana.