Best record = title?

[rickortreat]

I thought the first Laker into showbusiness was Wilt in Conan the Barbarian, of course the link between sports stars and Advertizing and media endorsement took off a little later, but how many films did OJ appear in?

Worthy had a cameo appearance in Star Trek's next generation series.

Shaq himself went to LA, when he could have gone anywhere.  Shazzam!

Kobe could have been the NBA's poster child if it wasn't for his daliance in Colorado.  He cost himself a fortune in endorsements.

The next star the Lakers get will get plenty of local endorsements, and some National ones if he can stand out enough.  

It's not if they come there cheap, but if they want to come at all.  Compared with places like Seattle, Portland, Minnesota, Utah, Totonto and the like, LA is much more popular with the brothers.  There are some players who just won't play in Denver or Toronto, but who would rule out playing in LA?

Apart from MJ, there were a few NBA stars that got national advertising exposure.  Patrick Ewing with orange soda.  Charles Barkley with deoderant. All of this started in the 60's with Broadway Joe Namath and a popcorn popper, right in NYC.  The NBA is a natural since the players faces are seen and known nationally, far more so than a helmeted football player.  But the NBA's image has been tarnished lately, so instead of seeing Kobe or Shaq you see Donavan McNabb.



 

[Guest_Randy]

Reality, you continue to be such an idiot in your assumptions:  Here's the bottom line for ANY positive moves in the league:  it HAD to be a conspiracy!!!  Umm, if you actually THINK that the Lakers got Shaq because of the moves Stern made -- then why don't I hear you harping about the conspiracy to make TD a Spur?  I mean, the Spurs have two horrible injuries, end up barely making the lottery and then end up with the TD bonanza and THEN both players get healthy again!!!  If you want a conspiracy to talk about -- there's one for you!  

The fact is that Shaq wanted to come to LA because of two reasons:  1) he didn't like playing for Orlando and 2) he wanted to make movies (same reason Rick Fox came to LA).  However, let's remember that this is BEFORE the recent salary cap -- you aren't going to see players give up salary to come to LA.  We don't see players saying ANYTHING these days other than "show me the money" -- oh, by-the-way, who said that most recently?  Oh, yeah, it was Shaq who wanted a 3 year extension for $25 mill a year!!!

Jerry West was a GREAT assessor of talent and he was a great GM.  Anyone who doesn't think so has to contridict facts -- he has done a GREAT job of assessing talent:  James Worthy, Bryon Scott, Vlade Divac, Nick Van Exel, Eddie Jones, not to mention Kobe Bryant.  A lot of people thought Kobe was going to be good but it's also pretty obvious that Charlotte didn't think so -- the reason why they chose Kobe was because that's who the Lakers wanted and they wanted Vlade.  

Personally, I don't believe that Kupchak is anything other than a bad GM -- but Buss won't like seeing the Lakers in the cellar and frankly, based on the current contracts of the Lakers, the Lakers aren't going to get better until they can jettison the contracts of Brian Grant, Devean George, Medvendenko, Mihm and the rest of the underachievers.  Kobe is going to make sure that the Lakers don't get a high lottery pick and so that means that the ONLY way the Lakers are going to better themselves is through trades and free-agents.  The Lakers need to trade Lamar Odom but who is going to trade a legit big man for Odom?  Hmm, maybe the Bulls?  lol  

The Lakers have been the best in the league about rebuilding through the decades -- no other team is even close in that regard.  Will it happen again?  Only time will tell -- but I don't see it happening for a couple of years -- contracts alone tell me that isn't going to happen.  But look at it:  we've seen the Celtics come and go, the Sixers come and go, the Bulls come and go, the Jazz come and go, the Blazers come and go, the Knicks come and go, the Sonics come and go -- on and on and on.  I don't see any of those teams being reborn -- some show signs  (Sonics and Bulls) but who knows whether their management will allow that to continue or will they trade themselves back into mediocrity (I'm not convinced that the Sonics will continue to do as well next year).  

I can tell you one thing -- I have been a Laker fan for years and I'm not going to quit just because they are working through a rebuilding phase.  Sure, it would be a whole lot easier just to jump on the bandwagon of the best team presently in the league -- and when that team begins rebuilding, just jump on the next team coming down the road -- but, personally, I think I'll pass on that one.  I can admire teams like the Spurs, Phoenix and Seattle but I'll keep my purple and gold -- and any time it becomes a little discouraging, I just look at the rafters or pull out my old tapes of Magic, Worthy, Cooper, Kareem, etc.

[westkoast]

I thought the first Laker into showbusiness was Wilt in Conan the Barbarian, of course the link between sports stars and Advertizing and media endorsement took off a little later, but how many films did OJ appear in?

Worthy had a cameo appearance in Star Trek's next generation series.

Shaq himself went to LA, when he could have gone anywhere.  Shazzam!

Kobe could have been the NBA's poster child if it wasn't for his daliance in Colorado.  He cost himself a fortune in endorsements.

The next star the Lakers get will get plenty of local endorsements, and some National ones if he can stand out enough. 

It's not if they come there cheap, but if they want to come at all.  Compared with places like Seattle, Portland, Minnesota, Utah, Totonto and the like, LA is much more popular with the brothers.  There are some players who just won't play in Denver or Toronto, but who would rule out playing in LA?

Apart from MJ, there were a few NBA stars that got national advertising exposure.  Patrick Ewing with orange soda.  Charles Barkley with deoderant. All of this started in the 60's with Broadway Joe Namath and a popcorn popper, right in NYC.  The NBA is a natural since the players faces are seen and known nationally, far more so than a helmeted football player.  But the NBA's image has been tarnished lately, so instead of seeing Kobe or Shaq you see Donavan McNabb.

Not true tho Rick. .  What million dollar deals and contracts were the Lakers players getting inbetween the Lakers golden era and the Kobe/Shaq era?   Certainly not Van Exel, Eddie Jones, Elden, etc.  The Clippers are in LA, why dont big names want to go there?  If the Lakers did not have as much success as they had then they would be in the same league as the Clippers.  If LA was such a huge draw then why is it that the Clippers have never pulled in any huge names?

No one in LA is going to get big deals for years to come.  While at the same time guys from small markets like KG and Lebron are landing a bunch of commercials/deals worth megabucks.  Shaq in Orlando?  Same thing.  Penny was popular also.  Why?  Because they were winning.  Melo is in Denver and has huge deals.  

[Guest_Randy]

I thought the first Laker into showbusiness was Wilt in Conan the Barbarian, of course the link between sports stars and Advertizing and media endorsement took off a little later, but how many films did OJ appear in?

Worthy had a cameo appearance in Star Trek's next generation series.

Shaq himself went to LA, when he could have gone anywhere.  Shazzam!

Kobe could have been the NBA's poster child if it wasn't for his daliance in Colorado.  He cost himself a fortune in endorsements.

The next star the Lakers get will get plenty of local endorsements, and some National ones if he can stand out enough.  

It's not if they come there cheap, but if they want to come at all.  Compared with places like Seattle, Portland, Minnesota, Utah, Totonto and the like, LA is much more popular with the brothers.  There are some players who just won't play in Denver or Toronto, but who would rule out playing in LA?

Apart from MJ, there were a few NBA stars that got national advertising exposure.  Patrick Ewing with orange soda.  Charles Barkley with deoderant. All of this started in the 60's with Broadway Joe Namath and a popcorn popper, right in NYC.  The NBA is a natural since the players faces are seen and known nationally, far more so than a helmeted football player.  But the NBA's image has been tarnished lately, so instead of seeing Kobe or Shaq you see Donavan McNabb.

Rick,

Shaq and Rick Fox both liked LA because they wanted to act -- however, if it were JUST acting, NY might be just as good a draw these days.  

Actually, most people are forgetting that Jabbar had a cameo in one of Bruce Lee's movies -- I think THAT was the first movie (by-the-way, Lee also taught Jabbar for several years).

You mention Worthy's cameo in STNG -- that's pretty weak, Rick.  First, umm, just exactly who recognized the Klingon as Worthy to begin with?  You don't get a lot of "stardom" thrown at you when nobody even recognizes you.  Also, this cameo came at the END of Worthy's career -- the Lakers were in rebuilding mode at that point and Worthy was getting ready to retire.  He was a big fan of STNG and that's the reason he got the part -- he did it because he wanted too not to get him into movies or acting (James has always wanted to be a broadcaster after retiring).  

However, there are a NUMBER of NBA stars that could get appearances in television if they wanted to -- most don't want to.  

[Guest_Randy]

I thought the first Laker into showbusiness was Wilt in Conan the Barbarian, of course the link between sports stars and Advertizing and media endorsement took off a little later, but how many films did OJ appear in?

Worthy had a cameo appearance in Star Trek's next generation series.

Shaq himself went to LA, when he could have gone anywhere.  Shazzam!

Kobe could have been the NBA's poster child if it wasn't for his daliance in Colorado.  He cost himself a fortune in endorsements.

The next star the Lakers get will get plenty of local endorsements, and some National ones if he can stand out enough. 

It's not if they come there cheap, but if they want to come at all.  Compared with places like Seattle, Portland, Minnesota, Utah, Totonto and the like, LA is much more popular with the brothers.  There are some players who just won't play in Denver or Toronto, but who would rule out playing in LA?

Apart from MJ, there were a few NBA stars that got national advertising exposure.  Patrick Ewing with orange soda.  Charles Barkley with deoderant. All of this started in the 60's with Broadway Joe Namath and a popcorn popper, right in NYC.  The NBA is a natural since the players faces are seen and known nationally, far more so than a helmeted football player.  But the NBA's image has been tarnished lately, so instead of seeing Kobe or Shaq you see Donavan McNabb.

Not true tho Rick. .  What million dollar deals and contracts were the Lakers players getting inbetween the Lakers golden era and the Kobe/Shaq era?   Certainly not Van Exel, Eddie Jones, Elden, etc.  The Clippers are in LA, why dont big names want to go there?  If the Lakers did not have as much success as they had then they would be in the same league as the Clippers.  If LA was such a huge draw then why is it that the Clippers have never pulled in any huge names?

No one in LA is going to get big deals for years to come.  While at the same time guys from small markets like KG and Lebron are landing a bunch of commercials/deals worth megabucks.  Shaq in Orlando?  Same thing.  Penny was popular also.  Why?  Because they were winning.  Melo is in Denver and has huge deals.

wk, please don't start confusing Rick and JoMal with facts -- it's soooo easy to say that the Lakers have some unfair advantage being in LA rather than saying that LA has had success where their teams haven't.  So leave the Clippers out of that -- forget that they actually play in the same building -- forget that they are in the same city and have the same advantages as the Lakers geographically but yet no one feels the "draw" to come play for the Clippers.  We see talented players go to the Clippers ALL the time for less money -- we see free agents lining up to play in SoCal for the Clippers -- we see veteran free agents giving up millions of dollars to play for the Clippers and that geographically advantage is just WRONG!!!  Why can't everyone see that?

[rickortreat]

If the Clippers had a reputation for winning, players would want to go there too.  It's not just the location and the proximity to Hollywood, it's also the history of the Lakers in LA, starting with West, Goodrich, Baylor and Wilt.  

These days if your a big enough star they'll come to you, but it's much much easier in S.Cal and NYC.  

In Hollywood they'll take anyone with a name, in NYC you generally have to be able to act, snce you can't edit live performances.

Still Wilt and Shaq and Jabbar are the reasons the Lakers have all those titles.  None of them were from LA, Wilt was from Phila. Jabbar from NYC and Shaq from Louisianna.  They went to LA for the weather, to hob-nob with the stars, the lifestyle, the chicks, and the chance to make movies.  

Miami is becomming a media center as well, it's no accident when Shaq decided to leave LA he went to a top ten market in warm weather by the beach.  You know he wasn't going to go to Houston!
 

[westkoast]

If the Clippers had a reputation for winning, players would want to go there too.  It's not just the location and the proximity to Hollywood, it's also the history of the Lakers in LA, starting with West, Goodrich, Baylor and Wilt. 

These days if your a big enough star they'll come to you, but it's much much easier in S.Cal and NYC. 

In Hollywood they'll take anyone with a name, in NYC you generally have to be able to act, snce you can't edit live performances.

Still Wilt and Shaq and Jabbar are the reasons the Lakers have all those titles.  None of them were from LA, Wilt was from Phila. Jabbar from NYC and Shaq from Louisianna.  They went to LA for the weather, to hob-nob with the stars, the lifestyle, the chicks, and the chance to make movies. 

Miami is becomming a media center as well, it's no accident when Shaq decided to leave LA he went to a top ten market in warm weather by the beach.  You know he wasn't going to go to Houston!

Thanks for proving my point  

So we pretty much knocked down the ideas that its only about money and only about location for deals.  Like I was saying, this is a storied franchise and people want to play for a team that has a past like the Lakers.  Much like players are going to want to play with the Spurs in the future because they know they have had a solid team for years.  Players also came to LA because of they know Buss isnt a like his buddy that owns the Clippers, had respect for Jerry West and what he does, has legends like Magic involved, etc.  Of course opportunity and money plays into the mix but is not the sole reason.

The LA media is also very very bandwagon-y.  Much like the fair weather fans out here.  Ask Kobe.  One minute they are riding your jock strap....the next they are doing the exact opposite.  The media out here doesnt just support players because they are Lakers.  Ask Odom :lol:

Lifestyle and chicks?  Those follow NBA players wherever they go.  Not to mention these guys travel almost half the year to Boston, NYC, LA, Miami, etc etc etc.   So what if those players are not from the area???  Reggie Miller is from the area and he ran to Indiana of all places.

[JoMal]

wk, please don't start confusing Rick and JoMal with facts -- it's soooo easy to say that the Lakers have some unfair advantage being in LA rather than saying that LA has had success where their teams haven't.  So leave the Clippers out of that -- forget that they actually play in the same building -- forget that they are in the same city and have the same advantages as the Lakers geographically but yet no one feels the "draw" to come play for the Clippers.  We see talented players go to the Clippers ALL the time for less money -- we see free agents lining up to play in SoCal for the Clippers -- we see veteran free agents giving up millions of dollars to play for the Clippers and that geographically advantage is just WRONG!!!  Why can't everyone see that?

Well, Randy, since the proximity of all the star calibre movie producers and directors who routinely show up for Laker games (and not for Clipper games) doesn't put the woody in your Hollywood, then maybe you can ignore that part of the arguement that somehow equates being a genius Laker GM who never makes a bad trade or drafts poorly, and talk about how this genius GM then has to rely on that very attractive image to catch the attention of the great players others picked to compensate for those mistakes.

No? Nothing to say about how smart all those Laker drafts were in judging talent and not letting one of those pesky little gems slip through the LA cracks?

[westkoast]

wk, please don't start confusing Rick and JoMal with facts -- it's soooo easy to say that the Lakers have some unfair advantage being in LA rather than saying that LA has had success where their teams haven't.  So leave the Clippers out of that -- forget that they actually play in the same building -- forget that they are in the same city and have the same advantages as the Lakers geographically but yet no one feels the "draw" to come play for the Clippers.  We see talented players go to the Clippers ALL the time for less money -- we see free agents lining up to play in SoCal for the Clippers -- we see veteran free agents giving up millions of dollars to play for the Clippers and that geographically advantage is just WRONG!!!  Why can't everyone see that?

Well, Randy, since the proximity of all the star calibre movie producers and directors who routinely show up for Laker games (and not for Clipper games) doesn't put the woody in your Hollywood, then maybe you can ignore that part of the arguement that somehow equates being a genius Laker GM who never makes a bad trade or drafts poorly, and talk about how this genius GM then has to rely on that very attractive image to catch the attention of the great players others picked to compensate for those mistakes.

No? Nothing to say about how smart all those Laker drafts were in judging talent and not letting one of those pesky little gems slip through the LA cracks?

JoMaL...those directors and movie stars dont show up if the Lakers are not winning.  The star attendance at the games have dropped off HUGELY.  So much so that the only time you see stars outside of the die hard regulars is when their publicist got them floor seats so during a timeout or freethrows they can plug whatever they are doing.

You wont be seeing Chucky Atkins staring in XXX 2 alongside Ice Cube.  Although I think Odom was offered a part in Half Baked 2.

[Guest_Randy]

wk, please don't start confusing Rick and JoMal with facts -- it's soooo easy to say that the Lakers have some unfair advantage being in LA rather than saying that LA has had success where their teams haven't.  So leave the Clippers out of that -- forget that they actually play in the same building -- forget that they are in the same city and have the same advantages as the Lakers geographically but yet no one feels the "draw" to come play for the Clippers.  We see talented players go to the Clippers ALL the time for less money -- we see free agents lining up to play in SoCal for the Clippers -- we see veteran free agents giving up millions of dollars to play for the Clippers and that geographically advantage is just WRONG!!!  Why can't everyone see that?

Well, Randy, since the proximity of all the star calibre movie producers and directors who routinely show up for Laker games (and not for Clipper games) doesn't put the woody in your Hollywood, then maybe you can ignore that part of the arguement that somehow equates being a genius Laker GM who never makes a bad trade or drafts poorly, and talk about how this genius GM then has to rely on that very attractive image to catch the attention of the great players others picked to compensate for those mistakes.

No? Nothing to say about how smart all those Laker drafts were in judging talent and not letting one of those pesky little gems slip through the LA cracks?

Okay, I'm trying to follow your point but all the revisions are confusing, JoMal.

First, it wasn't the Lakers long-standing history that made players want to don the purple and gold but simply the geographical area of SoCal making it difficult for SacTown and other smaller markets to compete with, right?  SacTown and the poor Maloofs have no choice but simply throw money at players in order to get them to come to sour fruit capital of the world?  Oh, sorry, you grow a lot of nuts in the area too, don't you?

Then it's not just the locale since the Clips share the same building AND the same town as the Lakers.  So now it's the Hollywood actors, stars and directors that attend the Laker games?  Okay, so a player wants to come to play for the Lakers because he thinks that if he plays really well, he is going to be discovered and get to star in the sequel to, hmm, Superman Steel?  How about Kazaam 2?  I'm sure those movies inspire confidence in both players as well as movie directors everywhere!  

So, players think that because actors and directors come to Lakers games that they will automatically get offered a part in a movie or tv show?  If that's the case, I'd encourage you to stay away from the "Victoria Secret" runway shows -- they might start handing you lingerie!  

[rickortreat]

Like they'll have a better chance breaking into the movies if they're in San Antonio or Sactown!? Give me a frikin' break!

LA has glitz, and movie stars- lots of very shallow, selfish rich people.  It's a perfect playground for a basketball player.  No kid growing up dreams of being a Spur or a Hawk, they used to dream of being Magic or Mike, and they dream of playing where those guys played to the adoration of their fans.

Until Lebron wins, not too many kids are going to dream of going to Cleveland.  They wanted to be Kobe until the bad press.

It's different in a real place like Philadelphia- we know they're just entertainers, overpaid, selfish, generally incapable of holding a regular job.  We'll put up our hard-earned money if you put on a show, and give your all out there.  It's why we love Allen Iverson, he lives by what he does on the court- he makes it matter because he cares so much and wants to win.

If you cry crocodile tears like TO, crying about how he needs to provide for his familly, we'll stomp your lungs out!

[westkoast]

Like they'll have a better chance breaking into the movies if they're in San Antonio or Sactown!? Give me a frikin' break!

LA has glitz, and movie stars- lots of very shallow, selfish rich people.  It's a perfect playground for a basketball player.  No kid growing up dreams of being a Spur or a Hawk, they used to dream of being Magic or Mike, and they dream of playing where those guys played to the adoration of their fans.

 

So every basketball player wants to be a movie star now?  

And Uhh...no one wants to play for the team of the city they are from?  The winner of the dunk contest this year will disagree with you.  He even showed his Hawk love with his Nique-like dunk.

Marbury has stated he always wanted to play in NY because thats where  all his good friends are from/family in the tri-state.

Kobe would have been a sixer also.  That use to be his team.  He didnt specifically say he wanted to come to LA, he got picked up.

James on the other hand wanted to stay in near Akron for the same reason Marbury likes NY.  Would have went anywhere but lucked out getting to stay where he wanted.

Lamar Odom made a comment this year that he will always love NY to death, has family there (his cousin is actually a rapper by the name of Ali Vegas from Queens) and tries to spend as much time there as he could.  Sounds to me like he wouldnt mind to be there...maybe we can deal em :lol:

Baron Davis is a hometown guy and has said that the Lakers are his team and follows them to this day.





I wanted to be Mike Jordan when I was younger too but the Lakers were still always my team.  I got to watch them, could go see them, and read about them in the local newspaper.  I wasnt a bulls fan, I was a MJ fan.  Alot of players would like to play for the team they grew up watching as a young kid in love with basketball.  B

[WayOutWest]

Ah, but that is exactly my point as well. Paying Shaq the money isn't smart; it was necessary. So was paying Kobe his going rate. Where you are not making any sense is with how other teams have to compete with that and how the Lakers themselves acquired supporting talent at less money. Having Shaq meant the potential of winning a championship. HELLO??? Do you thing guys like Payton, Malone, Richmond, etc chose their future teams as free agents by picking the highest bidder for their talents? Was the fact that the media wasteland that is Los Angeles made them all hesitate before beating down the Laker doors to plead for a spot on the bench next to Shaq not a factor?

Payton and Malone are the only exceptions as I stated before.  The Lakers have had plenty of opportunnity to overpay for talent, the just simply don't.  Richmond was not much of a pickup, he really wasn't expected to make a difference.  Please name players that have come to L.A., besides Payton and Malone, to play for less money.  Shaq made a huge effort to get Malone and Payton to play for L.A., that's why he ended up leaving L.A., it wasn't because they finished first in the race to L.A.'s door.

And putting out large contracts to players like Webber is the ONLY way other teams can field any players to compete. The thing you simply are not getting, WOW, is that other teams HAVE to pay higher salaries for these players, AND FOR MORE OF THEM. They can't get by having just one upper echelon player, or two. They have to have someone in every slot. The Lakers don't have to overpay mediocre players when they have to turn superstars away.

Who did Jordan have besides Pippen who came close to the average NBA salary? By your logic, Krause is therefore the equal in genius of West.

Please name the superstars the Lakers had to turn away, please.

Krause was a horrible GM who made three very good draft picks out of a dozen.  He did a good job of getting the right talent around his superstar tandum, which by the way debunks your two superstar theory.  Teams that have dominated the NBA championships for the past 15 or so years have been won by teams with a dynamic duo.  MJ, Pippen and Grant were excellent picks.  Green, Lee, King, Sellers, Perdue, Fizer, Curry & Mihm are all horrible LOTTERY draft picks under Krause.  As the saying goes, even a broken clock is right twice a day.  I did have to look up Lee, but the rest are well known mistakes wipped out by the drafting of MJ.

Genius tags in today's NBA should NOT be reserved for GM's, including West, who work in bigger markets with more resources, with more activities for interested players, who have superstar players contacting THEM to play on their teams. It should NOT be applied to GM's who can simply ice out lesser markets to compete for free agents; or are always on the short list of superstars demanding a trade from other teams.

Again, name these superstars beating down L.A.'s door, they must have lost the Clippers phone number by the way.  Besides Payton and Malone, who Shaq recruited, name ones that have actually played for L.A. instead of using L.A. as a negotiating chip.
 

Genius GM status should be applied for the guys in San Antonio, who do not have those advantages, but still win championships. It should be reserved for guys in Sacramento, who have nothing to offer but money and the opportunity to get to face these marketing behemoths late in the playoffs, when for years THERE WAS NO ONE INTERESTED IN PLAYING THERE.

I've already stated SA is a team I admire as far as their GM is concerned.  I must have missed Sactown championship run, since that's the only thing that matters in the NBA.

Not just Manu, who everyone passed on until the Spurs selected him late in the second round with the 57th pick. The Lakers also passed on Kirilenko, who was picked right after the Lakers took George.

There's one.

How simple do you want it? Okay, here it is. Every GM has regrets. Since West took Worthy, how many second round players have been solid NBA players? Now, correct me if I am wrong, but some of those guys were picked after the Laker chose their first round guy, and I think some of them might have turned out pretty good.

For instance -

Do you think West, who was still in LA at the time, should have drafted Brad Miller back in 1998? Thirty genius GM's passed on him coming out of college, including West and believe me, anyone who drafted after at least #10 in the first round that year really blew it, didn't they? The Clippers wanted a center? Olowokandi was their guy, not some white stiff from Purdue.

BTW, how IS Sam Jacobson doing these days? As good as Corey Benjamin, taken right after him, or Nazi Mohammed, taken 29th. Where is that bum, Rashad Lewis, taken by the idiot GM of Seattle as the third pick of the second round that year? Oh, and as Jacobsen was that shooting guard coveted by West, it was a good thing he picked him instead of Cutino Mobley, who drifted all the way down to Houston at the 41st pick.

That's two.

More? Glad you asked –

Ben Wallace

I guess you don't know the whole story about Ben Wallace and how he got into the NBA.  I don't consider him a missed opportunity in the draft.

In 2000, the Laker faithful raved about Mark Madsen's unorthodox game. Najera's game was a much worse fit, I take it (38th by the Rockets). But with Kobe, you probably had no place for the guy the Bucks picked at 43, who....how did you put it, WOW? Never "ended up being worth something". Tell Michael Redd that.   

Hope I haven't been boring you, WOW.

I guess I missed ONE.

Now it is your turn to find who the Lakers DIDN'T draft all those West years who may have turned out better.

Been there done that two years ago when West left.  Spent some time comparring the Lakers record to the Suns.

Sam Jacobsen!!  :rofl:  :rofl:

Almost as funny as the Kings championship tradition.  Jacobsen was a waste of a pick, too bad the Lakers didn't have the 7th overall pick in the draft.  Could you imagine the possibilities with the 7th pick.  Pierce, Nowitski or Jason Williams...hmmmmm....wonder what L.A. would have done.  

Williams  :bash:  :drunk:  :puke:  

[JoMal]

WOW, are you seriously considering that Williams was a worse pick then Jacobsen?

Now who's drunk? :drunk:

And lest you forget, amongst all this, the Kings ended up with Mike Bibby after trading Williams for him.  :rofl:  :rofl:

Yeah, I know, in your mind, it would be as if the Lakers traded Jacobsen for Bryant. Who DID the Lakers trade Jacobsen for, anyway??? They didn't just release him for nothing, did they? Now, THAT would have really made it a wasted pick. My God!!! It couldn't have been that bad. Even West would come up with some solution to such a huge mistake.

BTW, isn't one of those horrible lottery picks made by Krause now a Laker starting center?? My, how the mighty have fallen. Oh, right. That is your 'point'.

The Lakers have had plenty of opportunnity to overpay for talent, the just simply don't.

Does the name Brian Grant ring a bell??

Again, name these superstars beating down L.A.'s door, they must have lost the Clippers phone number by the way. Besides Payton and Malone, who Shaq recruited, name ones that have actually played for L.A. instead of using L.A. as a negotiating chip.

"Despite his phenomenal success in Milwaukee, Abdul-Jabbar was unhappy due in part to the lack of people who shared his religious and cultural beliefs and wanted out. He requested that he be traded to either New York or Los Angeles, and Bucks General Manager Wayne Embry complied, sending Abdul-Jabbar to the Lakers in 1975 for Junior Bridgeman, Dave Meyers, Elmore Smith, and Brian Winters.

Chamberlain had retired two years earlier, a fact that helped explain the Lakers' 30-52 record and last-place finish in 1974-75. Abdul-Jabbar helped bring about a 10-game turnaround in his first season in Los Angeles. His contributions (27.7 ppg, 16.9 rpg) won him yet another NBA Most Valuable Player Award, his fourth in only seven years in the league."

"Chamberlain took his new role so seriously that he led the league in assists the next season. In 1967-68, he was also chosen to the All-NBA First Team for the seventh and final time and selected league MVP for the fourth and final time. After taking the Eastern Division that season, the Sixers were eliminated in the Conference Finals for the third time in four seasons by the Celtics. Soon after, Chamberlain was traded to the Lakers for Jerry Chambers, Archie Clark and Darrall Imhoff.

He spent his final five campaigns in Los Angeles and helped the Lakers to the NBA Finals four times in those five seasons. The most notable season was 1971-72, in which he scored only 14.8 points per game. But his contributions came in other forms. At age 35, he managed to grab 19.2 rebounds per contest and was selected to the NBA All-Defensive First Team."

WOW, do these two guys qualify?

And just how hard was it to trade those quality players away for the Lakers? How many All Star games did they jointly play in?

I must have missed Sactown championship run, since that's the only thing that matters in the NBA.

Then why can't you understand how hard it is for a small market like Sacramento to compete for players with New York and Los Angeles? And do NOT include the Clippers in this. We both know that ownership also plays into how attractive certain teams are to players. The Kings have great ownership, better then the Lakers, in fact. But Shaq isn't about to play for the Kings. Webber certainly was not interested in coming to Sacramento. But he always fantasized about playing in Los Angeles. He had some star girlfriend living there. Wanted to play with Shaq too, I believe.

San Antonio righeously should be admired for what they have accomplished. But for smaller markets, the mountain to a championship is a bit steeper then it is for the Chicago's and LA's. Which makes what goes on in New York such a joke. If you can at least have the appearance of stability, the players will come to you in those places. If you don't believe that, try living in one of those smaller markets for a while and see how this side of the NBA REAL life truly is. To even compete in this world, you have to pay a little more and for more players.

And WOW, I'll let you in on something that someone living in one of these megacities, like yourself, apparently can not fathom, not even guess at. Superstar players, once they reach that pinnacle, they often CAN and DO dictate to whom they get traded. You call it genius GM work. I call it answering the phone.

Almost as funny as the Kings championship tradition. Jacobsen was a waste of a pick, too bad the Lakers didn't have the 7th overall pick in the draft. Could you imagine the possibilities with the 7th pick. Pierce, Nowitski or Jason Williams...hmmmmm....wonder what L.A. would have done.

Glad you asked. Let's pick a random year. How's about 1993. That year, the Lakers picked 12th, so that should be a very good judge of what the talent pool from that point on would be like. George Lynch, remember him? Not a bad player, I think he now players for the Hornets, but .....well.... sort of like Fredo was compared to Michael Corleone compared to some others. Because who was drafted after him that the Lakers could have instead taken? Come to think of it, who did the Lakers draft THEMSELVES after they took George at #12?

Do you remember, WOW. Your own genius GM passed on him for Lynch instead.

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

Oh, but the list of others who were by-passed and selected elsewhere is still quite impressive that year. Sam Cassell (#24 by Houston), Corie Blount (#25 by Chicago), and Byron Russell (#18 of the second round by Utah).

No GM is immune to missing quality in the draft, WOW, even West.

[WayOutWest]

I don't know where you get the Jacobson and Williams comparisson.  The point was the Kings passing up Pierce and Dirk.  Keep in mind Jacobson was a late round pick, 25 or 26, so don't try and compare that pick with the blown 7th (LOTTERY).  Mike Bibby was an excellent salvage job by the Kings IMO.

I knew Brian Grant would come up.  Grant was smoozed by LA but his asking price was way too high.  Ironic we ended up with that guy and his contract, but that's Buss and Kupchack's doings, I don't even try defending the indefensable.

I don't understand how you put Chamberlin into the scenario as Kareem.  I still don't know how Kareem, a native New Yorker, ended up a Laker, my guess is Bruin pride.  

Lynch?  Are you kidding, I'd still pick him over those guys.  If it wasn't for all the money the Lakers had to pay Shaq he'd still be a Laker.  L.A. loves Tar Heels. By the way who had the 7th (LOTTERY) pick that year?  As far a Nick the Quick was concerned, nobody wanted the guy because of the legal problems he was having. I think he beat up his girlfriend or something.