GM's best and worst moves

[ziggy]

Hoopshype.com has a General Managers section, where they detail every move for each GM for their present team.  Thought it might be thought provoking to see if you agree regarding your teams GM (or any other GM you want to hammer on).  The web page is
http://www.hoopshype.com/general_manager.htm

Since this is a Philly board we will start with Billy King.  I have inked to his page, and all the transactions he has made (signing, waiving, drafting, trading)
http://www.hoopshype.com/general_managers/billy_king.htm



Their opinion of the best move is the Chris Webber for Skinner, Williamson, and Thomas deal.

Worst move is trading Larry Hughes, Bruce Bowen, and Billy Owens to GS in a 3 way, and getting Toni Kukoc from Chicago.


So Derek and Rick, do you agree?  Any other opinions.

[Derek Bodner]

Well, no.

My first problem is that while he was technically the gm of the Sixers when we traded Larry Hughes, he really wasn't.  Larry Brown was the "president of basketball operations".  Essentially, larry told billy who to get, and billy made it work under the cap.  He was a capologist at that point.  He began being a full fledged gm when larry brown left.

Besides, Larry Hughes wasn't ready for primetime when he was here.  And we got off to a 41-14 start the first full season kukoc was here.

If we're counting Larry Brown moves:
Best: Jerry Stackhouse for Theo Ratliff and Aaron McKie.
Worst: Trading a first round pick for Jerome friggin Moiso.

If we're not counting Larry Brown moves:
Best: Drafting Iguodala.
Worst: giving Eric Snow an extension that killed his trade value.

[ziggy]

How about

Kupchack,
http://www.hoopshype.com/general_managers/mitch_kupchak.htm

Best - Signing Payton and Malone

Worst - Trading Shaq

and Kevin O'Conner in Utah
http://www.hoopshype.com/general_managers/kevin_oconnor.htm

Best - Signing Boozer

Worst - Drafting Raul Lopez

and RC Buford in SA
http://www.hoopshype.com/general_managers/rc_buford.htm

Best - Traded Danny Ferry to Indiana for Ron Mercer from Indiana, and Turkoglu from Sacramento

Worst - Resigned Malik Rose


and Geoff Petrie
http://www.hoopshype.com/general_managers/geoff_petrie.htm

Best move - Trading Richmond and THorpe for Webber

Worst Move - Trading Webber for Williamson, Skinner and Thomas

and Kevin McHale
http://www.hoopshype.com/general_managers/kevin_mchale.htm

Best Move - Drafting Kevin Garnett

Worst Move - Trading Marburyand spare parts for Terrell Brandon and spare parts


and John Nash
http://www.hoopshype.com/general_managers/john_nash.htm

Best Move  -  Trading Rasheed for Shareef and Theo

Worst move  -  Trading Bonzi Wells for for Wes Person and a #1 pick

That is pretty much the teams for the regular posters.

I will throw up a few more later
 

[ziggy]

Well, no.

My first problem is that while he was technically the gm of the Sixers when we traded Larry Hughes, he really wasn't.  Larry Brown was the "president of basketball operations".  Essentially, larry told billy who to get, and billy made it work under the cap.  He was a capologist at that point.  He began being a full fledged gm when larry brown left.

Besides, Larry Hughes wasn't ready for primetime when he was here.  And we got off to a 41-14 start the first full season kukoc was here.

If we're counting Larry Brown moves:
Best: Jerry Stackhouse for Theo Ratliff and Aaron McKie.
Worst: Trading a first round pick for Jerome friggin Moiso.

If we're not counting Larry Brown moves:
Best: Drafting Iguodala.
Worst: giving Eric Snow an extension that killed his trade value.

I don't know which were Brown moves and which were King's, but looking at the hoops hype page I would say his best "moves" were

#1 - Drafting Iguodala
#2 - getting Korver for cash
#3 - Trading Mark Bryant, Art Long and a #1 for Kenny Thomas
#4 - Releasing Olden Polynice


Worst
#1 - Trading Speedy Claxton for for Mark Bryant and John Salmons
#2 - Signing Olden Polynice
#3 - Signing Vernon Maxwell

Overall his best moves are much better than his worse moves are bad.  I don't think the Webber deal was good or bad.  I think that sometimes you need to roll the dice.  They gave up some good players, but they weren't going to win anything with them.  The salaries are basically the same, so the risk is worth a shot.  I don't think the Webber deal will be great, but it won't be bad.

[Derek Bodner]

Best - Signing Payton and Malone

Worst - Trading Shaq

Didn't really get them anywhere, did it?  But we gotta pick a best, right?  Guess I'll agree.

Best - Signing Boozer

Worst - Drafting Raul Lopez

Don't agree with the Lopez drafting being the worst.  It's late first round.  I'll go with the trade they just made.  Or at least supposedly made.  Is the snyder for 'tag deal official?  If so, that's my pick.

Best - Traded Danny Ferry to Indiana for Ron Mercer from Indiana, and Turkoglu from Sacramento

Worst - Resigned Malik Rose

Says he signed Manu after he was drafted.  I'll go with that.
Worst - Rasho.

Best move - Trading Richmond and THorpe for Webber

Worst Move - Trading Webber for Williamson, Skinner and Thomas

I'll go with Williams for Bibby as the best.  What a steal.  Although Webber was a great, great pickup.  I'll call that a tossup.

Worst...dunno.  I'm blanking on what that's completely backfired on him.

Best Move - Drafting Kevin Garnett

Worst Move - Trading Marburyand spare parts for Terrell Brandon and spare parts

Best is a nobrainer.  Worst?  I'll disagree.  I'll give him a pass because of injuries.  Worst, IMO, has to be the Joe Smith fiasco.

Best Move - Trading Rasheed for Shareef and Theo

Worst move - Trading Bonzi Wells for for Wes Person and a #1 pick

Huh?  What did the sheed trade get the Blazers?  Two years of non playoff ball, an albatross contract in theo, and a first round pick?

Nah.  I'll go with the drafting of Telfair, followed by Przybilla signing.

Worst?  No way.  I actually liked that trade for the Blazers.  Bonzi needed to go, and you got an expiring + a first round pick.  Theo re-signing for me.  That's just an albatross of a contract for a guy who's been injury prone for a half a decade.

[Derek Bodner]

Overall his best moves are much better than his worse moves are bad. I don't think the Webber deal was good or bad. I think that sometimes you need to roll the dice. They gave up some good players, but they weren't going to win anything with them. The salaries are basically the same, so the risk is worth a shot. I don't think the Webber deal will be great, but it won't be bad.

Agree completely.  They were a .500 team.  No reason not to roll the dice.  And it's not going to restrict comcast's spending, so there's no real risk, especially since his deal comes off before Kenny's did anyway.

[ziggy]

and John Nash

Best Move  -  Trading Rasheed for Shareef and Theo

Worst move  -  Trading Bonzi Wells for for Wes Person and a #1 pick

 

I disagree that the Sheed move turned out to be a good move.  At the time it was a good move, but in the end the let Shareef walk, and signed Theo to an ill advised extention.  I wouldn't call that a great move.

I agree with Telfair and Przybilla all the way.  I also think Martell Webster will be big time scorer in a few years.  I watched him 3 times in summer league, and I was very impressed.  He is smooth, and has a beautiful stroke.  He did not look like a guy straight out of high school.  This seems like a bit of a low profile pick nationally, but I think it was a good pick.

I agree on the Bonzi deal, I would actually put it close to the top.  Bonzi was a CANCER, a very TOXIC cancer.  He had to go.  We got Sergei Monia for him.  I watched Monia in 5 CSKA games on NBA TV, and I am excited about him.  Very athletic, a physical defender, good range on his jumper, a good rebounder, and good in the open court, good finisher on the fast break.  Not a passer, and not much of a ball handler, struggles creating his own shot, especially off the dribble.  Getting him at #23, beause of contract buyout issues was a real coup.


Worst move  -  At the time I didn't think the Theo extention was so bad, but it has turned out to be a very large albatross.  If he can get healthy next year that will change a lot of things.

I think the fact that he got only a #1 for Shareef is also a "bad" move.  No reason he couldn't have done better.

[ziggy]

Kupchack,

Best - Signing Payton and Malone

Worst - Trading Shaq

 

Good moves by Mitch Kupchack

Best move was clearly signing Karl Malone.  With him in the lineup the Lakers were totally dominant.

Trading Payton and Rick Fox and a conditional #1 for Chris Mihm, Chucky Atkins, and Jumaine Jones.

Worst moves
Signing JR Rider
Signing Samaki Walker
Drafting Andrew Bynum.  This was a mistake, especially at #10.  I am sorry, but the probability that a 7' HS player with a good future would slide to #10 is very low.  You know every team who picked before the Lakers scouted him big time, you just can't blow a chance at 7' player like that.  They all passed.  
The Lakers should have traded down, or drafted Korolev, Green or May.  I think passing on Danny Granger was a mistake.  Trade down to #15-#16, and see if any of those guys are available, and get another player in the process.  I also think trading down to the high 20's and taking a chance on Nate Robinson or Jarret Jack would have made much more sense.
 

[Guest_Randy]

Good moves by Mitch Kupchack

Best move was clearly signing Karl Malone. With him in the lineup the Lakers were totally dominant.

Trading Payton and Rick Fox and a conditional #1 for Chris Mihm, Chucky Atkins, and Jumaine Jones.

Kupchak had ZERO to do with signing Malone -- while it was a FANTASTIC fit for LA, Mitch doesn't deserve any of the credit, IMO.

I might agree if it hadn't been for two things -- 1) Mihm wasn't getting much playing time and he still hasn't shown much -- I'd also agree with Atkins if we hadn't dumped him (along with Caron Butler  :angry: ) for Kwame Brown.  Trading our two players and a conditional #1 -- we didn't give much away in the area of players but the conditional #1 hurts -- the Lakers haven't had very many #1's because we continue to trade those picks away.

Worst moves
Signing JR Rider
Signing Samaki Walker
Drafting Andrew Bynum. This was a mistake, especially at #10. I am sorry, but the probability that a 7' HS player with a good future would slide to #10 is very low. You know every team who picked before the Lakers scouted him big time, you just can't blow a chance at 7' player like that. They all passed.
The Lakers should have traded down, or drafted Korolev, Green or May. I think passing on Danny Granger was a mistake. Trade down to #15-#16, and see if any of those guys are available, and get another player in the process. I also think trading down to the high 20's and taking a chance on Nate Robinson or Jarret Jack would have made much more sense.

Umm, Ziggy passing up Bynum because everyone else is passing on him doesn't mean he isn't good.  Look around and you will find draft picks that have slipped just because they aren't well known.  As for Korolev and May, I don't think these guys are impact players -- as for Granger or Green, the Lakers simply don't need a SG or SF -- these are the ONLY positions that are set for the Lakers.  We desperately need frontcourt players and we desperately need a PG.  I too would have like the Lakers to have taken a chance on Nate Robinson but I don't have a problem with them rolling the dice on Bynum.  At some point, you have to take some risks -- if they pay off it's fabulous - if they don't, it's worth the gamble, IMO.  

Basically, I think the Payton, Fox and conditional #1 was the ONLY trade that Kupchak has made that was positive at this point.

I would also include in the worst trading Shaq for Odom, Butler and Grant.  Grant was washed up with a huge contract before he came.  Odom is overpaid and requires being the focal point of the offense to "fit in" and Butler (now I really liked Caron).  But trading Shaq for these players?  The Lakers should have gotten a LOT more in return!  And I really think they could have gotten more if they would have dealt with teams in the WC (and yes, I know the unwritten rule about not trading in your own conference -- but you REALLY need to do what is best for your team's future -- if you were worried about the present then don't even trade Shaq!).

[Joe Vancil]

For O'Conner:

I disagree with both choices.

The best move O'Conner made was signing Matt Harpring.  It revived Harpring's career, replaced Donyell Marshall, who we lost in free agency, and gave Utah a solid foundataion in terms of continuing in the same vein of play that we've always had under Sloan.  Without Harpring, I think a lot of our offense would have started to break down in Stockton/Malone's last year - forcing a change for the next season.

The worst move O'Conner made was the signing of Olden Polynice.  Polynice's signing did nothing to improve our center situation, and only worsened our interior defense.  Instead of "playing better from the bench," Ostertag declined, and Polynice effectively replaced Ostertag's stone hands with stone hands of his own.  Polynice thought too highly of himself, and actually believed he was an offensive threat.  Finally, he brought embarrassment to the Jazz organization with the police officer and spitting incidents.

I'd also have to call the draft pick of DeShawn Stevenson pretty ugly as well.

With Lopez, he never HURT the Jazz efforts.  He simply had bad injury problems and never did a lot to HELP the Jazz efforts.

 

[JoMal]

I saw that list ages ago and I still can't quite understand why they would list Geoff Petrie's worse move as trading Webber to the Sixers. Their point, I suppose, is that with that trade, the Kings lost its legitimate credibility for championship status.

Keeping Webber seemed to qualify the same way.

Last summer, Petrie signed Greg Ostertag to a two year, ten million (roughly) deal; Greg then proceeded to trip over something in the dark at his house and break his hand (hmmm???); he never got into NBA shape after that, and the season was a total waste. Then Petrie traded him back to Utah.

And Hoopshype lists the Webber deal as his worst?  

[westkoast]

What GM had the first pick the year MJ was drafted?

Ziggy I agree with your list except throw in Mitch Richmond and Dennis Rodman in the list of bad signings/moves.

[Reality]

What GM had the first pick the year MJ was drafted?

Ziggy I agree with your list except throw in Mitch Richmond and Dennis Rodman in the list of bad signings/moves.

Don't rub it into zig, Portland also could have had Dr J.

Besides Bowie to Portland, here are some real beauts...
http://www.realgm.com/src_feature/158/2005..._draft_history/

#1 overalls:
Candy OlawaKandy ahead of Mike Bibby (#2), Antawn Jamison (#4), Vince Carter (#5), Dirk Nowitzki (#9), Paul Pierce (#10), Rashard Lewis (#32)

Pervis Ellison ahead of Sean Elliott (#3), Glen Rice (#4), Tim Hardaway (#14), Shawn Kemp (#17), Vlade Divac (#26)

LaRue Martin – Portland Trail Blazers in 1972  Bob McAdoo (#2), Julius Erving (#12)

Larry Bird 1978 was selected 6th, altho that was a Red shark move when his brain was still sharp.

[westkoast]

What GM had the first pick the year MJ was drafted?

Ziggy I agree with your list except throw in Mitch Richmond and Dennis Rodman in the list of bad signings/moves.

Don't rub it into zig, Portland also could have had Dr J.

Besides Bowie to Portland, here are some real beauts...
http://www.realgm.com/src_feature/158/2005..._draft_history/

#1 overalls:
Candy OlawaKandy ahead of Mike Bibby (#2), Antawn Jamison (#4), Vince Carter (#5), Dirk Nowitzki (#9), Paul Pierce (#10), Rashard Lewis (#32)

Pervis Ellison ahead of Sean Elliott (#3), Glen Rice (#4), Tim Hardaway (#14), Shawn Kemp (#17), Vlade Divac (#26)

LaRue Martin – Portland Trail Blazers in 1972  Bob McAdoo (#2), Julius Erving (#12)

Larry Bird 1978 was selected 6th, altho that was a Red shark move when his brain was still sharp.

LOL

Didnt mean to rub it in, I really couldnt remember who had that first pick.

[ziggy]

What GM had the first pick the year MJ was drafted?

Ziggy I agree with your list except throw in Mitch Richmond and Dennis Rodman in the list of bad signings/moves.

Don't rub it into zig, Portland also could have had Dr J.

Besides Bowie to Portland, here are some real beauts...
http://www.realgm.com/src_feature/158/2005..._draft_history/

#1 overalls:
Candy OlawaKandy ahead of Mike Bibby (#2), Antawn Jamison (#4), Vince Carter (#5), Dirk Nowitzki (#9), Paul Pierce (#10), Rashard Lewis (#32)

Pervis Ellison ahead of Sean Elliott (#3), Glen Rice (#4), Tim Hardaway (#14), Shawn Kemp (#17), Vlade Divac (#26)

LaRue Martin – Portland Trail Blazers in 1972  Bob McAdoo (#2), Julius Erving (#12)

Larry Bird 1978 was selected 6th, altho that was a Red shark move when his brain was still sharp.

LOL

Didnt mean to rub it in, I really couldnt remember who had that first pick.

First pick was Houston, and they selected Olajuwan, Portland selected Bowie #2, and Chicago selected Jordan #3.  The Portland GM was Stu Inman, and the Player Personnel director was Bucky Buckwalter.  The same 2 guys that selected Drexler #17 the year before, Terry Porter #24 the next year, and Arvydas Sabonis with the last pick of the first round in 1986.