Author Topic: What is that feeling I am having in my gut  (Read 2656 times)

Offline JoMal

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What is that feeling I am having in my gut
« on: February 25, 2005, 12:28:07 PM »
Having a day to digest the scope of this trade with Philadelphia has left me with this queasy feeling deep in my gut. I woke up with it and it has persisted. After half a century of life, I have come to respect that feeling for whatever reason it comes about, be it about my job, family, or whatever I am doing with my life. It means something is not quite right.

So I have been trying to figure out where it came from and why I have it. Was Webber THAT important to my team?

It turns out that he was. It goes back to the day when the Kings were the NBA's version of today's Bobcats; only without the excuse for being an expansion team full of players other teams felt was not good enough to be part of their core teams. Back then, players did not want to come to Sacramento.

Then, one day, we had a slew of quality players who maybe at first did not buy into starting something new here, but who quickly did. Signing Vlade Divac was huge, in that a quality free agent player actually CHOSE the Kings. We drafted Jason Williams, who some of you might recall was so flashy and ESPN-worthy that first year or two, his jersey was outselling everyone's in the League outside of Kobe Bryant back then.

Bobby Jackson was signed, then Doug Christie came in a trade. And Kings fans a year or two earlier had booed Petrie for drafting a 19 year old Yugoslavian kid who was still under contract in the Greek League. Then suddenly we learned that the kid was coming to Sacramento also, and with Peja, our core group was in place.

It never won a championship, however, and not for lack of trying. The entertaining style of offense installed by Adelman and Pete Carill inspired not only the fans watching it, but Sacramento was getting national attention as a fun place to play the game; players on other teams opined that they would love to play that style of ball; announcers were saying the Kings made them optimistic about the future of the NBA, hoping other teams would copy it. They did.

It lasted a short five years. Then the reality of it all set in. While entertaining, it became obvious that a little defense and rebounding could have made a huge difference at times; that this wild offense could use some players who could calmly hit key free throws when playoff games were on the line. The friendly commentators turned on the team as being all flash with no championship fire or substance.

And Chris Webber was in the center of every single moment. His name was given the superstar status; he was called the King' best player, and he soon became the highest paid player not only on the team, but one of the highest in the League. Along with all of that, came the expectations always associated with the label. But no matter how dedicated he was to achieving that lofty goal of winning a championship for the city of Sacramento, no matter what he said (or how he said it), through all the injuries he suffered and his constant rehabs and his swearing they will and must get tougher and better, it eluded him and his core teammates every year.

Jason was traded away early for a better point guard, who was not as flashy, but clearly a better fit for success. Vlade got old trying to help Chris and the Kings win that elusive championship, and eventually left. Christie was traded away finally. And now the real heart of the team, the de facto leader for the last five years, regardless of how people perceived Vlade as being in that role, has been traded away as well, leaving just Peja to continue the quest.

Something is not right in all of this. There is unfinished business left. While people have been quoting the King's record with and without Chris on the floor, they forget that his teammates always knew that Webber would be greeting them behind the bench, smiling his megawatt smile at the inside jokes, laughing it up and cheering them on, as they knew they were just holding the fort while he healed from his latest injury and they will once again defer to him. Odd that this did not mean they played better, but the mental side of the game is the hardest to figure out. I think they eased up knowing that Webber would be responsible for all the success or failures they had as a team, and they could maybe slide a bit themselves as a result.

That Webber fallback position is now history; gone to Philadelphia and, hopefully for Chris, another chance at that elusive championship he tried so hard to get in for us in Sacramento.  People should not forget what it was like before this last five year era. That legitimacy that Webber helped install here cannot be ignored.

You do not get a legitimate superstar every day, and you should pause and contemplate what it means when he no longer plays for your team.

Ergo, I have this dull ache in my stomach today.
 
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline SPURSX3

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What is that feeling I am having in my gut
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2005, 12:58:08 PM »
Quote
Having a day to digest the scope of this trade with Philadelphia has left me with this queasy feeling deep in my gut. I woke up with it and it has persisted. After half a century of life, I have come to respect that feeling for whatever reason it comes about, be it about my job, family, or whatever I am doing with my life. It means something is not quite right.

So I have been trying to figure out where it came from and why I have it. Was Webber THAT important to my team?

It turns out that he was. It goes back to the day when the Kings were the NBA's version of today's Bobcats; only without the excuse for being an expansion team full of players other teams felt was not good enough to be part of their core teams. Back then, players did not want to come to Sacramento.

Then, one day, we had a slew of quality players who maybe at first did not buy into starting something new here, but who quickly did. Signing Vlade Divac was huge, in that a quality free agent player actually CHOSE the Kings. We drafted Jason Williams, who some of you might recall was so flashy and ESPN-worthy that first year or two, his jersey was outselling everyone's in the League outside of Kobe Bryant back then.

Bobby Jackson was signed, then Doug Christie came in a trade. And Kings fans a year or two earlier had booed Petrie for drafting a 19 year old Yugoslavian kid who was still under contract in the Greek League. Then suddenly we learned that the kid was coming to Sacramento also, and with Peja, our core group was in place.

It never won a championship, however, and not for lack of trying. The entertaining style of offense installed by Adelman and Pete Carill inspired not only the fans watching it, but Sacramento was getting national attention as a fun place to play the game; players on other teams opined that they would love to play that style of ball; announcers were saying the Kings made them optimistic about the future of the NBA, hoping other teams would copy it. They did.

It lasted a short five years. Then the reality of it all set in. While entertaining, it became obvious that a little defense and rebounding could have made a huge difference at times; that this wild offense could use some players who could calmly hit key free throws when playoff games were on the line. The friendly commentators turned on the team as being all flash with no championship fire or substance.

And Chris Webber was in the center of every single moment. His name was given the superstar status; he was called the King' best player, and he soon became the highest paid player not only on the team, but one of the highest in the League. Along with all of that, came the expectations always associated with the label. But no matter how dedicated he was to achieving that lofty goal of winning a championship for the city of Sacramento, no matter what he said (or how he said it), through all the injuries he suffered and his constant rehabs and his swearing they will and must get tougher and better, it eluded him and his core teammates every year.

Jason was traded away early for a better point guard, who was not as flashy, but clearly a better fit for success. Vlade got old trying to help Chris and the Kings win that elusive championship, and eventually left. Christie was traded away finally. And now the real heart of the team, the de facto leader for the last five years, regardless of how people perceived Vlade as being in that role, has been traded away as well, leaving just Peja to continue the quest.

Something is not right in all of this. There is unfinished business left. While people have been quoting the King's record with and without Chris on the floor, they forget that his teammates always knew that Webber would be greeting them behind the bench, smiling his megawatt smile at the inside jokes, laughing it up and cheering them on, as they knew they were just holding the fort while he healed from his latest injury and they will once again defer to him. Odd that this did not mean they played better, but the mental side of the game is the hardest to figure out. I think they eased up knowing that Webber would be responsible for all the success or failures they had as a team, and they could maybe slide a bit themselves as a result.

That Webber fallback position is now history; gone to Philadelphia and, hopefully for Chris, another chance at that elusive championship he tried so hard to get in for us in Sacramento.  People should not forget what it was like before this last five year era. That legitimacy that Webber helped install here cannot be ignored.

You do not get a legitimate superstar every day, and you should pause and contemplate what it means when he no longer plays for your team.

Ergo, I have this dull ache in my stomach today.
it's gas dude....take some phazyme.
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Guest_Randy

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What is that feeling I am having in my gut
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2005, 01:41:08 PM »
Quote
Having a day to digest the scope of this trade with Philadelphia has left me with this queasy feeling deep in my gut. I woke up with it and it has persisted. After half a century of life, I have come to respect that feeling for whatever reason it comes about, be it about my job, family, or whatever I am doing with my life. It means something is not quite right.

So I have been trying to figure out where it came from and why I have it. Was Webber THAT important to my team?

It turns out that he was. It goes back to the day when the Kings were the NBA's version of today's Bobcats; only without the excuse for being an expansion team full of players other teams felt was not good enough to be part of their core teams. Back then, players did not want to come to Sacramento.

Then, one day, we had a slew of quality players who maybe at first did not buy into starting something new here, but who quickly did. Signing Vlade Divac was huge, in that a quality free agent player actually CHOSE the Kings. We drafted Jason Williams, who some of you might recall was so flashy and ESPN-worthy that first year or two, his jersey was outselling everyone's in the League outside of Kobe Bryant back then.

Bobby Jackson was signed, then Doug Christie came in a trade. And Kings fans a year or two earlier had booed Petrie for drafting a 19 year old Yugoslavian kid who was still under contract in the Greek League. Then suddenly we learned that the kid was coming to Sacramento also, and with Peja, our core group was in place.

It never won a championship, however, and not for lack of trying. The entertaining style of offense installed by Adelman and Pete Carill inspired not only the fans watching it, but Sacramento was getting national attention as a fun place to play the game; players on other teams opined that they would love to play that style of ball; announcers were saying the Kings made them optimistic about the future of the NBA, hoping other teams would copy it. They did.

It lasted a short five years. Then the reality of it all set in. While entertaining, it became obvious that a little defense and rebounding could have made a huge difference at times; that this wild offense could use some players who could calmly hit key free throws when playoff games were on the line. The friendly commentators turned on the team as being all flash with no championship fire or substance.

And Chris Webber was in the center of every single moment. His name was given the superstar status; he was called the King' best player, and he soon became the highest paid player not only on the team, but one of the highest in the League. Along with all of that, came the expectations always associated with the label. But no matter how dedicated he was to achieving that lofty goal of winning a championship for the city of Sacramento, no matter what he said (or how he said it), through all the injuries he suffered and his constant rehabs and his swearing they will and must get tougher and better, it eluded him and his core teammates every year.

Jason was traded away early for a better point guard, who was not as flashy, but clearly a better fit for success. Vlade got old trying to help Chris and the Kings win that elusive championship, and eventually left. Christie was traded away finally. And now the real heart of the team, the de facto leader for the last five years, regardless of how people perceived Vlade as being in that role, has been traded away as well, leaving just Peja to continue the quest.

Something is not right in all of this. There is unfinished business left. While people have been quoting the King's record with and without Chris on the floor, they forget that his teammates always knew that Webber would be greeting them behind the bench, smiling his megawatt smile at the inside jokes, laughing it up and cheering them on, as they knew they were just holding the fort while he healed from his latest injury and they will once again defer to him. Odd that this did not mean they played better, but the mental side of the game is the hardest to figure out. I think they eased up knowing that Webber would be responsible for all the success or failures they had as a team, and they could maybe slide a bit themselves as a result.

That Webber fallback position is now history; gone to Philadelphia and, hopefully for Chris, another chance at that elusive championship he tried so hard to get in for us in Sacramento.  People should not forget what it was like before this last five year era. That legitimacy that Webber helped install here cannot be ignored.

You do not get a legitimate superstar every day, and you should pause and contemplate what it means when he no longer plays for your team.

Ergo, I have this dull ache in my stomach today.
Some great points, here, JoMal.  CWebb certainly WAS a great player -- perhaps the best passing PF to ever play the game.  And chemistry?  Chemistry was one of the greatest strengths of the Kings.  

However, I also want to make a couple of points in addition to your comments -- things that point out that not ALL of this was Webber -- but the Kings as a whole.

1) It was fun to play in SacTown -- most of that was because of a TEAM emphasis rather than an individual emphasis.

2) Geoff Petrie deserves a TON of credit here (more than Webber) for acquiring the right pieces here and there.

3) The Maloofs ponied up and dropped a ton of cash on the table (see Allen of Portland) and players (remember Keon Clark) began to see a BIG payday in SacTown (as well as the possibility of winning and playing on a great team) in a league strapped with a salary cap and luxury tax.  

4) While Webber was a strong leader with the Kings (no one should refute that), Vlade Divac was JUST as important to the Kings chemistry, team and leadership (on and off the court).  If you go back over the years and listen to the team talk (including these players) BOTH of these players (and the rest of the team) pointed to these two as leaders.  It is important to note that just as CWebb factored in critically to the positive team spirit and chemistry the Kings enjoyed for years -- he also factors in critically to the negative team spirit and chemistry that presently exists.  In fact, a huge factor in this trade is that the Kings were faced with a choice:  keep Webber (at his present salary, age and health) and lose Peja (who is just coming into his prime) or vice versa.  Tough decision for the Kings.

5) You don't pay a player the top salary in the league, IMO, unless he is the best player in the league -- Webber was NEVER the top player in the league!  A top 5 player?  Perhaps but he never could never have beaten out TD, Shaq and/or KG -- and perhaps a couple more just as good.  

I think, in conclusion, the problem came when Webber decided, one day, that he WAS the Kings -- some players bought into that, IMO, others did not.  Rather than handle the problem (of course, Adelmann, IMO, has always acted like Webber is the Kings too), the problem was ignored and hoped to fade away but suddenly, Vlade was tossed aside (to help the problem) only to make the problem worse.  Why?  Because the Kings lied -- they told Vlade, Peja and the rest of the basketball world that the Kings couldn't AFFORD Vlade -- then they turned around and paid Greg Ostertag (who makes Rasho Nesterovich look like an All-Star) $5 mill a year (Vlade would have played for $2 a year.  And suddenly, things went from bad to worse!  Peja and Webber, while both trying to be professional, couldn't even find a way to play well together on the same court.  It leaves the Kings management in a tough position, IMO.  

One can't neglect what Webber has done for the Kings organization -- however, one shouldn't also ignore the negative impact he has had in the Kings demise.  Of course, most great civilizations fall from within -- not from without.

Offline WayOutWest

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What is that feeling I am having in my gut
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2005, 01:54:37 PM »
You're telling me JoMal.  Just imagine what it's like to be a Laker fan, losing Shaq who was all that and ALOT more.  

After Magic retired I my "hard core" Laker fan days were over.  I was still a fan but I wouldn't watch every single game as I had in years past.  Even durring the Shaq/Kobe/Jackson era I didn't catch more than half the games.  When Chicky Baby passed away I practically gave up watching the Lakers.  Even when the Fab Four HOF'ers were gearing up for the mother of all seasons I didn't catch more than 20 games.  Since the break up of the dynamic duo, aka as the Shaq exodus, I have yet to catch a complete game except for L.A. vs Miami.  I'm more interested in the Clippers and the NBA overall.

I'm bummed as a Laker fan, it's one of the darkest days in my experience.  Despite all that I'll still raise my sword to defend the honor of the Lakers at the drop of a hat.  :nod:

In other words JoMal....FEELING YOU!  :cry:

FYI: White Chocolate's jersey was out selling everyone except Shaq.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2005, 01:55:40 PM by WayOutWest »
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Offline Lurker

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What is that feeling I am having in my gut
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2005, 02:39:41 PM »
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Greg Ostertag (who makes Rasho Nesterovich look like an All-Star)
A thread about the Kings and your Spurs fascination cannot be suppressed.  Randy is to Spurs what Reality is to Lakers.  Thus Randy = Reality.   :rofl:  
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Offline JoMal

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« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2005, 03:05:07 PM »
Quote
You're telling me JoMal.  Just imagine what it's like to be a Laker fan, losing Shaq who was all that and ALOT more.  

After Magic retired I my "hard core" Laker fan days were over.  I was still a fan but I wouldn't watch every single game as I had in years past.  Even durring the Shaq/Kobe/Jackson era I didn't catch more than half the games.  When Chicky Baby passed away I practically gave up watching the Lakers.  Even when the Fab Four HOF'ers were gearing up for the mother of all seasons I didn't catch more than 20 games.  Since the break up of the dynamic duo, aka as the Shaq exodus, I have yet to catch a complete game except for L.A. vs Miami.  I'm more interested in the Clippers and the NBA overall.

I'm bummed as a Laker fan, it's one of the darkest days in my experience.  Despite all that I'll still raise my sword to defend the honor of the Lakers at the drop of a hat.  :nod:

In other words JoMal....FEELING YOU!  :cry:

 
Quote
FYI: White Chocolate's jersey was out selling everyone except Shaq.

I knew it was some Laker or other.

Quote
One can't neglect what Webber has done for the Kings organization -- however, one shouldn't also ignore the negative impact he has had in the Kings demise. Of course, most great civilizations fall from within -- not from without.

My point is, to you all, but Randy brought up the negative aspects of Webber, is that even bad publicity for Sacramento was something. Before this era, the Kings were that spot on the map where other teams could pick up a quick victory and be on their way.

The Kings are not going back to that bad era, at least not right away, but Webber was the image of the Kings, good or bad, for these past five or six years, and that now essentially leaves us with no image of which to speak. Even the Lakers could hang their hats on a legit superstar in Kobe. The Kings are looking to Peja, and so far he has shirked the responsibility, letting Vlade and then Webber take the hits.

I am a bit lost at the moment. He was far from perfect. but at least Webber as a King was someone to compare to others around the League. Take Duncan away from San Antonio, or Garnett away from the Wolves, and those team just do not look the same, or "feel" the same.

It takes time, as teams like Utah and Toronto are finding out when they lost their "image" players, but these guys are hard to find.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline westkoast

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« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2005, 04:23:27 PM »
Quote
Quote
Greg Ostertag (who makes Rasho Nesterovich look like an All-Star)
A thread about the Kings and your Spurs fascination cannot be suppressed.  Randy is to Spurs what Reality is to Lakers.  Thus Randy = Reality.   :rofl:
 :rofl:

You gonna take that Randy?  The Lurker/Randy e-beef is much more entertaining than the Koast/Reality beef.


JoMaL....I feel your pain.  As someone who enjoyed watching the Kings when they were all together and playing on the same page I can say Im going to miss it.  The interior passing, the forced jump shots when being guarded by powerhouse Samaki Walker  :D (sorry had to get a shot in) , the beautiful run and gun style, all of it.  The Kings officially are Lakers status now.  Welcome to the middle of the pack, regular basketball team ranks.
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rickorteat

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What is that feeling I am having in my gut
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2005, 05:11:09 PM »
I feel your pain JoMal.  It's definitely the end of an era for the Kings.  The teams cornerstone is gone.

Now we realize how important Divac was to keep the harmony of team going.  This was a bad series of moves for the Kings, IMO, dating all the way back to trading Doug and Vlade.

Not sure where the King will end up with this, you still have some very good players in Peja and Bibby and Miller.  If Skinner can stay healthy he'll help, and the other two can score and rebound.   Still a playoff team.

Was this really necessary for the Kings?  Peja would bolt for sure?  They were doing pretty well, 34-20 is a decent record, I wouldn't have done this trade.  

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« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2005, 05:51:38 PM »
Quote
Quote
Greg Ostertag (who makes Rasho Nesterovich look like an All-Star)
A thread about the Kings and your Spurs fascination cannot be suppressed.  Randy is to Spurs what Reality is to Lakers.  Thus Randy = Reality.   :rofl:
Yeah, yeah, yeah -- sour grapes -- Lurker is just soooo discouraged because it just isn't nearly as much fun insulting the Lakers these days, huh?  By-the-way, I didn't make fun of the Spurs, just Rasho Nesterovic (and I did actually use his name in the same sentence as "All-Star" -- doesn't that make you even a little bit happy?)!   :hail:  

Offline JoMal

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« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2005, 07:13:53 PM »
Quote
I feel your pain JoMal.  It's definitely the end of an era for the Kings.  The teams cornerstone is gone.

Now we realize how important Divac was to keep the harmony of team going.  This was a bad series of moves for the Kings, IMO, dating all the way back to trading Doug and Vlade.

Not sure where the King will end up with this, you still have some very good players in Peja and Bibby and Miller.  If Skinner can stay healthy he'll help, and the other two can score and rebound.   Still a playoff team.

Was this really necessary for the Kings?  Peja would bolt for sure?  They were doing pretty well, 34-20 is a decent record, I wouldn't have done this trade.
Rick, I was looking at what this trade does to your salary cap situation, and I was blown away. You had better be banking on playoff success this season, because your flexibility for the future went out the window after this. The Sixers owe Iverson/Webber a ton of money over the next three years after this one:

2005/06

Webber = $19,125,000
Iverson = $16,453,125

2006/07

Webber = $20,718,750 (player option - which I would guess Chris will take)
Iverson = $18,281,250

2007/08  

Webber = $22,312,500
Iverson = $20,109,375

In addition, the team still has Todd MacCulloch on the payroll for $6,353,200 next season and $6,807,000 the year after.

And Mashburn is getting $10,075,000 (another player option salary) in 2006/07, plus $10,850,000 the following year. I have to assume retirements here is the plan. Does Mashburn and MacCulloch know what they are giving up if they retire?

Now, I am no salary cap expert, but HEW- MOMMA!!! Right now, with no further action, the Sixers will be paying out $71,207,600 in salary next season.

So, if the Sixers win the Atlantic, they get the third seed in the East. But if they don't, they likely don't even MAKE the playoffs.

How good does this trade look then?  
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

rickortreat

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What is that feeling I am having in my gut
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2005, 09:31:23 PM »
The only risk is if AI and Cwebb stay healthy and productive in the next few years.  Yes it's a big risk, but the Sixers desparately needed another star to help AI.  The window is still open for the Sixers and this was about as good an opportunity they were going to get to add a player of Webber's ability.

We have a lot of young talent on the team that's only going to get better, but no matter how good they get, they will still need AI and Cwebb to be effective on the court.

IMO they are a lock to win the Atlantic and make the playoffs.  With two all-stars they should have enough to go fairly deep in the playoffs.  Their young players probably aren't ready for the higher level of pressure and play in the deeper rounds. I wouldn't expect more than getting to the second round, but it's not completly out of the question for them to make it to the EC finals.

Before this trade, I was hopefull that they could make the playoffs in the weak Atlantic.  Now, I have some more meaningfull games to look forward to near term.

Even saddled with the salaries they still have Andre Igoudala, Kyle Korver and Samuel Dalembert, plus Willie Green and John Salmons.  That should be a pretty good team eventually, even as AI and Webber decline a bit.  

Offline Derek Bodner

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What is that feeling I am having in my gut
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2005, 10:25:56 PM »
JoMal:

Todd Macculloch has already retired.  Mashburn has told Billy King that he is retiring.  Both of those contracts will be paid by insurance.  MacCulloch's contract actually doesn't even count against us in terms of salary cap anymore, and Mashburn's won't count as of next March.

This actually helps our cap flexibility.  Why?  Years.  The Sixers aren't going to be under the salary cap until Allen Iversons contract expires.  So adding contract until that point has no negative consequences (assuming Comcast will pay it) for the Sixers flexibility.  The fact that Webber's contract comes off the cap 1 year before Iversons actually helps the Sixers rebuild in 4 years more than Kenny's contract, which would be upwards of 9 million at that point.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2005, 10:26:11 PM by dbodner »

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« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2005, 01:27:35 PM »
Normally, I place JoMal in the astute category on this board, in fact in the top 2-3 in that category. That is why this post leaves me befuddled at not only JoMal, but also everyone here who has weighed in with the opinion that Webber was such an impact on the Kings success.

To my way of thinking, with the exception that Sacramento did little to change their salary over the next 3 years and so did little for their short-term player acquisition prospects, Kings fans should be dancing in the streets at the exit of this malcontented, VERY often injured, EXRTEEEEEMELY overrated punk. Webber slowed down and hampered the Kings freewheeling style of play every time he stepped on the court, which was not often, given this sissy’s injury prone nature. You can point out he was always smiling and encouraging from behind the bench all you want, but who pays that kind of money for a cheer leader? At no time, no time, did Webber’s presence on the court change the dynamics of a game in a positive way when it mattered, he was and is a wimpy sissy woman in the paint and with the exception of rebounding (he ranks 9th this season), and steals (a so-so 19th) he has no impact defensively, younger quicker players just blow right by him, and this supposedly big, bad Power Forward isn’t even on the charts for blocks.

Offensively, his PPG is 19th (not bad, but not superstar level by any means), and he turns the ball over at a blistering 2.85 T.O.’s per game. He’s not in the top 50 in FG percentage, or FT’s. But the biggest liability of this ne’er do well is the way he stagnates an offense, Philly thinks this is going to play to the strengths of youth and athleticism of their team? They think this will open up the offense? Webber needs the rock in his hand to be ineffective; Iverson needs it to be effective, where do you think this is going?

IMHO, the Kings shot themselves in the foot letting go of Doug Christie FAR, FAR more than they did Webber, he has never been a superstar, and he will only strangle Philly, and if I am wrong I will gladly come on here and eat my words and humbly apologize.

For minutes played, Kenny Thomas is not a bad pick up at all for the Kings, nor is Williamson, for the same reason, plus Kenny has Finals experience and is a former 6th man of the year. Sacramento may not have picked up superstars or even all-stars, and the salary swap made no sense, but Ziggy made a good point in another post, those that are writing the Kings off before the jury returns may be in for surprise, if nothing else, they got rid of a seriously overrated nobody.
Dan

Offline JoMal

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« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2005, 02:01:33 PM »
Laker Dan, you misconstrued my main point.

The trade itself was inevitable, and I have no problem with Webber finally getting moved. All of your points regarding him as he affected the team are pretty much accurate, though I would label him as being a superstar. That is the whole issue, actually.

He was ALREADY labelled a superstar when he came out of college, but then for his first five years in the league he was just considered a bust - until he came to the Kings. It was in Sacramento that he became the All Star everyone thought he was coming into the League. It is THIS image that I have been referring to. He essentially made people notice what was happening here, because he suddenly blossomed into the player all his other coaches thought he should have been. That we now can critique exactly where his game really fails is only possible with the realization that his game is that good to begin with.

But regardless of those flaws, he helped out the city of Sacramento and the Kings tremendously. He was flashy, he dated Tyra Banks, he had celebrities coming into Arco to see the Kings play, he was making national news for his mistakes as well as whether he was MVP material, all star material, or dissing or loving the city of Sacramento itself.

We got more national attention from him then the rest of the team combined. And that window of opportunity came about because Chris Webber was playing here, not because we traded for Brad Miller, or traded away Doug Christie.

It was the era I was referring to. The Chris Webber era he brought to Sacramento is only given for a player that is a little bigger then just his stats.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2005, 02:03:29 PM by JoMal »
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline JoMal

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« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2005, 02:56:57 PM »
Quote
JoMal:

Todd Macculloch has already retired. Mashburn has told Billy King that he is retiring. Both of those contracts will be paid by insurance. MacCulloch's contract actually doesn't even count against us in terms of salary cap anymore, and Mashburn's won't count as of next March.

This actually helps our cap flexibility. Why? Years. The Sixers aren't going to be under the salary cap until Allen Iversons contract expires. So adding contract until that point has no negative consequences (assuming Comcast will pay it) for the Sixers flexibility. The fact that Webber's contract comes off the cap 1 year before Iversons actually helps the Sixers rebuild in 4 years more than Kenny's contract, which would be upwards of 9 million at that point.

Regardless of how the contracts are paid out, they still count against the cap, don't they? MacCullach's contract is still listed on Hoopshype as being on the books, so it must still be counted against the cap.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2005, 02:57:56 PM by JoMal »
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."