Author Topic: Spurs will Pop see the light  (Read 2527 times)

host Reality

  • Guest
Spurs will Pop see the light
« on: March 05, 2004, 11:23:23 PM »
Looks like the false prophesies of our demise that wheezed out were greatly eggagerated.

117 points and now 113 in beating Dallas.  3-1 since Timmy Dunker went down and only a choke job vs Memphis stopping 4-0.  But more importantly back to the offense.  Could Pop possibly breathe the air, see the light, experience the energy that with runners like Turkey Parker and Manu that up tempo is the answer.  Could his instate cousin Van Grunty also see the light?  Ok we'll let Hou worry about Hou but I'm hoping Pop sees these two runnin games as food for thought.  Food for Action.

Beers all around.  Clutch time Malik is a stud and we still have him  :D  

Offline WayOutWest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7411
    • View Profile
Spurs will Pop see the light
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2004, 11:53:42 PM »
Quote
Looks like the false prophesies of our demise that wheezed out were greatly eggagerated.

117 points and now 113 in beating Dallas.  3-1 since Timmy Dunker went down and only a choke job vs Memphis stopping 4-0.  But more importantly back to the offense.  Could Pop possibly breathe the air, see the light, experience the energy that with runners like Turkey Parker and Manu that up tempo is the answer.  Could his instate cousin Van Grunty also see the light?  Ok we'll let Hou worry about Hou but I'm hoping Pop sees these two runnin games as food for thought.  Food for Action.

Beers all around.  Clutch time Malik is a stud and we still have him  :D
Reality,

I know you're not "really" into basketball or understand the game like most of us on the board, but Dallas is not the team you want to implement that strategy on.  ;)  
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Guest_Reality

  • Guest
Spurs will Pop see the light
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2004, 12:14:12 AM »
But they are mentioned as an "elite team" continuously by your fellow LakerHouse mate(s) when shouting the Spurs record vs "elite teams".  At least after every loss the Spurs had to them earlier.  

Indeed, Randy show W.O.W. the stats for Dallas vs the top 4 including his Flamers.
He might "really" want to see them.

Spurs and especially the Rockets O opening up would be your nightmare.

Anyway its only two games, but you have to "really" know how often the Spurs score under 100 to see the potential signifigance of two 100+s in a couple days span.  My hope is that Pop opens it up for the rest of the season.   :P  :D

   

Guest_Randy

  • Guest
Spurs will Pop see the light
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2004, 02:10:46 AM »
Quote
But they are mentioned as an "elite team" continuously by your fellow LakerHouse mate(s) when shouting the Spurs record vs "elite teams".  At least after every loss the Spurs had to them earlier.  

Indeed, Randy show W.O.W. the stats for Dallas vs the top 4 including his Flamers.
He might "really" want to see them.

Spurs and especially the Rockets O opening up would be your nightmare.

Anyway its only two games, but you have to "really" know how often the Spurs score under 100 to see the potential signifigance of two 100+s in a couple days span.  My hope is that Pop opens it up for the rest of the season.   :P  :D
Actually, it proves that the Spurs can't beat the Mavs when TD is playing -- without him, they do just fine!   :lol:   Umm, could it have ANYTHING to do with how predictable the Spurs offense is with TD under Pop's reign?  I guess I'll only worry about the Spurs IF TD is hurt -- I'll be relieved to see TD on the floor (so will the Mavs).

Guest_Reality

  • Guest
Spurs will Pop see the light
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2004, 09:17:45 AM »
I concur with you Randy.  Not that the #1 or#2 ranked MVP costs the Spurs games of course not, but that Zit entrenches himself in that stoopid no motion offense too often when Dunkin is in the game.  Of course not last year vs the Lakers  :lol:

But you are indeed correct sir.  That's why I'm hoping Pop is having some lightbulbs go off in his brain and lets the Spurs run both now and when Dunker is back.

WooHoo!!

 

Offline Lurker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3705
    • View Profile
    • Email
Spurs will Pop see the light
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2004, 02:32:25 PM »
Quote
Actually, it proves that the Spurs can't beat the Mavs when TD is playing -- without him, they do just fine!   :lol:   Umm, could it have ANYTHING to do with how predictable the Spurs offense is with TD under Pop's reign?  I guess I'll only worry about the Spurs IF TD is hurt -- I'll be relieved to see TD on the floor (so will the Mavs).
Well, Randy. considering Duncan only played 1 1/2 games against Dallas this year it is hard to make any conclusion about how they do when the Spurs are at full strength.  Also it could indicate that homecourt is going to be very important.

And with Minny's loss the Spurs are only 3 games out of the #2 seed.  Spurs have 2 addl home games, Minny 2 addl road games.  It could be a very interesting race down the stretch.
It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave.  Keep on thinking free.
-Moody Blues

Guest_Reality

  • Guest
Spurs will Pop see the light
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2004, 04:57:47 PM »
Right on Brother Lurker.

Plus for those who insist on it look at Spurs stats vs elite the last month.
We want to win em when it counts in May anyways.

110+ continue!  WooHoo  :D
Turkey can be this years Stevie Kerr in the playoffs.

Offline westkoast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8624
    • View Profile
    • Email
Spurs will Pop see the light
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2004, 07:49:31 PM »
Quote
I concur with you Randy.  Not that the #1 or#2 ranked MVP costs the Spurs games of course not, but that Zit entrenches himself in that stoopid no motion offense too often when Dunkin is in the game.  Of course not last year vs the Lakers  :lol:

But you are indeed correct sir.  That's why I'm hoping Pop is having some lightbulbs go off in his brain and lets the Spurs run both now and when Dunker is back.

WooHoo!!
Yup.  They beat the Lakers because they were driving and kicking, Jackson/Parker/Manu would slice their way to the rim, and of course Duncan was doing his thing.  The Lakers and everyone else last year had no idea how they were going to be hit on the offensive end.  2 years ago the Spurs were dominated because they were unable to switch it up enough.  Now here is my question for the Spurs fans....

Is it Pops fault because he has not tried to switch up the plays or is it the supporting casts fault those off nights because they are not being aggresive and/or not hitting shots?  I wasn't sure last year in the playoffs if the players were taking over the offense themselves or if Pop actually was calling the shots.
http://I-Really-Shouldn't-Put-A-Link-To-A-Blog-I-Dont-Even-Update.com

Offline Lurker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3705
    • View Profile
    • Email
Spurs will Pop see the light
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2004, 11:09:30 AM »
IMO the Spurs offense breaks down into two "sets".  

First is the inside-out game of dumping to the low post (Duncan), wait for the double/triple team and pass out to the 3 pt line.  Usually the person who feeds the post then cuts through the lane while the other players rotate towards the top along the 3-pt line.  If the double isn't quick/hard enough Duncan takes the shot.   Some times this will evolve into Duncan being isolated out off the block where he will use glass and often get the "and 1" when he comes up with his arms while the defender is reaching in.  The lack of this facet of the game is a big reason the Spurs have struggled to hold 4th quarter leads while Duncan has been out.

This is Pop's favorite as it usually ends up with a good look at the basket and controls the tempo of the game.  The key is to have 2 "shooters" on at least during part of the game.  Last year it was Parker/Jackson/Kerr/Bowen this year it has to be Parker/Manu/Hedo/Bowen/Ward.  This is also why the Spurs will go for 5-6 minute stretchs of games without scoring.

The second set is the motion offense that has been run since Duncan has been out.  It works real well with Parker/Manu/Hedo all on the floor together....all 3 can handle the ball, get into the lane and hit the outside shot.  Puts a lot of pressure on the defense.  Rasho & Horry are also better passers than most people realize.  Bowen has worked onhis ball handling skills - he often fakes the 3 and drive in for a short jumper or floater to the rim.  It allows the shooters to get more in rythym.  The Spurs try to run this with Duncan on the floor but it often doesn't work.  The players either don't cut as hard or end up standing around watching Duncan and it dissolves into set #1 above.   Also since this offense tends to lead to a faster tempo, more turnovers and puts more pressure on the transitional defense Pop rarely uses it.

With Duncan I would say the mix is set 1 - 85-90%;  set 2 - 10-15%
Without Duncan set 1 - 15-20% (Rasho/Rose as post); set 2 - 80-85%

And as far as the Spurs "gelling"....it is often misunderstood that with Pop's simple offense why does it take so long.  It isn't the offense that takes time.  It is the defensive sets that take time.  The Spurs play a very team oriented defense.  Lots of rotations/switches....it has always been almost a matchup zone for years.  It takes time for the players to learn their assignments first, then they have to develop that trust in their teammates that comes from playing together.  Pop stated just last week that the Spurs have better defensive numbers on the road than they have at home.  He attributes it to that the team is closer on the road and that trust develops faster.

Another thing I started to notice in the last few games before Duncan went out - the five that finish the game for the Spurs.  It is usually Parker, Manu, Bowen, Hedo & Duncan.   The Spurs also will often employ their all-international lineup: Parker, Manu, Hedo, Duncan & Rasho.  This lineup is one of the better defensive lineups for the Spurs.  

Another x-factor to watch for the Spurs is a young sg named Devin Brown.  He is the reason the Spurs let Mercer go.  He had beaten him out as the #3 sg behind Hedo & Manu.  Pop has gone to using Manu as the backup pg to get more minutes for Brown the last few games.

Let the questions/protestations/criticisms begin.......

 :ph34r:  
It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave.  Keep on thinking free.
-Moody Blues

Offline spursfan101

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1166
    • View Profile
    • http://
    • Email
Spurs will Pop see the light
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2004, 11:27:03 AM »
Who would have thought the Spurs would only lose 1 game since Duncan has been out. Quiet shocking. I like Manu playing pg, he gives Pop headaches, but he causes the other team fits. He's a helluva passer and penetrator, and has good range.
Paul

Guest_Reality

  • Guest
Spurs will Pop see the light
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2004, 04:18:18 PM »
sf101,

I would have.  Because Dunker is out i knew they would improve?  No of course not.  Rather because all along including several games in last years Champ run, it's known and shown that when the Spurs open up the offense they improve dramatically.

Lurkers analysis of offensive sets and stat times for Stand n Veg vs Open Up are dead on accurate.  As to the question of "Do the players open up on their own or does Pop order them to?", while unknown it seems very apparant that Open Up is only done by accident/injury.  This season the last 35 games with Duncan the Spurs eclipsed 100 pts 3 times.  With Dunker out the last 5 games the Spurs have passed 100 3 times.  Passed 110+ twice.  All double digit wins by the way.  I wish i knew what Manu says to Pop and team regarding offense.  He has been on an international champ team and also was the #1 scoring option on that team for years.  Also what do the other Spurs including Dunker himself are say to Pop about the improvements when Open Up offense is run.  Now if only Pop will see that upon Dunker coming back the Spurs should continue to run.  That O combo will pose a vastly better threat to our West Conference title obstacles.  Duncan can run, its that Pop holds the Spurs back when he is in.  A combo of lots of running and s-o-m-e Timmy Dunker halfcourt would be superb.  Superb!   :D   In fact we saw that last year in some playoff games.

As to Pops repressiveness, remember only back to last year.  The situation in several key games screamed for an outside shooter.  Steve Kerr was left to sit on the bench.  He got in only because of major foul problems with the other Spurs guards.  Well we then saw what SuperSteve did.  He flat turned the series around vs Dallas.  

Go Spurs!

Guest_Randy

  • Guest
Spurs will Pop see the light
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2004, 11:51:00 PM »
Quote
sf101,

I would have.  Because Dunker is out i knew they would improve?  No of course not.  Rather because all along including several games in last years Champ run, it's known and shown that when the Spurs open up the offense they improve dramatically.

Lurkers analysis of offensive sets and stat times for Stand n Veg vs Open Up are dead on accurate.  As to the question of "Do the players open up on their own or does Pop order them to?", while unknown it seems very apparant that Open Up is only done by accident/injury.  This season the last 35 games with Duncan the Spurs eclipsed 100 pts 3 times.  With Dunker out the last 5 games the Spurs have passed 100 3 times.  Passed 110+ twice.  All double digit wins by the way.  I wish i knew what Manu says to Pop and team regarding offense.  He has been on an international champ team and also was the #1 scoring option on that team for years.  Also what do the other Spurs including Dunker himself are say to Pop about the improvements when Open Up offense is run.  Now if only Pop will see that upon Dunker coming back the Spurs should continue to run.  That O combo will pose a vastly better threat to our West Conference title obstacles.  Duncan can run, its that Pop holds the Spurs back when he is in.  A combo of lots of running and s-o-m-e Timmy Dunker halfcourt would be superb.  Superb!   :D   In fact we saw that last year in some playoff games.

As to Pops repressiveness, remember only back to last year.  The situation in several key games screamed for an outside shooter.  Steve Kerr was left to sit on the bench.  He got in only because of major foul problems with the other Spurs guards.  Well we then saw what SuperSteve did.  He flat turned the series around vs Dallas.  

Go Spurs!
Okay, let's not forget the fact that teams are used to the offense that the Spurs are USED to running with TD in the set.  They will begin to adapt to the Spurs version of the motion offense and begin to set defenses against them.  The Spurs will still beat a lot of teams with their talent (Rose, Horry, Manu, Parker, Turk and even Nesty) but at this point teams are just now beginning to get an understanding of the Spurs offense since it's a new look.  Not saying that they don't deserve props for their success, just that when you are used to playing a team and their offensive sets change, it takes some getting used to and coaches have to adopt a different defensive scheme.  IMO, Pop would be a lot smarter to keep using this at times (same thing for SacTown who tends to change to a different offense with CWebb in the game).  Motion offense is quite beautiful to watch -- I'd rather see that offense than the dump and grind (whether it's the Spurs or LA doing it).