Congrads Kings Fans

[Randy]

Congrats to the Kings -- they executed down the stretch and the Lakers quit going inside to Shaq.  No excuses -- the Kings beat the Lakers without two starters and one of their most important bench players -- not a good sign for the Lakers.  The Lakers have got to start focusing on defense -- too many open shots behind and off screens.

[Laker Fan]

In reply to your thoughts MSC, I couldn't agree more, which is exactly why Sacramento, for all of its scoring prowess is basically in the same boat, as is Dallas.

The difference is, The Lakers are still middle of the pack without Malone, and when he was playing, they were climbing in their defensive stats every week, when he went down, they leveled off and have been there ever since.

Malone brings a huge rebounding edge the Lakers, and was on fire on the glass before he went down, plus his defensive presence and his energy and leadership have serious impact, he is expected back by at least March 8 in Utah and to me, he had already adjusted to the triangle fairly well before he went down, possibly because he has faced it both from LA and Chicago for years. Regardless, LA's problem is not offense, Shaq's freethrow % notwithstanding, it is no frontcourt strongside help on defense, and even if Malone is not an offensive factor when he returns, he will be huge for LA on the other end of the court.

LA is not in the kind of trouble people seem to think. With all the injuries, and they have had more than any other team, they are still playing .643 ball and they have not fielded their full starting lineup virtually all year long and in fact, sent only Payton into battle for quite a long stretch, and are still right there. The are no question not as deep as Sacramento (no one is) but they are better defensively than the Kings and Dallas and not that far behind Minnesota, WITHOUT a HUGE key to their defense, when he comes back, I expect this to change dramatically.

But then, what do I know.

[WayOutWest]

he is expected back by at least March 8 in Utah

Somebody is feeding you bad info, the BEST MOST OPTIMISTIC date for his return would be March 8th against Utah.  It's probably going to be mid to late March BUT knowing Malone he could blow away all expectations and be back earlier.

[msc]

In reply to your thoughts MSC, I couldn't agree more, which is exactly why Sacramento, for all of its scoring prowess is basically in the same boat, as is Dallas.

The difference is, The Lakers are still middle of the pack without Malone, and when he was playing, they were climbing in their defensive stats every week, when he went down, they leveled off and have been there ever since.

Malone brings a huge rebounding edge the Lakers, and was on fire on the glass before he went down, plus his defensive presence and his energy and leadership have serious impact, he is expected back by at least March 8 in Utah and to me, he had already adjusted to the triangle fairly well before he went down, possibly because he has faced it both from LA and Chicago for years. Regardless, LA's problem is not offense, Shaq's freethrow % notwithstanding, it is no frontcourt strongside help on defense, and even if Malone is not an offensive factor when he returns, he will be huge for LA on the other end of the court.

LA is not in the kind of trouble people seem to think. With all the injuries, and they have had more than any other team, they are still playing .643 ball and they have not fielded their full starting lineup virtually all year long and in fact, sent only Payton into battle for quite a long stretch, and are still right there. The are no question not as deep as Sacramento (no one is) but they are better defensively than the Kings and Dallas and not that far behind Minnesota, WITHOUT a HUGE key to their defense, when he comes back, I expect this to change dramatically.

But then, what do I know.

Dan, I agree re: the injuries and the presence of Malone being a huge factor.  Transition D, rotation/help D, and perimeter D have been atrocious virtually all season, with the exception of one stretch during the 18-3 start.  What is absolutely killing me is the horrendous perimeter D.  With Kobe and Gary, I was convinced the Lakers would have THE best defensive guard tandem in the league this year.  Not only has it not been the case, but they are nowhere near the top.  Do you think this is because of Kobe's injuries or his mind being elsewhere?  Or has Gary just lost a step toward the end of his career?  I don't get it.  I know our frontcourt D and rebounding will improve dramatically with the return of Malone, but with Kobe, Gary and Shaq out there, they SHOULD still have a very formidable defense ..... but they don't.  It's embarrassing.

 

[Laker Fan]

It is embarrassing, especially given the hype surrounding LA coming into this season, but I think we can take solace in the fact that they have played only 20 games as a complete unit all year long and less than that with even just 3 starters in the lineup and are still in the top 4 going into the stretch.

As far as the guards are concerned, Kobe has these flashes of briliance and other times it looks like his mind is a million miles away, it's the idiots own fault but it sure has impacted his game, and the Lakers fortunes. Payton has slowed a step defensively but his court vision and passing are still right there so you still have to be happy it is him and not Fisher directing traffic.

I would have loved the win, and indeed, they should have won that game, but I am still optimistic, they lost by 2 after having their legs run clean off by 2 running teams on consecutive nights. This is not to take anything away from Sacramento, they are playing fantastic ball right now, but they took advantage of a tired team and Peja was just flat unconscious last night. WOW is right, if they had shut down Bibby, this game was in the bag, and they have more than enough talent to shut biby down, slow rotation out of the paint was glaringly obvious. I still have a hard time with Shaq not hitting freethrows, and his "I hit them when it counts" is a bunch of hooie, they ALWAYS count.

[Randy]

In reply to your thoughts MSC, I couldn't agree more, which is exactly why Sacramento, for all of its scoring prowess is basically in the same boat, as is Dallas.

The difference is, The Lakers are still middle of the pack without Malone, and when he was playing, they were climbing in their defensive stats every week, when he went down, they leveled off and have been there ever since.

Malone brings a huge rebounding edge the Lakers, and was on fire on the glass before he went down, plus his defensive presence and his energy and leadership have serious impact, he is expected back by at least March 8 in Utah and to me, he had already adjusted to the triangle fairly well before he went down, possibly because he has faced it both from LA and Chicago for years. Regardless, LA's problem is not offense, Shaq's freethrow % notwithstanding, it is no frontcourt strongside help on defense, and even if Malone is not an offensive factor when he returns, he will be huge for LA on the other end of the court.

LA is not in the kind of trouble people seem to think. With all the injuries, and they have had more than any other team, they are still playing .643 ball and they have not fielded their full starting lineup virtually all year long and in fact, sent only Payton into battle for quite a long stretch, and are still right there. The are no question not as deep as Sacramento (no one is) but they are better defensively than the Kings and Dallas and not that far behind Minnesota, WITHOUT a HUGE key to their defense, when he comes back, I expect this to change dramatically.

But then, what do I know.

Dan, I agree re: the injuries and the presence of Malone being a huge factor.  Transition D, rotation/help D, and perimeter D have been atrocious virtually all season, with the exception of one stretch during the 18-3 start.  What is absolutely killing me is the horrendous perimeter D.  With Kobe and Gary, I was convinced the Lakers would have THE best defensive guard tandem in the league this year.  Not only has it not been the case, but they are nowhere near the top.  Do you think this is because of Kobe's injuries or his mind being elsewhere?  Or has Gary just lost a step toward the end of his career?  I don't get it.  I know our frontcourt D and rebounding will improve dramatically with the return of Malone, but with Kobe, Gary and Shaq out there, they SHOULD still have a very formidable defense ..... but they don't.  It's embarrassing.

IMO, this is because of lack of playing time together and I don't think that PJ has taken this team by the reins yet defensively and insisted on team defense.  I think that the Lakers are going to struggle with Fish as a defensive stopper -- he once was but it's obvious that the two operations have killed that ability.  GP isn't the defender he once was but the Lakers just need to keep the players in front of them and it's Shaq's job to stop penetration.  It's just so obvious, IMO, that they are playing man-to-man defense and not team defense -- however, it's about time for PJ to step in and show the team (and the world) that he is once against the brilliant savior of the NBA (boy do I hate his way of doing things).  The Lakers SHOULD be a better defensive team than last year -- to date they haven't show that (except in the short run before injuries).  I do believe they will get it together -- and I think that Malone will help them (who is going to tell Malone "no?").

[WayOutWest]

Moreso than the back-to-back game and the poor defense I think the loss can be attributed to Shaq having to split time between playing b-ball and his role in the upcomming moving being filmed at Staples durring the game.  If Uma Thurman could have got her lines right the first 3 times Shaq would have been able to log more minutes in the game instead of playing his part in the sequel to Kill Bill.

Does that bother anyone that they were filming a movie durring an important game like that?

[msc]

Moreso than the back-to-back game and the poor defense I think the loss can be attributed to Shaq having to split time between playing b-ball and his role in the upcomming moving being filmed at Staples durring the game.  If Uma Thurman could have got her lines right the first 3 times Shaq would have been able to log more minutes in the game instead of playing his part in the sequel to Kill Bill.

Does that bother anyone that they were filming a movie durring an important game like that?

WOW, I'm glad you said something, that bugged the !@#$ out of me!  I don't think any of the players were in it, and I'm pretty sure it was for the sequel to Get Shorty, but the point being it was friggin' annoying.  If they insist on filming at Staples during a game, how about during the Orlando game, or Miami ... WTF?  

The fourth time they made the walk through the building from one side to the other I considered dumping my beer on Travolta, but opted not to because that would have been alcohol abuse    

[Guest_JoMal]

I have read through all of these posts, where Laker fans have lamented the failings of their heroes in losing a close game at home to one of their chief rivals....especially when not a single one of them, nor any of the Lakers, nor the TNT studio 'analysis', picked the shorthanded Kings to have a ghost of a chance in winning this game. THAT must be what is totally frustrating; that the Lakers had a weakened Kings team at home and with close to their full allottment of players available. And the one who wasn't, Malone, plays the same position where not one, but TWO Kings players were going to be absent - Power Forward.

What the heck happened? With all the self-evaluation going on as to what the Lakers failed to do, maybe you should be focusing on what the Kings did instead? While the Kings do not play the same caliber defense as the Lakers, they play the Lakers very well, especially Shag. Vlade routinely gets Shaq to points on the court where he does not want to be on offense. With the Lakers on defense, Divac lures him away from where he should be, thereby creating passing possibilities to cutters for layups. You might have noticed that Christie in particular must of have four dunks last night. The Kings are also the best team in the League on the outlet pass, and they caught the Lakers several times napping in transition.

I are all aware of how (not so) well the Lakers played the pick and roll. The Kings kept doing it because they kept scoring out of it. The Kings dictated...the Laker floundered trying to defend it until the Kings took the lead and kept it.

Many have made a big deal out of the Kings relying so much on their outside shooting, and the announcers kept saying the Kings won't win if that trend continued. Who did they think they were watching, the Raptors? Without their two big men, the Kings did not have much in the way of choices - except the choice available to them was their strongsuit - outside shooting off the pick and roll. Why would TNT put announcers on this game who don't understand where certain teams get their points? Besides, Vlade kept hitting cutters to the basket for easy layups. I believe that also qualifies for an alternative to outside shooting.

The next time the Lakers and Kings meet, the high pick and roll will just be one of several offensive weapons available to the Kings, not just the main one. Sacramento has been improving on their style of play every year, and from what I have seen, this is the best it has been, with Peja coming into his own.

Defensively, the Kings are one of the few teams that actually can make Shaq less effective then he wants to be. Kobe certainly helped that with his own ballhogging, but even so, Divac kept Shaq at spots on the court he did not want to be.

Webber's return should improve the King's defense as well. They hardly need his scoring, but if Webber can prevent even half of the easy offensive rebounds the Kings give up, they can stop some of those second chance points that kept the Lakers in the game last night, for instance, and make the King's defense look much better with that alone.  

[Randy]

I have read through all of these posts, where Laker fans have lamented the failings of their heroes in losing a close game at home to one of their chief rivals....especially when not a single one of them, nor any of the Lakers, nor the TNT studio 'analysis', picked the shorthanded Kings to have a ghost of a chance in winning this game. THAT must be what is totally frustrating; that the Lakers had a weakened Kings team at home and with close to their full allottment of players available. And the one who wasn't, Malone, plays the same position where not one, but TWO Kings players were going to be absent - Power Forward.

What the heck happened? With all the self-evaluation going on as to what the Lakers failed to do, maybe you should be focusing on what the Kings did instead? While the Kings do not play the same caliber defense as the Lakers, they play the Lakers very well, especially Shag. Vlade routinely gets Shaq to points on the court where he does not want to be on offense. With the Lakers on defense, Divac lures him away from where he should be, thereby creating passing possibilities to cutters for layups. You might have noticed that Christie in particular must of have four dunks last night. The Kings are also the best team in the League on the outlet pass, and they caught the Lakers several times napping in transition.

I are all aware of how (not so) well the Lakers played the pick and roll. The Kings kept doing it because they kept scoring out of it. The Kings dictated...the Laker floundered trying to defend it until the Kings took the lead and kept it.

Many have made a big deal out of the Kings relying so much on their outside shooting, and the announcers kept saying the Kings won't win if that trend continued. Who did they think they were watching, the Raptors? Without their two big men, the Kings did not have much in the way of choices - except the choice available to them was their strongsuit - outside shooting off the pick and roll. Why would TNT put announcers on this game who don't understand where certain teams get their points? Besides, Vlade kept hitting cutters to the basket for easy layups. I believe that also qualifies for an alternative to outside shooting.

The next time the Lakers and Kings meet, the high pick and roll will just be one of several offensive weapons available to the Kings, not just the main one. Sacramento has been improving on their style of play every year, and from what I have seen, this is the best it has been, with Peja coming into his own.

Defensively, the Kings are one of the few teams that actually can make Shaq less effective then he wants to be. Kobe certainly helped that with his own ballhogging, but even so, Divac kept Shaq at spots on the court he did not want to be.

Webber's return should improve the King's defense as well. They hardly need his scoring, but if Webber can prevent even half of the easy offensive rebounds the Kings give up, they can stop some of those second chance points that kept the Lakers in the game last night, for instance, and make the King's defense look much better with that alone.

I know I'll be happy when CWebb gets back -- I like the idea of him holding the rock in his hands and taking shots away from Peja and Bibby!  Who would I rather have shooting from the outside?  Peja or Webber?   :lol:

Webber's defense has never scared anyone.  Webber will help the Kings rebounding but that will be negated by his negative presence on the offensive end.  He proves it year-after-year-after-year so I don't know why anyone is surprised.

And, by-the-way, if Peja and/or Bibby shot the 3 as well as they did last night all year they would both be leading in the 3 point percentage in the league -- Peja isn't going to shoot 63% every night and Bibby isn't going to shoot 50% from the arch either.  NOBODY has more respect for Peja as a shooter than I do but he ISN'T going to shoot that well every night.  The announcers kept saying this because they both were on fire -- Peja, even as the best shooter in the league, was shooting ABOVE his ability.

[Reality]

The fourth time they made the walk through the building from one side to the other I considered dumping my beer on Travolta, but opted not to because that would have been alcohol abuse  

 

 :lol:  :lol:

 

[JoMal]

Webber's defense has never scared anyone. Webber will help the Kings rebounding but that will be negated by his negative presence on the offensive end. He proves it year-after-year-after-year so I don't know why anyone is surprised.

Randy, your strange desires aside, why on earth do you think Webber's return will have any affect on Peja and Bibby's shooting? Webber's 24 and 10 per night is hardly a step down for the Kings and is hardly a negative presence on offense. I know for a fact anyone in LA would kill for a power forward of Webber's ilk even breathing the air in Staples as a Laker. He also has beaten the Lakers in the past with his play, so if he does not scare you, it seems fitting that you would think his return would weaken the Kings instead of making them even more formitable.  

And, by-the-way, if Peja and/or Bibby shot the 3 as well as they did last night all year they would both be leading in the 3 point percentage in the league -- Peja isn't going to shoot 63% every night and Bibby isn't going to shoot 50% from the arch either. NOBODY has more respect for Peja as a shooter than I do but he ISN'T going to shoot that well every night. The announcers kept saying this because they both were on fire -- Peja, even as the best shooter in the league, was shooting ABOVE his ability.

BTW, Peja is second in the League and Bibby is 13th in 3-point shooting percentage. While they clearly shot better then their seasonal average, those ARE averages, meaning they both have had similar games against other opponents this year. I see them play frequently, and if either gets into a hot streak, it is lights out. What made the Laker game unique is that they both were hot. That usually does not happen.

[Randy]

Randy, your strange desires aside, why on earth do you think Webber's return will have any affect on Peja and Bibby's shooting? Webber's 24 and 10 per night is hardly a step down for the Kings and is hardly a negative presence on offense. I know for a fact anyone in LA would kill for a power forward of Webber's ilk even breathing the air in Staples as a Laker. He also has beaten the Lakers in the past with his play, so if he does not scare you, it seems fitting that you would think his return would weaken the Kings instead of making them even more formitable.

Umm, here is why Webber's return will have an effect of their shooting, they actually have to have the ball in order to shoot.  It's not that hard a concept to imagine.  And I'm trying to remember the last time that Webber "beat the Lakers with his play" -- it wasn't last year, it wasn't the year before that or the year before that -- at least when it counted.  

[JoMal]

He certainly did not lose any of those games because of his play - any less then any of the other Kings were at fault. He HAS won a game or two against the Lakers since he has been in Sacramento - one of which was a last second fadeaway jumper. Remember? That shot that everyone hates to see Chris take because he only makes it half the time? :lol:

Umm, here is why Webber's return will have an effect of their shooting, they actually have to have the ball in order to shoot.

Randy, Chris Webber is considered the best passing forward in the NBA today. Not Garnett, not Duncan, not Jermaine O'Neal, not ever teammate Brad Miller - but Webber. He has averaged almost 5 assists per game in the five seasons he has played in Sacramento. This awesome offense that the Kings are showing this year? It was designed with the passing abilities of Chris Webber in mind. In that Bibby and Peja have blossomed in it this year might mean just that Chris assist average will go up.

What sets Webber apart from other power forwards is not his shooting or his rebounding, it is his hands, considered the softest in the League at his position. His passes make him the elite player he is, but he also catches the passes effectively.

If you actually think that Webber will be taking away points from Peja or Bibby because he is shooting the ball instead, remember too that averaging 24 points a game probably means he is MAKING most of the shots he takes, including that hated jumper. Both Peja and C-Webb shoot at about 48% annually with the Kings, so why shouldn't Chris shoot the ball as often? He makes the shots. Bibby only shoots around 45% - Chris shoots better then Mike, so he has earned the right.

As for who on the Kings beats the Lakers, it hardly matters with the Kings style of offense, which swings the ball around to the open shooter. The Lakers, as do most other teams, for some reason fear Chris jumper or seeing him with the ball late in games, so he often gets double teamed. You want to know how Chris beats the Lakers? He passes to that shooter left wide open for the shot attempt.

What is it with the Lakers in that they just can't stand the fact that the Kings beat them using Bibby one night, Peja another, or Webber? We don't have a "Kobeholic" on our team, where you positively, absolutely know the one player who will take that last shot every time. The Kings let the open shooter take the shot, or simply the player with the hot hand. While the Lakers bunch up on Chris, he is looking for Peja cutting to the basket because no Laker will be on him. Funny how successful that play is. Every time.

[Randy]

If you actually think that Webber will be taking away points from Peja or Bibby because he is shooting the ball instead, remember too that averaging 24 points a game probably means he is MAKING most of the shots he takes, including that hated jumper. Both Peja and C-Webb shoot at about 48% annually with the Kings, so why shouldn't Chris shoot the ball as often? He makes the shots. Bibby only shoots around 45% - Chris shoots better then Mike, so he has earned the right.

Umm, if either of the players were making MOST of their shots, as you state, they would have to be shooting better than 50%, isn't that correct?  As for CWebb, you miss how many of his are dunks compared to how many dunks Peja gets -- anyone who thinks that CWebb is as good a shooter as Peja is nuts.  I certainly hope that Adelmann thinks the same way you do.  I would rather see CWebb shooting that Peja any day.