Passion of the Christ

[SPURSX3]

I know the story behind JC and what/why he did on the cross.

Still, the bad guys throughout the movie where the Jews, to ignore their portrayel in the movie is silly and your typical religious approach to dealing with real problems/issues (ignore/hide it and hope for the best).

The Jews were the driving force behind putting him through that horrid ordeal IN THE MOVIE.

You guys are confusing what  you believe or where taught to believe vs. what was portrayed in the movie.

Its like i said, if you dont understadn the movie , read the book. I can guess that you have Wow and understands the what why and how, the point is if you do get it, why be pissed off because it wasnt in the movie?  its not like  a stephen king novel.  The purpose of the movie was not to give backdrop to what lead up to the crucifiction it was to show what Christ may have gone through after being betrade.  notice how there is no story as to why Judas betrays Him, no story on what happens to His disciples, where are the rest of them?  There is a lot missing from biblical scripts in regards to the beliefs of Christ, the what the why and the how basically.  this was not a learning tool in my opinion, but a visual of what could have happen and how it transpired to give the believers in Christ a real idea of what Christ went through in our salvation.  It is like in the movie where Pilate is talking about "what is truth?" if you believe you will know it, if not you wouldnt get it anyway.  People who have questions about the what how and why should pick up a bible, talk to some religious leader, etc to find out more and discuss it if need be.
With Christ being such an afront to the Jewish leaders control in such a volatile [sp?] world it is easy to understand the power struggle, the fact is Pilate and the other leaders did struggle with putting Christ on the cross to some extent even Herrod dismissed condemming him. is it important in regard to the brutality faced on his way to the cross?  no.  I have said a number of times now that the story was laid out and happenned as it was suppossed to be laid out, Yes the Jews are Gods chosen people, yes he has put them in perilous positions before, yes he has blessed them before, yes he has also punished them.  does that mean they are eveil because they played the roles that God gave them to play?  no.  God could have had any chosen any race color creed etc it wouldnt have mattered because it would have been a role that was meant to be played out by them, thats why the Jews, the Romans, anybody in paticular , wouldnt have been to blame for it.  the reason Christ was sent down LONG before the crucifiction was becuase of the sins of mankind as a whole (hey notice how that was not included in the movie too, damn you Mel Gibson!! just kidding) which i am sure you already know.  whay complain about it?  it is not as if the Jews the Romans, the Greeks, The Wookies, anybody for that matter would have been, "Pardon me Jesus, could you please hold this hammer and lay on this cross so we could nail you down?"   :blink:

 

[spursfan101]

Don't forget vengeance at times. If you believe the story of Noah and the Ark, God killed EVERYBODY and EVERYTHING on this Earth with the exception of like 8 people. Those 8 people needed to care for the THOUSANDS of animals that were on the ark.

And that was *GOD'S* vengeance...not man's.

Being the Devil's Advocate. Read below:

A conservative estimate of the number of creatures pairing up in the shadow of the massing thunderheads is twenty-one thousand known land-loving and freshwater species times two. Noah had to pick seven pairs from each species. That's 294,000 critters. The bible doesn't mention that Noah had to have aquariums for the thousands of fresh water species of fish and other fresh water loving animals. Nor does it mention how he aeriated the water in the tanks for 40 days. Nor does it say where he got the fresh water to replenish the water in the tanks as it evaporated. And that's assuming he had aquariums. Remember, fresh water fish and animals couldn't have lived in the salty oceans for 150 days.

The feeding of the animals and the amount of food required in addition to the diversity of the food sounds like an overwhelming task for the small crew. It amounted to each person caring for over 24,000 animals each day.

Then there's the question of how Noah's crew cleaned the ark after the animals each day. Shoveling the excretion from 294,000 animals daily must have kept them fairly busy. The methane gas from the excretions had to be overwhelming. I've often wondered how Noah dealt with exhausting those deadly methane fumes. That's not to mention the ammonia fumes from the urine.

Even if the number of animals is reduced significantly, the task is obviously one of great difficulty if not an impossibility. For argument's sake, lets reduce the number of animals to one-fourth of the original calculation - roughly 75,000 animals. Working 14 hours shifts, each crew member would have had to care for more than 400 animals per hour or over 60 animals per minute. And that includes both feeding and shoveling.  

[WayOutWest]

While I've not seen the movie yet, I certainly hope the movie is about Christ's love for us and the passion with which he loved mankind, that he should bear such a burden.  The central message to Christianity is love and forgiveness - not an unjust and brutal death or the abuse he endured.

All kidding aside Joe, if those are your true feelings then do NOT see the movie.

The movie is 90% about the brutality that Jesus endured.

You guys are confusing your beliefs/history with the movie.  Two very seperate things, the movie is everything that people are complaining about.

[SPURSX3]

isnt it funny how God is a being that does NOT need to follow the rules of science in the first place and yet people try to use science to proive He exists... not to down play your post 101.  

[jn]

Where did they find time and space for shuffleboard and the brunch buffet?

The story of the flood is a great example of how the primitive mind exaggerated events and ascribed them to mystical powers.  The same effect can be seen in the barbarian Greeks interactions with the Minoan civilization, where an advanced castle and statue of a bull ended up giving us the story of Icharus and the Labyrinth and Minotaurs, and other stories.    

[WayOutWest]

SpursX3,

I'm not sure if we are agreeing or not.

Most of us here know the story about JC and the cross.  That story is NOT told in the movie.

The story told in the MOVIE is about the brutality of JC's suffering at the hands of the Romans and COMPLETELY and EXCLUSIVELY DRIVEN by the Jews.

The movie was hard to watch and the suffering that JC and his mother endured is incomprehensible but the loathing of the Jews and Romans is not.  IMO that was played up by the movie, intentional or not, the same way blacks are typically portrayed in movies.  In other words, the movie reinforced stereotypes and ill will.

[SPURSX3]

While I've not seen the movie yet, I certainly hope the movie is about Christ's love for us and the passion with which he loved mankind, that he should bear such a burden.  The central message to Christianity is love and forgiveness - not an unjust and brutal death or the abuse he endured.

All kidding aside Joe, if those are your true feelings then do NOT see the movie.

The movie is 90% about the brutality that Jesus endured.

You guys are confusing your beliefs/history with the movie.  Two very seperate things, the movie is everything that people are complaining about.

I believe i read that "passion" in its original meaning meant to some extent the trials tribulations, suffering etc one goes through.  in this case "the Passion"  that Christ went through WAS the horrible beating he endured for us.  the LOVE that people think of when using the word "passion" is thought to have come from the fact that Christ Passion was endured for his love for all mankind.  passion, apperantly, was not originally meant to mean "LOVE" but rather the prior meaning.

[SPURSX3]

SpursX3,

I'm not sure if we are agreeing or not.

Most of us here know the story about JC and the cross.  That story is NOT told in the movie.

The story told in the MOVIE is about the brutality of JC's suffering at the hands of the Romans and COMPLETELY and EXCLUSIVELY DRIVEN by the Jews.

The movie was hard to watch and the suffering that JC and his mother endured is incomprehensible but the loathing of the Jews and Romans is not.  IMO that was played up by the movie, intentional or not, the same way blacks are typically portrayed in movies.  In other words, the movie reinforced stereotypes and ill will.

i think we agree to some extent, the fact is even some jewish leaders today that saw the film say it is NOT anti semetic, but could have started making people think bad things about JEWS.  in other words saying people are stupid, they will do stupid things from this film, all of which has not happenned.  that tells me that more people get the fact that it is really not the Jews fault in this movie even if they are seen as "driving" Christ to the cross, many of the Jews in the film are screaming to STOP the torment Christ endured on his way to the cross, yet that is not even written about in reviews...

[WayOutWest]

SpursX3,

I'm not sure if we are agreeing or not.

Most of us here know the story about JC and the cross.  That story is NOT told in the movie.

The story told in the MOVIE is about the brutality of JC's suffering at the hands of the Romans and COMPLETELY and EXCLUSIVELY DRIVEN by the Jews.

The movie was hard to watch and the suffering that JC and his mother endured is incomprehensible but the loathing of the Jews and Romans is not.  IMO that was played up by the movie, intentional or not, the same way blacks are typically portrayed in movies.  In other words, the movie reinforced stereotypes and ill will.

i think we agree to some extent, the fact is even some jewish leaders today that saw the film say it is NOT anti semetic, but could have started making people think bad things about JEWS.  in other words saying people are stupid, they will do stupid things from this film, all of which has not happenned.  that tells me that more people get the fact that it is really not the Jews fault in this movie even if they are seen as "driving" Christ to the cross, many of the Jews in the film are screaming to STOP the torment Christ endured on his way to the cross, yet that is not even written about in reviews...

There is also the scene when they are condemming him in the temple where a few Jews openly complained about the trial and lunacy of the methods of conviction and evidence.  Some guys where thrown out of the temple for their protests.

It's not ALL negative but throught the movie the Jew guys with the fancy sticks are a constant negative force in the movie.

[Guest_Randy]

"There isn't a Christian in the world who would say that Jesus was killed by the Jews."


 :huh:  :huh:  :huh:  :huh:

Except for a lot of them.

BWAHAHA!

Randy has slipped away to LaLa land today.

That's like saying there isn't a Christian in the world that would kill/murder in the name of Christ!  :rolleyes:

What I was saying, and am still saying, is that while the Jews were the ones who actually put the nails in Jesus hands and feet, is that Jesus had to die for sins -- and therefore it was each person who put Jesus there, not the Jews.  Any "Christian" (and there may not be any looser term than this floating around our world today) who states that it was the Jews who are responsible for Jesus death are missing the boat.

[Joe Vancil]

All kidding aside Joe, if those are your true feelings then do NOT see the movie.

The movie is 90% about the brutality that Jesus endured.

You guys are confusing your beliefs/history with the movie. Two very seperate things, the movie is everything that people are complaining about.

Actually, WayOutWest, those feelings are the reason I *WANT* to see the movie.

Seeing what a person endured for you helps you appreciate more the love the person had for you.  A Christian doesn't ask "why" Jesus loved us - because, in truth, it doesn't matter.  The fact is that he loved us.  The brutality he went through simply shows HOW MUCH he loved us, because he did that for us.

Look at the movie from any other perspective, and all you see is a movie filled with blood and gore.  Without understanding *WHY* Jesus did this for us - without understanding his love for mankind, you're really only seeing part of the picture.

Yes, that is viewing the movie through the eyes of one's own beliefs.  Then again, that's what we do with *ANYTHING* that's historical-based.  One could even say that a good part of the story of Lord Of The Rings was the same.
 

[WayOutWest]

Actually, WayOutWest, those feelings are the reason I *WANT* to see the movie.

Seeing what a person endured for you helps you appreciate more the love the person had for you.  A Christian doesn't ask "why" Jesus loved us - because, in truth, it doesn't matter.  The fact is that he loved us.  The brutality he went through simply shows HOW MUCH he loved us, because he did that for us.

Look at the movie from any other perspective, and all you see is a movie filled with blood and gore.  Without understanding *WHY* Jesus did this for us - without understanding his love for mankind, you're really only seeing part of the picture.

Yes, that is viewing the movie through the eyes of one's own beliefs.  Then again, that's what we do with *ANYTHING* that's historical-based.  One could even say that a good part of the story of Lord Of The Rings was the same.

Joe,

The reason I posted what I did is because you posted this:

While I've not seen the movie yet, I certainly hope the movie is about Christ's love for us and the passion with which he loved mankind, that he should bear such a burden. The central message to Christianity is love and forgiveness - not an unjust and brutal death or the abuse he endured.

The movie is not about JC's love for us.  You, I and others know why JC endured what he did but the movie does NOT address that.  AGAIN, people are confusing their beliefs/teachings with the movie.  The movie is very different, I'm surprised so many are having a problem seeing that.

[Ted]

WoW, you're not listening to Joe. He said it perfectly. People who feel Jesus Christ's love look at the violence, the blood, the suffering that comprises 90 percent of the movie and they see Christ's love for them, personally.

For you, the movie may not have been about Christ's love, but for a lot of people, it is all about Christ's love. I know several people who have seen it, and they said the same thing as Joe. It is all about Christ's love. Of course, you may see it another way.

[WayOutWest]

WoW, you're not listening to Joe. He said it perfectly. People who feel Jesus Christ's love look at the violence, the blood, the suffering that comprises 90 percent of the movie and they see Christ's love for them, personally.

For you, the movie may not have been about Christ's love, but for a lot of people, it is all about Christ's love. I know several people who have seen it, and they said the same thing as Joe. It is all about Christ's love. Of course, you may see it another way.

I don't think any of you are listening.  I know what you're talking, no doubt.  What I'm saying, and what everyone continues to fail to realize, is that the movie is not about that UNLESS you're know the full story which is NOT told in the movie.

It's like watching "Return of the Jedi" without ever seeing "The Empire Strikes Back".  You wouldn't understand the movie on its own.

It's really quite simple.

[SPURSX3]

WoW, you're not listening to Joe. He said it perfectly. People who feel Jesus Christ's love look at the violence, the blood, the suffering that comprises 90 percent of the movie and they see Christ's love for them, personally.

For you, the movie may not have been about Christ's love, but for a lot of people, it is all about Christ's love. I know several people who have seen it, and they said the same thing as Joe. It is all about Christ's love. Of course, you may see it another way.

I don't think any of you are listening.  I know what you're talking, no doubt.  What I'm saying, and what everyone continues to fail to realize, is that the movie is not about that UNLESS you're know the full story which is NOT told in the movie.

It's like watching "Return of the Jedi" without ever seeing "The Empire Strikes Back".  You wouldn't understand the movie on its own.

It's really quite simple.

again if they dont know they should read the book, talk to a religious leader, etc...


man i hope there is a sequal...oh wait there IS!!