Webber having trouble adjusting???

[JoMal]

Webber missed 10 of his first 11 shots, didn't score until 4:08 remained in the first half and finished 4-of-18 with eight rebounds. He even heard a few boos from Philly fans.

Maybe it just is not his style of basketball. Maybe Chris just needs time to find where he fits into the scheme of things. Maybe the national media suggesting that Webber was the missing link for the Sixers to compete in the East was misconstrued by the Philadelphia faithful as a guarantee that his presence on the team was all that was needed for them to match up with Miami, Detroit, and Indiana.

Or.....maybe this is what Webber CAN contribute at this point of his career. The man can no longer elevate, so he is NOT going to be a low post threat any time soon. His shot will easily be blocked if he tries, or he will often have that off-hand shove of his called as an offensive foul, which it is.

His confort zone shot, that one he loves to take from about 12 to 15 feet, also is being denied him because of the way he gets the ball from Iverson. He has been forced to shoot from a little further away and his accuracy may not adjust to that.

When all I was hearing from the national media about this trade was that King ripped off the Kings, and what was Petrie thinking, I had to say "HUH"

Petrie rips off other teams, it does not happen the other way around. His track record speaks for itself, so why would anyone mistake this trade as anything different. It had become apparent in Sacramento that, while Chris has worked like a monster to rehabilitate his knee and develop other aspects of his game, the real purpose of being a power forward, which is banging underneath the basket, getting tough rebounds, and scoring within the key, have possibly been perminently denied to him because of the limitations his knee now places on him.

For his own state of mind, I hope I am wrong, but I do not think knee injuries like his get better the more you play the hard type of basketball needed to stay in the NBA.  

[Reality]

Kings were 2-0 now 2-2 although i think the two losses can be tossed.
One Stoyja and BMiller were both out.  Last night BMiller out.

The Kings IMO will now at least equal their win % accumulated since CWebb returned to end the 1st place Kings a year ago.

 

[rickortreat]

Webber is fine.  He's just under pressure because he wants to contribute so much.  As soon as he relaxes and starts playing with his normal confidence he'll be fine.

I really think the Sixers problems are more to do with Jim O'Brien than with the players.  Now that Cheeks is available, I'd consider getting rid of OB and getting Cheeks to be the coach.

Last nights game was a good expample.  The Sixers pull out to a 9pt. lead, and Kidd and VC get two 3's to go in.  The Sixers didn't call time out, run a play or do anything special to answer back.  Before you know it the Nets are up.

In truth, I think the Sixers are a better team than the Nets, but you have to have the right players on the floor, and they have to execute their plays properly.  A quick glane at the stats shows that the Nets went to the foul line much more than the Sixers, in spite of the fact that the Sixers had more points in the paint.  Webber posted up, and got fouled- no call.  The other end, VC gets a tap and goes to the line.

The refs f'ed up the game big time, since the Nets, who can't run with the Sixers were getting away with physical play, and they let them.  O'Brien didn't do anything to complain or at least try to manage the situation.  He also didn't play Dalembert much even though the Nets were killing the Sixer with second-chance shots.

The more I think about ow the Sixer managed to get leads in games and then loose them, the more I think the problem is with O'brien.  It's not like he's won anywhere in the pro's consistently.  He's too much in love with the 3 ball and his unusual defensive strategies.  He doesn't substitute well, or consistently and he plays favorites with players.    Kenny Thomas, really got screwed over by O'Brien and it was good for him to get out of Philly.  He's a better player than the way he was treated here, and O'brien was the problem.  

As far as Webber goes, he was averaging a double double for the Kings, and there's no reason he can't play at that same level here.  He certainly doesn't need to listen to impatient critics after 3 games!  

[westkoast]

Philly fans are just dying for a reason to boo a well recognized face  

Allen Iverson goes 8 for 97 and hes the most loved man in Philly.  Rick, DB....let your fellow residents know that Webber is going to need a while to adjust his game to everyone elses style.  He is no longer the leader of the team and the Sixers were not built around him like the Kings were.

[Derek Bodner]

hes the most loved man in Philly

i wouldn't say that.  People in Philly either love him or hate him, there are many of both.

[JoMal]

Webber is fine.  He's just under pressure because he wants to contribute so much.  As soon as he relaxes and starts playing with his normal confidence he'll be fine.

As far as Webber goes, he was averaging a double double for the Kings, and there's no reason he can't play at that same level here.  He certainly doesn't need to listen to impatient critics after 3 games!

Rick, whether or not Webber is fine, his offense and rebounding are the reasons he was traded to the Sixers and that is how he will be judged. The system in Sacramento catered to him; it won't in Philadelphia and it will take some time for him to fit into it. Perhaps not till next season, when he can go through a training camp. My point being that you should not expect him to provide many twenty and 10 games for the Sixers, at least the rest of this season. Chris is a smart guy and he can recognize what he needs to do, but like anyone else in sports, he will need to be able to practice it with his teammates a few times to get the feel for it.

Webber posted up, and got fouled- no call.  The other end, VC gets a tap and goes to the line.

The refs f'ed up the game big time, since the Nets, who can't run with the Sixers were getting away with physical play, and they let them.

Webber posted up and got fouled - no call. Hmmm. Why does that sound familiar.

Rick, you might have to get used to this double standard regarding Webber. He got called for offensive fouls at least twice a game early in his Sacramento days, posting up, where he would get hammered, but the call would be against him instead for using his off-hand to clear space. At least that was what the refs were looking at. They probably are right about it, but have you seen Shaq, for instance, get called for it very often? That is O'Neal's entire game. If the refs called it on him as frequently as he does it, no one would ever to talking about O'Neal being one of the best centers of all time, but just a foul-prone lug.

Anyway, why do you think Chris developed that 12-15 foot jump shot? And now he gets accused of never attacking the basket, but always settling instead for that jump shot from outside? There is a direct correlation.

[rickortreat]

Well, which is it JoMal, is he an inside player who after all these years still doesn't get a foul call when he's shooting at point blank range?  Or is he an outisde shooter who scores a double-double shooting 10-15 ft, jumpers?

Either way is fine with me, as long as he scores.  He has been getting open looks, and I figure the shots will start falling sooner or later.  I also assumed against the Eastern forwards he'd get the benefit of the doubt with foul calls.

Now, that makes two guys for the Sixers that don't get the calls they deserve: Iverson and Webber.

But the team, IMO is good enough to overcome a little bias from fhe refs, as long as it doesn't get out of hand.  In the NJ game, Kidd and Carter elevated their games and the Sixers didn't match their intensity.  The refs interferred with the momentum, but NJ still stepped up and made the shots.  

Whenever a team looses a lead, it's for one reason:  they stopped making shots. Sixers have too many options to allow that to happen, as long as they don't rely on AI.  

[JoMal]

Rick, the Sixers DO rely on Iverson in those situations, and getting Webber is hardly going to change it much. A.I. is either going to have the ball and shoot it, or have the ball and pass it, or have the ball, pass it, then get it back. As long as it works, how Webber fits into each of those scenarios is a moot point.

But I assume you already know what you are getting with the 2004/05 version of the post knee operation Webber. He is a proud man (translation - he gets his basketball meaning of life from his stats), so if he does not produce the same numbers as he did in Sacramento offensively, his greatest fear arises - that his defensive liabilities will get exposed more, and people will start to notice he gives up too many points to his man on defense to compensate for his offense.

You will not be disappointed by his nightly effort, but perhaps occasionally by the results. O'Brien will have to decide when best to sit him down, especially after back-to-backs. Several times earlier this season Adelman had to give Chris a game off to let his knee recuperate after tougher games. Frankly, he is about due for another one soon, or his production might suffer.

That is not a criticism of Webber, just a fact of life with his reconstructed knee.

Well, which is it JoMal, is he an inside player who after all these years still doesn't get a foul call when he's shooting at point blank range? Or is he an outisde shooter who scores a double-double shooting 10-15 ft, jumpers?

Not sure what you mean by this.  :huh: Webber can be effective inside as long as he limits the number of jumps he takes to avoid too many hard landings on his knee (that keeps on coming up). He grabs the rim much more then he used to so he can ease his landing, I assume, but then the refs called him on it several times already this year (depends on the ref).  I would definitely call Chris an outside shooter who will get the inside layup on occasion depending on the defense.

Some teams, he will never challenge in the paint, ever. You can figure out the reasons why when you see him take twenty outside shots in those games and make four.  
 

[Derek Bodner]

shooting too many jumpshots is acceptable on the sixers moreso than the kings.  on the kings when he took jumpers he was another person shooting jumpers on a team filled with people shooting jumpers.  it didn't help.  he was needed in the paint to force double teams and open it up for shooters.

for the sixers, outside of kyle korver, our offense is based on dribble penetration and drives.  When he's been taking jumpers, at least so far, he's been bringing his man with him.  That's opened the driving lanes up considerably for Allen Iverson and Iguodala.  Back door cuts, as well, have been more abundant since he's been here.  It's opened up the pick and roll considerably for these guys as well.

My biggest gripe so far with Webber has not been what kind of shots he takes, but how Jim O'brien is using him.  He hasn't, and has indicated he won't change, used chris to initiate the offense.  Chris hasn't been used as a setup man nearly as much as I remember in Sacramento.  And it's taking away from possibly his greatest strength offensively.

Defensively and on the boards it's been a mixture of improvements and regression.  I'd say Webber's a slightly better defensive rebounder than Kenny, but worse offensively.  

Defensively, I'd say Webber's actually a slightly better defender than Kenny in the low post.  Kenny was usually in position, but that doesn't make much difference when you're 6'7" and people shoot over you.  Kenny was obviously better against quicker pf's, and marginally better on the perimeter (webber obviously can't defend the pick and roll, but kenny's not great either.  he gets lost on the perimeter).

[Guest_spursfan101]

Webber will NOT be fine. He dosen't have the talent around him that he had in Sactown, the NATS don't play team basketball like the Kings did, and Iverson inevitably will not share the rock.  Hope his ego can take the rain of boo's that Philly fans have been showering on him, hope  he rebounds and starts shooting better, I just don't see it working out.  

[westkoast]

Webber will NOT be fine. He dosen't have the talent around him that he had in Sactown, the NATS don't play team basketball like the Kings did, and Iverson inevitably will not share the rock.  Hope his ego can take the rain of boo's that Philly fans have been showering on him, hope  he rebounds and starts shooting better, I just don't see it working out.

I disagree.  While he wont be the same Webber he was say 3-4 years ago, he still can play.  There is one thing he has in Philly he never had in Sac-Town....someone who demands more attention than he does and a person who is very capable of pulling a huge load every night.  Webber has never had a scorer or a slasher of Iverson's caliber.  IMO that will make all the difference.  

[Rickortreat]

Webber isn't the problem.  O'Brien is the problem.  The game against the Warriors was pathetic.  It was also nearly inexcuseabe, save for the fact that it was a back-to-back game, and there are a number of new players on the team.

Still on talent level, the Sixers should have been able to handle the Warriors.  If they had a better coach, IMO that would have made a difference.  Teams are making a joke out of the way the Sixers play defense.  O'Brien's ideas aren't effective against NBA teams, because the floor is spread out to far for his switching defense.  Teams that can shoot from the outside can kill them.  

[Derek Bodner]

Webber's getting enough shots.  But they're not running the offense through him nearly enough.

I'm not sure if I want to blame O'brien or Iverson.  O'brien came out, and said straight forward that they're not going to ask Iverson to change the way he plays and the way our offense is run.

What?  Are you kidding me?  This isn't Michael Bradley we're talking about here.  This is one of the best passing big men in the last 20 years.  You're not going to change your offense?

There are rumblings that nearly all the front office wants Billy to fire O'brien.  There is a lot of in-fighting (oddly, not between the players at all) right now.

[Derek Bodner]

Iverson telling Webber to "grow up"

"I've seen way worse than that," Iverson said of the boos that rained down on Webber throughout last night's pathetic loss to the Golden State Warriors. "This is Philadelphia. It didn't bother me when I was getting booed, so why should it bother me when someone else is getting booed?

"This is the toughest place in the world to play. If you didn't have anything negative surrounding you wherever you've been before, you've got to do a lot of growing up fast. Because it's going to come right at you."

[Joe Vancil]

I think O'Brien is as good as gone, especially with Philadelphia's REAL choice for coach - Maurice Cheeks - lurking out there.  I figure to see Cheeks back with the Sixers to start next season.