Aaron McKie signs with the Lakers . . .

[Joe Vancil]

Funny this started the talk of 'paying someone worth the money' how is Tracy Mcgrady or Yao Ming worth max money more than Kobe?

Well, for starters, they've never run MVP candidates out of town.

 

[JoMal]

JoMal,

A simple reading comprehension class would be a great thing for you -- you ought to check into it.  I know that working for the government must make you lose desire for the actual facts but you ought to at least look into it.

Go back and actually reread my post -- I put very little stock in our current young players -- go back and actually read it rather than putting Reality's twisted version to it.  You will actually see that I stated that the Lakers are holding off until they have a great deal of cap money to put a team together.  Presently, they are going to see which young players can work together with Kobe as role players with whoever the Lakers can manage to pick up and/or steal from another team. 

But history shouldn't be forgotten -- it often repeats itself.  The fact that it has repeated itself many times in LA gives LA fans hope for the future rather than the dismal thought that many NBA fans have (their best days are behind them).

At what point in this discussion would it be most apt to suggest you are continuously trying to blow smoke up your butt?

So all of this roster fodder collected by Kupchek this summer and from the Shaq trade has been just to gain potential salary cap manueverability to 'steal' potential Lakers from other teams.....oh.....and "to see which young players can work together with Kobe as role players..." and those stolen bodies from elsewhere??

Is this in the 2005/06 Laker Press Guide somewhere, because I, for one, would absolutely luuuuve to see this stated as the official policy of the team for collecting the players currently on the Laker team.

[Joe Vancil]

I'm still waiting for a Piston or Spurs fan to chime in on the subject of championships before I start to pay attention.

Well, that's not me.  Guess I'll have to leave you with the more palatable view of Reality, but somehow, I don't think you're going to listen to him, either.

 

[JoMal]

Where do they hold parades for Pacific Division winners?

Who did that, the Lakers? Oh, right, they started a parade but one block into it the smell of burning police squad cars overcame the celebs throwing molotov cocktails at the homeless people they were using to park their Beamers on.

[westkoast]

Funny this started the talk of 'paying someone worth the money' how is Tracy Mcgrady or Yao Ming worth max money more than Kobe?

Well, for starters, they've never run MVP candidates out of town.

Thats funny I was unaware it was all Kobe's fault why Shaq left.  I was under the impression he pissed people off and the Lakers manangement decided to stay with the younger star.

Im just dying to wait to hear someone come and talk about T-Mac off the court....

[Joe Vancil]

Thats funny I was unaware it was all Kobe's fault why Shaq left. I was under the impression he pissed people off and the Lakers manangement decided to stay with the younger star.

Well, perhaps I was mistaken about the whole situation.  Maybe it's been Jerry Buss and Mitch Kupchak who Shaq has focused his comments on.  Maybe it's just me who hears the criticisms of Kobe Bryant figuring prominently into Shaq's comments.

Laker management made a *CHOICE*, because Bryant necessitated them *MAKING* a choice.  And it's not all Bryant's fault.  But he sure did nothing to keep Shaq in town.

Are you telling me that you think if Bryant walked in to Kupchak and Buss and said, "If you don't make sure to keep Shaq, I'm signing with the Clippers," Buss and Kupchak would have said, "Tough luck - the big guy has worn out his welcome here"?

Bryant didn't lobby for keeping Shaq or for re-signing Phil Jackson, and, if he were a good teammate at all, he should have been doing that.  He can't simply shrug his shoulders and say, "It's not my concern."  At best, that's being as lazy as Shaq was in his conditioning during the average off-season.  Most likely, it's purposeful neglect - and you can't trust teammates willing to play the game that way.
 

[westkoast]

Thats funny I was unaware it was all Kobe's fault why Shaq left. I was under the impression he pissed people off and the Lakers manangement decided to stay with the younger star.

Laker management made a *CHOICE*, because Bryant necessitated them *MAKING* a choice.  And it's not all Bryant's fault.  But he sure did nothing to keep Shaq in town.

 

You 100% sure of this or are you assuming?

As much as you guys like to think Kobe makes every decision in this organization he doesnt.  Anyone who has paid any kind of attention to the Lakers for say the last 20 years would know how involved Jerry Buss is in decision making.  You could ask Jerry West.  They butted heads quite a bit when they were working together.  Buss has a nice sized ego himself.

I never said he didnt want to be the man but Kobe didnt run Shaq out of town.  That was a decision made by the owner and management.  Did Kobe factor in? Of course because he was the younger star they wanted to stay with.  Did Kobe want to be the sole man? 99.99999% sure he did but its not his call and never would be because of how Buss is.

So again what makes Yao and T-Mac so great im curious.  Why would LA build their teams around them?  And why is T-Mac worth the money and Kobe isnt when he only plays on one side of the floor?

[Joe Vancil]

westkoast,

Am I 100% sure?  No.  ARE YOU 100% sure that Kobe's wishes weren't the most major factor?

Shaq was an egotistical jerk when he SIGNED with the Lakers.  Doesn't it seem to be a little fishy that the Lakers didn't want to pawn him off until Bryant's contract year?

After a season where the Lakers enjoyed *MORE* success than they had the season before, the brass decided that *NOW* Shaq was too problematic?

Granted - the case is built on circumstancial evidence...but there's a MOUNTAIN of circumstancial evidence which no one wants to tackle.  The MOST LIKELY possibility is that the Laker brass wanted to make sure Kobe was staying, and for that reason, jettisonned anything that he could point to as a reason he didn't want to stay.

All you have to do is tell me that you believe that Kobe Bryant wanted Shaq to stay, and did all he could as a teammate to make sure that that happened, and I'll leave you alone on this point.  (I'll think you're a fool, but I'll leave you alone on the point.)  But if Bryant did ANY LESS than that, then I'd say he's a big part of the reason Shaq is out of town - and possibly, the BIGGEST reason.

Shaq's own behavior made it easy for Buss to do it, but something tells me that if Buss thought he could have his cake and eat it to, that's what he'd have done.  Ego or not, Buss is no dummy.
 

[westkoast]

westkoast,

Am I 100% sure?  No.  ARE YOU 100% sure that Kobe's wishes weren't the most major factor?

Shaq was an egotistical jerk when he SIGNED with the Lakers.  Doesn't it seem to be a little fishy that the Lakers didn't want to pawn him off until Bryant's contract year?

After a season where the Lakers enjoyed *MORE* success than they had the season before, the brass decided that *NOW* Shaq was too problematic?

Granted - the case is built on circumstancial evidence...but there's a MOUNTAIN of circumstancial evidence which no one wants to tackle.  The MOST LIKELY possibility is that the Laker brass wanted to make sure Kobe was staying, and for that reason, jettisonned anything that he could point to as a reason he didn't want to stay.

All you have to do is tell me that you believe that Kobe Bryant wanted Shaq to stay, and did all he could as a teammate to make sure that that happened, and I'll leave you alone on this point.  (I'll think you're a fool, but I'll leave you alone on the point.)  But if Bryant did ANY LESS than that, then I'd say he's a big part of the reason Shaq is out of town - and possibly, the BIGGEST reason.

Shaq's own behavior made it easy for Buss to do it, but something tells me that if Buss thought he could have his cake and eat it to, that's what he'd have done.  Ego or not, Buss is no dummy.

No I dont know for sure but I also am not making comments like tihs one below:

"Laker management made a *CHOICE*, because Bryant necessitated them *MAKING* a choice."

Ya Shaq had an ego when he came.  That didnt change BUT other things did.  One being his motivation.  Shaq also wasnt 4 years hurt when the Lakers aquired him.  Nor was Shaq not conditioning himself at all during the off-season.  He also wasnt getting to his mid-30s either.  The Lakers brass did want Kobe to stay.  Their goal was to rebuild with youth.  Shaq is not considered a younger player.  I find just as much other "mounting evidence" as you have.  Difference is I can admit Kobe did factor in.  You cant admit that there is alot of other shit Shaq did that warranted him being moved.

Shaq, from his own mouth, said the biggest reasons he left were because 'management didnt speak to him about the Phil Jackson situation' and because PJ wasnt going to be the coach.  This was from his own mouth.  If Kobe was the main reason PJ left then why is Phil Jackson back?  If he hated Kobe that much and didnt think he was the least bit coachable why is he currently getting ready for the pre-season??

[Laker Fan]

No Weskoast, the only ones on this board who assume are Laker fans, we are the only ones who's heads are in the clouds, who make statements with no facts to back them up and we certainly have no right to expect a future rise to glory because after all, our team has NEVER done this before, we've never sank to obscurity than risen from the ashes like the proverbial Phoenix, those painful years between 1972-73 and 1980-81 are a figment of our imagination, as are the woeful years between 1981-92 and 1998-99, (you remember THAT era, Randy Pfund, Del Harris, and absolutey no hope for success).

So you see, Koast, with no track record of rebuilding, with no history of showing up every few year and DESTROYING the league, we should just keep our little mouths shut, Laker fans don't have any right by virtue of those 9 Championship banners the team has brought to LA to say anything about rebuilding or to assume we'll be back in winning form in the future, our team is not the only team to have appeared mulitples time in the Finals in every decade for the past 6 decades, winning a championship (or several) in all of them except the 60's, (oh wait, yes they are) so we need to let fans of REAL basketball teams offer insight here on this board. Let the fans of that perrenial bridesmaid (but only of the WC championship, never good enough for the Finals) Sacramento Kings ponitficate on what it takes to put a championship together, let those asterisk marred Spurs fans (and all associated bandwaggoners   ) tell us what it takes to be consistantly successful, let those Sixers fans with that impressive dynasty of 1982-83 judge where LA goes from here, let those who might be better off hibernating in the summer as well as winter while they wait for the Jazz to EVER mount a serious run again tell us who we should have kept, an ingrate full of himself fat aging jerk, or a young, hypertalented full of himself jerk, we don't know.

We are, after all just fans of the most CONSISTANTLY successful basketball team the world has ever seen.

[Skandery]

most CONSISTANTLY successful basketball team the world has ever seen.

Is there a Celtics fan on this board that wants to chime in on this?

50s - 3 championships
60s - 8 championships
70s - 2 championships
80s - 3 championships  

Oh and before anyone says where have they been the last decade and a half, it took two *DEATHS* to put a stop to their winning ways.  
 

[JoMal]

We are, after all just fans of the most CONSISTANTLY successful basketball team the world has ever seen.

Is this a test?

I really don't care about the success stories, or lack thereof, of my team or the others you mention, because, as always with Laker fans, the fallback postion to any criticism of the LaLa land team is to attack the source. It is certainly easier then the alternative, which is to discuss their own team's future.

I give more credit to any poster who can AVOID the tit for tat commentary. If we were talking about the Spurs or the Sixers or the Heat or the Kings, then by all means let's rant and rave about the lack of success those programs have had.

But to leap into a parrallel discussion about how many championships the Lakers have won compared to Utah......

Thank God the Lakers themselves offer so much soap opera to talk about and dissect, because you guys measure about an inch on the argumentative scale.

But let me join in, none the less, and make it as palatable as posible for all you dedicated Laker posters here.

No Weskoast, the only ones on this board who assume are Laker fans, we are the only ones who's heads are in the clouds, who make statements with no facts to back them up and we certainly have no right to expect a future rise to glory because after all, our team has NEVER done this before, we've never sank to obscurity than risen from the ashes like the proverbial Phoenix, those painful years between 1972-73 and 1980-81 are a figment of our imagination, as are the woeful years between 1981-92 and 1998-99, (you remember THAT era, Randy Pfund, Del Harris, and absolutey no hope for success).

So you see, Koast, with no track record of rebuilding, with no history of showing up every few year and DESTROYING the league, we should just keep our little mouths shut, Laker fans don't have any right by virtue of those 9 Championship banners the team has brought to LA to say anything about rebuilding or to assume we'll be back in winning form in the future, our team is not the only team to have appeared mulitples time in the Finals in every decade for the past 6 decades, winning a championship (or several) in all of them except the 60's, (oh wait, yes they are) so we need to let fans of REAL basketball teams offer insight here on this board. Let the fans of that perrenial bridesmaid (but only of the WC championship, never good enough for the Finals) Sacramento Kings ponitficate on what it takes to put a championship together, let those asterisk marred Spurs fans (and all associated bandwaggoners  ) tell us what it takes to be consistantly successful, let those Sixers fans with that impressive dynasty of 1982-83 judge where LA goes from here, let those who might be better off hibernating in the summer as well as winter while they wait for the Jazz to EVER mount a serious run again tell us who we should have kept, an ingrate full of himself fat aging jerk, or a young, hypertalented full of himself jerk, we don't know.

That's what YOU are, so what am I? :wacko:

[JoMal]

most CONSISTANTLY successful basketball team the world has ever seen.

Is there a Celtics fan on this board that wants to chime in on this?

50s - 3 championships
60s - 8 championships
70s - 2 championships
80s - 3 championships  

Oh and before anyone says where have they been the last decade and a half, it took two *DEATHS* to put a stop to their winning ways.

COME ON, SKANDERY, YOUR MAD.....MAD!!!!!!

As anyone with any lick of brains, good looks, and charm will tell you, for the last twenty years, the Celtics have simply been judging the potential of their young players in supporting roles to <insert current STAR PLAYER du jour here> and planning a massive salary cap dump in <insert suitable year this will be accomplished here> so they can sign all those future star Celtic players currently wasting their time on other teams.

[Laker Fan]

Lakers in the:
'40's = 2 Championships, 2 Finals appearances
'50's = 3 Championships, 4 Finals appearances
'60's = 0 Championships, 7 Finals appearances
'70's = 2 Championships, 3 Finals appearances
'80's = 4 Championships, 7 Finals appearances
'90's = 1 Championship,  2 Finals appearances
'00's = 2 Championships, 3 Finals appearances (so far)

That is an appearance (minimum of 3 appearances actually) in EVERY DECADE, and only one less championship that the the vaunted Celtics, (are they still in the NBA?)

Celtics in the:
'40's = 0 Titles, 0 appearances
'90's = 0 Titles, 0 appearances
'00's = 0 Titles, 0 appearances (so far)

I did say CONSISTANT, didn't I? Celtics couldn't carry the LAkers jock when it comes to COSISTANCY.
 

[rickortreat]

Well, yeah the Lakers are worse off than the Sixers now.  At least the Sixers will make the playoffs next year, and are on the rise again after loosing to the Lakers.  The Lakers will most likely MISS the playoffs again next year.

But all during the time the Sixers haven't been a good team, they've been an entertaining team.  As a fan, I'm a realist. They aren't an elite team, and their chances this year to win it all look pretty slim.

But they have a good group of young players, and now should be able to rebound with everyone, thanks to the addition of Hunter.  Igoudala and Korver should continue to get better, and Iverson is the best point in the league.  That's about all a fan can hope for, unless they have Shaq or TD on their squad.  At least we didn't trade away our critical stud player!