New arena proposition in SacTown failed . . .

[Guest_Randy]

and I hear rumblings that the Maloof's are considering a future move to Las Vegas?  

I'm not sure that LV is ready to support a local team (esp. since you couldn't BET on a team that was actually in it's town) -- esp. to the degree that SacTown has supported the Kings.  Are the Maloofs making moves to make this move easier for SacTown to stomach?

[JoMal]

The city of Sacramento is not making it any easier for the Maloofs either. One city council member came right out and said the Kings were as good as gone if something is not done about the recently failed land deal. Then Joe Maloof came out immediately afterwards and stated flat out he and his family had no interest at all in relocating the team, but thought a deal would eventually be reached.

From what I can glean from all of this, the Maloofs are willing to pay for a new arena by contributing what the League average has been in regards to owner contributions (about 15% of the cost of the new arena), and the Kings want them to pay more (about 40%). In addition, the Maloofs estimate the cost of the new arena, with all the enhancements that would make it a state-of-the-League facility, as being at least $450 million, probably more. The city thinks an adequate arena can be built for much less, about $350 million.

So they are about $72.5 million apart in how much the Maloofs are willing to pay for the new building and what the city wants them to pay. It just so happens that the previous owner, and now minority owner, Jim Thomas, had to borrow $80 million from the city to salvage the team back in the 1990's. The Maloofs inherited this loan. They have promised to pay it off prior to anything else regarding the new arena.

Maybe something can be worked out on this front, with the city forgetting the loan if the Maloofs pay an equal amount instead into the new facility.

[ziggy]

It would be shocking and disappointing if the Kings left Sacramento.  How many times have the Kings moved?  Cincy, KC, KC/Omaha, KC, Sacramento, now perhaps LV.

The city of Sacramento has supported the Kings about as well as any franchise.  If the Maloofs move them, and I don't believe they would be that foolish, I am sure another team would move to Sacramento in a heartbeat.  The Hornets, Raptors, Bucks, all come to mind.

[Guest_Randy]

This issue is much bigger than it looks -- I saw a breakdown the other day about what the city of St. Louis is going to fail to collect in revenue since the Blues weren't playing hockey and I was floored -- I had no idea they were collecting that kind of money.

On the other hand, I have a REAL hard time with governments utilizing my tax dollars so that athletes can make millions of dollars -- so that owners and the actual arena "owners" can do the same thing -- all so they can drive up the costs of ticket prices.  It seems like the ONLY person who doesn't win in this situation is the fan (okay, the non-fan living in the city IS penalized to a greater degree).  

I don't know -- something about the whole situation just makes me want to  :puke: !!!

[JoMal]

First off, ziggy, the team started out as the Rochester Royals (and won the franchise's one and only championship while there), then became the Cincinnatti Royals, then the Kansas City/Omaha Royals, then just the Kansas City Kings, and finally the Sacramento Kings.

The cost to the loyal fan base of providing these billionaire franchise owners with so much financing, Randy, is practically heartrendering. The problem is, other communities will do practically anything to lure these teams to their cities. So if the present city gives a knee-jerk reaction to the financing plan as laid down (and demanded) by the team owners, they will take their play-team with them and go elsewhere, where they will be "appreciated" more.

So cities have to anti up. The thing is, I don't want to start rooting for the Hornets, Raptors, or the Bucks.  

[rickortreat]

Makes me realize by contrast how fortunate we are in Philadelphia.  We really got the shaft, building new facilities for the Eagles and the Phillies, along with ones for the Pirates and Steelers accross the state, but every Pennsyalvanian has the privelage of paying for these high-priced entertainment venues.

At least the Wachovia Center was privately financed and built by Comcast Specatacor (although they did get some pretty good concessions from the City.)  

Then again Philadelphia isn't Sacramento, a vacancy by a major sports team would be filled in a hurry here.  Which is why I thought the City should have been much tougher on the Eagles and Phillies.     :crazy:  

I doubt if the Eagles left, Philly would have as long to wait for an NFL franchise as LA has.  

[Reality]

San Diego has raw sewage dump into its waters everytime it rains.  Storm drains/oveflow drains are woefully inadequate.  Also the drainage pipes thruought the city and county are 40+ years old.  Cracking, flat disinigrating, you name it.  All over, its a huge problem.

Also a huge sewage transport pipe that the Surfrider Foundation took a picture of.  Runs from the sewage treatment plant located right on Pt Loma on the most westernly Pacific side of SD county, runs out into the ocean several miles.  Where it dumps, you guessed it, more sewage.  Water discoloration all around.  The EPA *miraculously* put off all Federal fines due San Diego.

Hotel Del Coronado is where presidents Clinton, Bush Current and other high ranking beuarocrats and celebs stay.  Nice white sand is "washed" everyday to rid it of all debris, ie bottle tops, trash, cig butts, etc.

However a city test of the waters near the hotels beach was leaked.  Oh ya the test results were not supposed to be printed.  500 times above the acceptable bacteria count.  Hotel Del is only 10 miles upstream from Tijuana, where, you guessed it, raw sewage is fed into the Pacific.  But get this, the Tj concrete river carrying the goo?  It croses INTO SD COUNTY about a 1/2 mile before its exit thus is fed into the Pacific on US soil.  Its called Imperial Beach.  Apparantly the drug lord payoffs to US beauros keeps that a comin.  Also LaJolla, a coastal snob overpriced SD area, get this.  City workers were exposed last week in a coverup that showed Ecoli off the charts levels in the neighborhood drinking water.  At two seperate locations.  Maybe we can start a thread on Water Purifyers, which work best.

But, while the goo keeps flowing, the taxpayers did have jammed up their noses a new Padres Petco Park.  Oh it went to a vote, but in retrospect count the ways in which the Padres and City lied.  With a new seperate Chargers stadium also in attempted Jamation as we speak.  Even tho media lifetime or 10+ year attendees (ESPN vet anchors, Sports ILL longtime writers who attend every year) said of both the 1998 and 2003 SuperBowls at current Qualcomm Stadium they had attended simply none better then San Diego Bowls.  That and Chargers owner Spanos telling Larry King Live that his goal for the next 10 years was to earn a 2nd Billion dollars.

[rickortreat]

Reality, I had no idea it was THAT bad in San Diego.  Amazeing that the authorities would rather look the other way than deal with a significant health problem like that.  Makes one wonder how long property values will stay up knowing that you and your kids are getting sick from human waste!
 

[Reality]

Reality, I had no idea it was THAT bad in San Diego.  Amazeing that the authorities would rather look the other way than deal with a significant health problem like that.  Makes one wonder how long property values will stay up knowing that you and your kids are getting sick from human waste!

Surf addicts (and many others) regularly go right thru Baby Ruth bars.
Restraunts above the shoreline with outdoor romantical seating are oftimes greeted with Scent de Suwajge.

I won't touch the S.D. waters.  In the Pacific or tapwater.

Yes they want you tourists, make that your tourist dollars, not hearing a thing about the water reports.

Naw property will actually continue go up in San Diego.  Its either #1 or #2 in the nation for highest cost.  479K is the median price.  Mega dump 1 BR condos are $275K.  The weather is great almost 300 days a year.  Smog is getting worse due to car traffic and continues to digress to L.A. levels, however SD County has vitually no manufacturing plant pollution.  Also the Mexis, South Amers and other foreigners are flocking here by the droves.  Along with a lot of US young uns looking for the big city.

 

[westkoast]

San Diego IS trying to do something about the water and wastewater.  I can confirm that.  How much...not exactly sure.  We have an office in the area and the city of SD has contacted the company I work for to design, layout, and address some of the problems SD is having.

The EPA is really stepping up their efforts to nail municipalities (sp?) for not complying with the latest laws.  Reality you should see some changes by this year.    I would imagine San Diego is going to be scrambling to get some of these bigger problems handled because it is going to have an impact on how water and waste water is delivered/treated.  Which in the end not only gets the EPA on their rear ends it makes people like Reality venture away from consuming their water.

[JoMal]

My brother is a city councilman for the city of Galt, in southern Sacramento county. He was telling me that one of the big issues facing cities and towns in California is in regards to legislation passed about ten years ago that requires sewage water being dumped to be purified to a point that it is actually clearer then tap water.

Because of this, many smaller cities, like Galt, face a huge dilemna. The costs of the equipment needed to treat waste water are astronomical. They need to either generate extra revenue (rezoning green belts for development, for instance), or reduce other city services, like police and fire.

A larger city like San Diego does not face that kind of fiscal problem, at least on that score, but it still must make them pause to consider what needs to be implemented to get their own waste water up to the state standards.

The requirements of where this waste is being dumped also may factor into it. For Galt, a completely landllocked community, dumping into a nearby water source is impossible, as that is tightly regulated. So they use this waste water in the nearby farms and ranches, just releasing it directly onto the surface land. Which makes thinking you could just drink it straight from the tap, so to speak, if you wanted to, a bit overkill, if you ask me.  

[westkoast]

JoMaL, you hit it dead on.  The company I work for just had a confrence that touched on some of the things you were just talking about.  The EPA and Co. are and have been putting up some real tight restrictions, laws, regulations whatever you wanna call it on water/waste water yet the government isnt exactly just passing out money for some of these smaller cities to get up to par.  One gentlemen in particular asked one of the EPA reps that was at the confrence presenting how are they suppose to pull money out of nowhere to comply.  The EPA rep pretty much had no real answer for him.  Not every area has the luxury like the Orange County Sanitation District to have one of their plants located less than a mile from the ocean.

You guys really would be suprised how much time and effort is put into treating our drinking water and cleaning up the waste water.  It is a very difficult task.  Really I had no idea until I started working for one of the leaders in the industry.  You pick up a thing or two when you are asked to be on deck at confrences incase a laptop goes screwy.  

Just today I was up in Tulare at one of the treatment plants getting everything working in a trailor for two of our engineers from Fresno.  There is a huge process in treating this water.   This being a smaller and more wide open treatment plant I got to see more of the process than when I have gone to some of the other treatment plants in Central and Southern California.  

[WayOutWest]

Who do you work for westkoast?

I did the controls for the Long Beach water treatment plant, better known as the "Toilet to Tap" project.

Waste water treatment has the 2nd lowest margins in the controls industry, the most cut throat margins are in the power distribution industry.

[Reality]

San Diego IS trying to do something about the water and wastewater.  I can confirm that.  How much...not exactly sure.

In Jan the vast majority of projects to fix the ancient sewage and drain pipes were again put off indefinitely by Mayor Dick Murphy and the City of SD.  Sorry don't have the link.

That some relatively smaller ones are proceding is good news but merely a dent in the overall problem.

As for the EPA, and rules put down are meaningless if they are later simply not enforced.  As was the previous barking about how SD had to get its treatment plants up to date or face fines.  They were simply waived and dates extended.

Ditto the clean air acts.  Back in the mid 90's it was law that by X year, around 1998 Calif was to have 10% of the cars on the road electic non polluters.  Klinton and Pete Wilson simply erased that date as it approached.  The official Bush policy on Greenhouse gasses is that its too late to stop them, they now are *focusing* (yea right) on what to do about them by 2015-2020 when it appears the damage will become far worse then the already existing serious damage.

[westkoast]

Who do you work for westkoast?

I did the controls for the Long Beach water treatment plant, better known as the "Toilet to Tap" project.

Waste water treatment has the 2nd lowest margins in the controls industry, the most cut throat margins are in the power distribution industry.

Carollo Engineers......I dont know if they worked with LB previously but I do know we did have a bid in for a job out there not too long ago.    I am not in the industry, just the lowly IT tech , but from people ive spoken with Carollo has a good rep.  Edit:  Yea we did work with Long Beach fairly recenetly....a storm drain master plan.


Reality, the EPA rep also talked about the "fines" or in this case the lack of serious fines.  They will be stepping up the punishment for anyone trying to drag their feet on any of the requirements they are putting forth for 2006.  You are right tho, some places its easier to get extensions or deal with a weak fine then replace all those old pipes and pumps.  Correct me if I heard wrong but someone was saying that SD financially is falling into the same hole Orange County did not to far back.  Maybe the mismanagement of funds has really slowed things down even more.