Major Props to detroit

[SPURSX3]

They have surpassed my expectations.  I admit I felt we could beat them in 5.  but these guys are the BEST team we have EVER faced in the finals.   I was hoping home cooking would help us but they came in and forced a game 7, Spurs are not very good at closing a series in 7 so i CAN admit these guys deserve to beat us.   I will say I have MORE respect for them because I felt the Lakers of last year were THE team of ALL teams to have ever gone to the finals, despite the squables they had between Kobe and Shaq, LA was ALWAYS the BAR when it came to teams to beat in our life.  MUCH RESPECT to the EAST and the PISTONS.   Chauncey is f'in BAD.  new he nwould be tough, I tink Pop should have had Bowen on him all night but hey thats the way it goes, this really changes my mind of the EASTERN conference and the way they play,  have to say the Pistons may even surpass the best Lakers squad when it comes to TEAM play.  I am still hoping we pull it out in game seven but i have to say I wont feel bad if we dont, Detroit deserve my respect more so then ANY other eastern team (new york, new jersey, miami)  If I have to eat crow, so be it.  this has been a HELL of a series, i feel sorry for those that are not watching, Games 5 and 6 WERE classics.  I still am proud of the fact that we are in the finals, the last 5 years have been the lakers and Spurs, but Detroit is proving they were NOT accidental Champions, and I can understand that, Phil Jackson infuriated us to the point that our goal was to prove him wrong.  Now Phil is only a memory, his greatness is gone, now we got a former Spurs coach showing he can get his team to play hard and focused.   I am hoping to win in game 7, but you can't take anything away from Detroit this game.  I told my son you have to respect the other team because they can always come back to win, and they did.  My pick for game seven is SA, no matter what.  Game 7 calls for me to be out with other Spurs fans, win or lose, at a pub.  I was hoping that Horry would put the dagger in the Pistons but they proved NOT to be any other team by coming back and being professional enough to win on our court.  I dont think the series is over, but game 7 is going to be one hell of a game.  Champion vs champion.  Go Spurs Go!!!!    :cheers:  

[Derek Bodner]

I never understood the lack of respect Detroit was getting, in here as well.  You hear Rick or Wow talk and they barely deserve to be on a YMCA floor.  Probably stems from the style of ball they play (or in Rick's case, the presence of a certain member of the organization).  I felt going into the playoffs that they were, at worst, the 2nd/3rd best team in hte nba.

[WayOutWest]

I never understood the lack of respect Detroit was getting, in here as well.  You hear Rick or Wow talk and they barely deserve to be on a YMCA floor.  Probably stems from the style of ball they play (or in Rick's case, the presence of a certain member of the organization).  I felt going into the playoffs that they were, at worst, the 2nd/3rd best team in hte nba.

It stemmed from the run they had last year, they faced teams that had key injuries durring the playoffs.  J Kidd, JO, Tinsley, Malone.

This year they got by Miami with Shaq and Wade hurt.

I'm with SpursX3 about the Pistons after game 6, they've really showed the heart of a true champion.

[spursfan101]

Props to Detroit tambien.  I'm not bummed at all, they gave a heckuva fight, they showed true heart, and over the last 4 games, the Spurs have really struggled even when they pulled out that milky win on Sunday.  Can SA win the series? Absolutely. It's my contention though (and I ticked off alot of my coworkers when I said this) that if a 7th game is forced, Detroit regains the momentum and will win the series. Duncan dosen't have the intestinal fortitude for a game of Thursdays magnitude. I expect him to hit the floor in diapers and to shoot free throws with a a pacifier in his mouth. B)  

[rickortreat]

NO, I don't respect Detroit becasue they are the dirtiest team in basketball, and the refs let them get away with murder.

Everytime Duncan tries to post up, Wallace grabs him and wrestles with him.  A DEFENDER IS NOT ALLOWED TO TOUCH AN OFFENSIVE PLAYER.  That's the rule, but they never call Ben Wallace for that.  What's up with that?  IT's Bullshit.
 :moon:  IMO the NBA is ruining the game by allowing this type of play.  Back in the 80's when the Celts and Lakers were doing their thing, Ben Wallace would have been ejected from games for his play.  The original bad boys in Detroit started this animal ball nonsence and it sucks.

This is not to say that Detroit didn't deserve to win last night. They didn't give up in spite of their poor shooting, and the Spurs never put them away.  In fact it was the Spurs who stopped scoring, and for a while there they were really swinging the ball around and working hard to get the open man a look.  Unfortunately, they stopped doing that, and their offence became disjointed.  Part of that was Detroit's dirty tricks,  but I place the onus on the Spurs for not continuing to work hard.

For all that Horry did in the last game, Genobli and Parker weren't even looking for him.  Duncan should have bitch slapped Ben Wallace and told the refs that "if Someone gets hurt, it's be your fault for not calling the game right."

There were times when the game was getting out of hand, and the Spurs were the team that backed down.  I belive basketball should be a game of finesse, but if the refs allow Animal ball, then so be it.  The Spurs can match them blow for blow and they have to if they want to win.  The logical conclusion is that the NBA want's physical violent play, so I would build a team with the most mean, angry conciousless assholes  and beat the living crap out of any team we faced in the playoffs.  Aside from Rip, Chanuncey and Prince, that's pretty much what Detroit is.

Also, is there anyone uglier than Tayshaun Prince?  He's a great player, and allways works to get to the right spot on the floor, but he's so ugly he should wear a mask like Rip.   :eek2:  

[spursfan101]

Detroit TOOK game 6, plain and simple. Spurs are playing catchup way to much. and finally...IS THERE ANY UGLIER TEAM THAN THE DETROIT PISTONS???   FUGLIEST ALL NBA TEAM MAYBE?? :puke:  

[SPURSX3]

F'ugly or not, they got the job done last night.

[JoMal]

No kidding.

And what, exactly, could the refs have done differently, rick? They called the Pistons for two technicals last night, rang them up for 26 fouls, compared to 18 by the Spurs, and sent the Spurs to the line 7 more times. Except for game 5, that has been how every game has gone.

The Pistons have been averaging 21 fouls a game for an average of 23 foul shots by the Spurs, while the Spurs have been fouling the Pistons an average of 20 times a game for 19 foul shots. Not that great a discrepancy, but clearly favoring the Spurs going to the line.

More importantly, where the hell do you get off complaining about fouls when Bruce Bowen plays for the Spurs? How many retinas has that idiot damaged swiping at players' faces. How many girly scratches has he left on the arms of opponents as he continuously lets his nails grow to maximize the damage he can do?

Frankly, watching Ben Wallace absolutely anihilate Horry and Duncan around the basket has been the best part of this series to watch, just because of what Bowen does. If Big Ben "accidently" perminently damages someone, just thank Bruce Bowen for his nails. And please, shut up about your poor Spurs finally getting a little comeuppance.  

[rickortreat]

They could have called a foul everytime there was one, and Wallace would have been out of the game with 6 fouls instead of finishing.  How about an ejection from the game for continued dirty play, maybe a technical or two for three seconds violations?  I know they allow zones in the NBA now, but having three or four player pack the lane on defense is bad, ugly basketball.

And they could have given a technical for unsportsmanlike conduct for the Pistons saying "who me!?" ,and raising their hands in their are like they didn't do anything, when it was abundantly clear that each and every one of them knew they were  doing something illegal that should have been called.  I loved R. Wallace crying that he didn't do anything when the tape showed he pushed Duncan in the back.  That would have been a technical right there.  Or Rip Hamilton complaining he got fouled, which he did, but after he had gone out of bounds and come back in under the basket.

Remember the old days when fouling someone was a bad thing, and the offending player would raise his hand?  The Pistons never foul anyone ever, as far as their concerned!  

And for your information, neither team is my team, and it doens't really matter to me who wins, except that I can't stand the idea of a thug team winning any NBA series.
The Spurs haven't been cocky at all, so where's the idea that they deserve a comeuppance come from?  They have the highest winning percentage of any NBA team over the past several years, over .700 but they appear to be pretty humble to me, a far cry from the arrogance of the Lakers!

As far as Bowen is concerned, he does do things I find questionable as well, but to suggest that he deliberately allows his nails to grow so he can scratch his opponenents is a bit much.  If he's really drawing blood with one of those scratches, I'd suspend him for a game. I'd also have the refs inspect his hands prior to the game and force him to trim them if their past the tips of his fingers.

[Derek Bodner]

And they could have given a technical for unsportsmanlike conduct for the Pistons saying "who me!?" ,and raising their hands in their are like they didn't do anything, when it was abundantly clear that each and every one of them knew they were doing something illegal that should have been called. I loved R. Wallace crying that he didn't do anything when the tape showed he pushed Duncan in the back. That would have been a technical right there. Or Rip Hamilton complaining he got fouled, which he did, but after he had gone out of bounds and come back in under the basket.

Remember the old days when fouling someone was a bad thing, and the offending player would raise his hand? The Pistons never foul anyone ever, as far as their concerned!

If you got T's for this stuff, Allen Iverson wouldn't finish 10 games a year.

[SPURSX3]

it was a good game, and detroit really played with heart and earned the win.  lets face it, these are the finals, you got to play tough, especially this deep in the series.  you can't take anything away from them for thier win.  Yes, they are F'ugly, but they won so tht's all that matters.

[JoMal]

Exactly. My point being that the teams that make the finals are never going to be pansies and you will see harder fouls then usual....and the refs not doing much about it. In a sense, they are rewarding the last team standing.

So to say the League is allowing the thuggery of the Pistons to go unchecked.....it just seems a bit naive this late in the game to finally start to realyze the the NBA is unfair. It has been for a decade, and it won't be going back to the way it was any time soon.

[rickortreat]

I've been demoning the decline of the league ever since I started posting.  The rules are changed to accomodate the lack of talent.  Things that were completly unnaceptable years ago are now commonplace.

I'm simply pointing out that the league could put out any rules and the teams and players would adapt. I gurantee you that Iveerson would stop all the childish whining and moaning the first time he was thrown out.  Some teams would loose out if the game was called the way it used to be, whereas others flourish under a less tolerant system.  

Detoit's preferred style is ugly and relatively unentertaining.  Compare it with the Showtime Lakers or even Jordan's Bulls and the quality of the games is clearly declining.

I remember when they first dissalowed hand-checking and made a big deal about it.  Ever player adjusted to it, and then somehow the officials forgot about it.  Now, instead of a gracefull skyhook, we get WWF wrestling in the post.  If you want to say, that's the way it is, live with it, I say ok, but they're loosing me as a fan.

I've been watching b-ball since the Chamberlain days when I was a kid.  The league has gotten worse and worse as it has grown and gotten more prosperous.  Rodman was a complete jerk towards the end of his career, acting like a moron.  Remember what he said about Bird?  Just another player!?

I want the league to clean itelf up, not drop it's standard to the lowest common denominator.  Is it really too much to ask of players making millions of dollars to actually learn how to play the game in a way that rewards fans with great play? Apparently it is, or Stern would make an effort to return the quality to the game.

I suppose you can't blame Detroit for developing a formula that works, but I'd rather watch Genobli penetrate and dish like the good old days than see Tim Duncan pushed all over the lane when trying to post up. Moses Malone was a very physical player in his day, but he was never dirty, would never grab another player with his hands and move him out of the lane.  

Kevin McHale and Charles Barkley had huge battles, but never once was either one of them going outisde the rules of the game.  And nothing they did could be characterized as dirty, just solid basketball.

[JoMal]

I've been watching b-ball since the Chamberlain days when I was a kid. The league has gotten worse and worse as it has grown and gotten more prosperous. Rodman was a complete jerk towards the end of his career, acting like a moron. Remember what he said about Bird? Just another player!?

Actually it was Isiah Thomas who said something like that about Bird and
Rodman just agreed with it.

Rick, what has been happening to the League is much more ingrained. Because of ESPN highlights and what the sports media likes to show regarding "big" plays in games, always focuses on the flashiest slam dunks, or the wild playground spins to the basket.

Not, in other words, the boring aspects of the game, like basic fundamentals.

Which means we have a generation of American kids, at least, who think the way to the NBA is to mimick these moves. Ballhandling and general playmaking is becoming secondary. That is why we are looking more and more for non-Americans to fill out NBA rosters, because the fundamentals are still being stressed elsewhere.

With the money being paid out, kids are demanding early entry into the moneygrubbing as soon as they get that high school diploma, and NBA teams have played along because they fear missing out on the next Garnett or Bryant or James. But NBA teams are not geared to train these kids for several years in the basic fundamentals so they actually can play the pro game. The latest CBA may have addressed this, but I get the feeling they only did because a gun was held to their heads.

It was way too much of the right thing to do for the NBA and the Union to have decided so quickly on the new CBA. They must have been coerced.

The bottom line, rick, is that you are totally correct. The current NBA product is a shadow of its former self, and the latest CBA is a clear indication the League and the Union are facing the loss of their golden goose if TV ratings are any indication.

[Joe Vancil]

Actually, you've got that backward, JoMal.  Rodman was the one who shot off his mouth - a rookie at the time.  Reporters asked Isiah what he thought of Rodman's statement, and he said he agreed with it.