What I believe is that Shaq was not motivated in LA primarily because of Kobe's attitude, whatever it was. What I believe is that his own lack of fitness was a result of him not liking the attention Kobe got from management instead of what he was doing. I think we agree on that one. The whole point being that, as you observed, Shaq did not care for Kobe.
But this quote by you,
Instead of helping him out realizing that 'this kid is 18 and will need some guidance'. He does the opposite and treats him badly, talks bad about him to teammates, and is an asshole to him. Any Laker fan can tell you Shaq got real jealous because of the media covering the new kid and not giving Shaq all the attention he wanted.
does not sound altogether true. The main reason? From all you and I have heard about their personal issues, one of the main problems was that Kobe never listened to anyone – then or now. Knowing that, isn't it much more likely that O'Neal
DID approach Kobe about giving guidance or whatever and Kobe told Shaq to mind his own business? That would have certainly lead to O'Neal's current attitude towards Kobe that has been evident from the beginning, as you pointed out. I am sure any Laker fan can also tell you that Kobe's 'me' attitude was evident from the beginning and maybe Shaq thought he should have been given his props from the new kid, because that also sounds about right. What I am telling you is that I side with O'Neal on that one – he deserved a little bit of Kobe's respect, and Kobe should have been polite and listened to him. It looks now like that would have been enough to at least get off on the right foot.
Oh, I understand how Shaq benefited by having someone else on the team to take some of the load off, but
….that it took BOTH to get them to dominate the league
is where I completely differ from you. Kobe benefited much more having Shaq on his team then Shaq benefited having Kobe. As I stated, I could see plenty of quality secondary players in the NBA who could have filled Bryant's role in those years. Nearly all of them would have been better teammates then Kobe, better listeners then Kobe, less isolated then Kobe, and willing to defer to the greater force of nature then Kobe did.
That Kobe often took over games is not a plus factor in his favor, by the way, even if he won some of those games. It was an indication that he wants the same recognition of greatness bestowed on Michael Jordan. Forget Shaq's attitude about his own self-worth, Kobe was way ahead of him. Kobe is running his personal MJ class way too often and not quite measuring up. His me-first game is being exposed more now that Shaq is gone. But his handling of all the off-court problems is where he never will measure up to Jordan, who had plenty of things going on in his life as a pro. But MJ was given a lifeline often by the media and others. Kobe is floundering, exposed and humiliated. It goes back to his own isolation. It is not good and he has no hope of recovering from it, not while he still is in Los Angeles.
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"being the hero everytime" And this is where your bias comes in and keeps you from being able to argue your point without people rolling their eyes at some of the things you are posting. I believe it was Kobe's - "non-selfish' - pass to Shaq that got the Lakers past the Blazers and into the finals against the Pacers. Kobe had an open shot but chose to go for the iffy alley oop to Shaq who had someone right there.
Umm, WK, - how do I put this delicately. I think you need to think about how that sounds with the "non-selfish" wording there. You see, it is NOT a non-selfish pass. It is simply a pass. That you included the "non-selfish" part? It makes it sound like you have to defend Kobe's game against him looking selfish, which is his image, and that image was the first thing I thought about after seeing your wording.
And yeah, I did roll my eyes when I read that because I know that could not have been what you meant to imply, but that is how we evildoers who endure those of you who find it necessary to defend Kobe against such accusations understood it. Apparently you missed the memo about not adding to the imagery.
He is THAT GUY. Who else on the Lakers is THAT GUY? If he doesnt think he needs help from his teammates why are his assists up this year even tho the team shooting pct is lower? Why is he one of the league leaders in triple doubles and has 40% more assists than last year? Shaq isnt with Kobe now and hes putting up great numbers. So how does this fit your logic JoMaL? Shouldnt Kobe not be playing as well now since Shaq is gone? Was Wade considered equal to James or Anthony? Not by the media. Use the board search feature...I believe *I* said in a thread on this board that he played better ball than both LAST YEAR and should have got the ROY. Wade is still playing his style of basketball but has matured, got larger, and knows the game better. Does he benefit from Shaq? Yes. What about when Shaq's on the bench? He still plays VERY WELL.
As the implication goes, there is nothing quite like defending the stats of a ballhog.
I read an article today, doing some research I might add, and found a website that is completely stat oriented. It also does umpteen polls on various things. In one of their preseason polls, they had predicted that Kobe would win the MVP this year, after he leads the Lakers into the playoffs and proving to a disbelieving world that he actually could do it alone. It went on to declare the biggest failure in the race would be Shaq, as he bums out in Miami with a bunch of no-names. A more recent article on the same webpage provided a poll on who should win the award now (it's Shaq, BTW), and who else might win it, like Nash or Stoudamire. And it talked about who is the LEAST deserving MVP candidate. Yeah, I am afraid they gave that honor to your guy. They came out and admitted they had misjudged what Bryant would be able to do. He lost out mainly on being a bad teammate, of all things. Personally, I thought it was a low blow after the preseason declaration. That was hitting below the belt.
But this stuff certainly fits with my logic
had no business being on the all-star team as a starter? LOL. Again with the bias. T-Mac did but Kobe didnt? The guy who was averaging 28 points, almost 7 rebounds and 7 assists shouldnt have got a starting spotÂ
No, he shouldn't.
I always thought the guys who provided the best impact on their teams (positive, not negative) should be starters on the all star team. Nash and Bibby over Bryant and McGrady, for instance. Both are point guards, you say? So what, McGrady and Bryant are both shooting guards. So let's just pick one of each. I pick McGrady over Bryant, as he seems to find more use out of his teammates, and Nash over Bibby.
JoMaL...yes teams gear what they are doing around Shaq or decide to stop everyone else but Shaq. When teams play Miami they focus in on Wade too....and this may be REALLY hard for you to believe but when Shaq hits the bench or is having an off game coaches adjust their gameplan accordingly. I know, imagine an NBA coach deciding that Wade needs to get more attention because hes about to drop 45 and Shaq is missing chip shots and freethrows.
Westkoast, this is hardly worth arguing, you are so wrong on this. But here it goes. If Shaq gets hurt, or never plays for the Heat, Wade would be mentioned today as a great guard playing on a really lousy lottery team.
I believe that description applies accurately to Kobe Bryant this year.
