should parents be able to predetermine gender?

[jemagee]

Then again, I was raised as a jew,

Son of a b.....ANOTHER infidel!?!  Mormons, Jews...whats next NAMBLA?  WTF Dabods!  We were promised a "higher standard" around here!

Hmm...I suppose being the source for all christianity and muslim makes jews infidels, but then again, maybe if christians and then muslims hadn't corrupted judaism so badly, the world would be a better place tolive in?

Nah....

[westkoast]

I don't know....

That kind of falls under the 'playing god' area for me. 

IMO by that line of thinking, so do antibiotics.  Add to the list any and ALL forms of birth control.  It's pretty black and white IMO in regards to Christians and procreation, mastrubation is also a no-no (including Golden Girls re-run hand parties).  Not sure about the other religions. 

Not really IMO.  There is a difference between taking medication to treat an illness and something like pre-determining the gender of a child.  The later is part of creating life.  The other is not.

What about birth control?  That is playing God. 

God knows when to pull the plug so it's not for man to decide when man is playing God (i.e. Tower of Babel). 

Birth Control comes before the actual life part I am speaking about.  That is preventing conception from taking place.  The way gender is determined is during conception and that is what I see as the difference.

[Reality]

:/

I thought gaither had returned for a moment.

and she has, right?  I cant tell what your tone is.

[WayOutWest]

I don't know....

That kind of falls under the 'playing god' area for me. 

IMO by that line of thinking, so do antibiotics.  Add to the list any and ALL forms of birth control.  It's pretty black and white IMO in regards to Christians and procreation, mastrubation is also a no-no (including Golden Girls re-run hand parties).  Not sure about the other religions. 

Not really IMO.  There is a difference between taking medication to treat an illness and something like pre-determining the gender of a child.  The later is part of creating life.  The other is not.

What about birth control?  That is playing God. 

God knows when to pull the plug so it's not for man to decide when man is playing God (i.e. Tower of Babel). 

Birth Control comes before the actual life part I am speaking about.  That is preventing conception from taking place.  The way gender is determined is during conception and that is what I see as the difference.

I completely disagree, both things are trying to control life.

[WayOutWest]

:/

I thought gaither had returned for a moment.

and she has, right?  I cant tell what your tone is.

Clueless are ever!

I thought the same thing at first, I thought gaither and spurs101 were back but it was just an old thread that was bumped.

[jemagee]

Birth Control comes before the actual life part I am speaking about.  That is preventing conception from taking place.  The way gender is determined is during conception and that is what I see as the difference.

Except, and I'll say it again, what my mother did to slant the odds occured BEFORE conception, not during, she used science, humanities understading of the body and science (gained through that pesky free will thing) to try and tilt the percentage of Y based sperm headed towards the egg....that's preconception.

[westkoast]

I don't know....

That kind of falls under the 'playing god' area for me. 

IMO by that line of thinking, so do antibiotics.  Add to the list any and ALL forms of birth control.  It's pretty black and white IMO in regards to Christians and procreation, mastrubation is also a no-no (including Golden Girls re-run hand parties).  Not sure about the other religions. 

Not really IMO.  There is a difference between taking medication to treat an illness and something like pre-determining the gender of a child.  The later is part of creating life.  The other is not.

What about birth control?  That is playing God. 

God knows when to pull the plug so it's not for man to decide when man is playing God (i.e. Tower of Babel). 

Birth Control comes before the actual life part I am speaking about.  That is preventing conception from taking place.  The way gender is determined is during conception and that is what I see as the difference.

I completely disagree, both things are trying to control life.

There is no life to control at that point WOW. Unless you are saying that the person taking the birth control is controlling their own life.  There is no child at that point.

During conception life is created and the gender is determined. 

[jemagee]

There is no life to control at that point WOW. Unless you are saying that the person taking the birth control is controlling their own life.  There is no child at that point.

During conception life is created and the gender is determined. 

And there's a difference between fertilization and conception, but the whole 'birth control' controlling life thing sounds a lot like religious dogma to me, and that's wehre i get off the ride, can't rationally discuss anything with someone spouting religious dogma, it's an impossibility

[WayOutWest]

I don't know....

That kind of falls under the 'playing god' area for me. 

IMO by that line of thinking, so do antibiotics.  Add to the list any and ALL forms of birth control.  It's pretty black and white IMO in regards to Christians and procreation, mastrubation is also a no-no (including Golden Girls re-run hand parties).  Not sure about the other religions. 

Not really IMO.  There is a difference between taking medication to treat an illness and something like pre-determining the gender of a child.  The later is part of creating life.  The other is not.

What about birth control?  That is playing God. 

God knows when to pull the plug so it's not for man to decide when man is playing God (i.e. Tower of Babel). 

Birth Control comes before the actual life part I am speaking about.  That is preventing conception from taking place.  The way gender is determined is during conception and that is what I see as the difference.

I completely disagree, both things are trying to control life.

There is no life to control at that point WOW. Unless you are saying that the person taking the birth control is controlling their own life.  There is no child at that point.

During conception life is created and the gender is determined. 

Birth control prevents the conception of life, IMO more relavent than controlling gender.

Again, it's not our call to determine playing God.  God will step in and stop man if he gets to far just like he did with Adam and Eve, the Tower of Babel and Mr. Nimrod.

[WayOutWest]

There is no life to control at that point WOW. Unless you are saying that the person taking the birth control is controlling their own life.  There is no child at that point.

During conception life is created and the gender is determined. 

And there's a difference between fertilization and conception, but the whole 'birth control' controlling life thing sounds a lot like religious dogma to me, and that's wehre i get off the ride, can't rationally discuss anything with someone spouting religious dogma, it's an impossibility

I'm not religious, except when it comes to stoning infedels, but I find that most people are at least willing to have a discussion.  I just find it very odd that westkoast thinks chosing gender is playing God while ignoring that preventing life is also playing God, in fact most, religion finds mastrubation wrong because God's purpose for sex is procreation.  When you are having sex for any reason other than procreation you are disobeying God.

Ted?

[westkoast]

There is no life to control at that point WOW. Unless you are saying that the person taking the birth control is controlling their own life.  There is no child at that point.

During conception life is created and the gender is determined. 

And there's a difference between fertilization and conception, but the whole 'birth control' controlling life thing sounds a lot like religious dogma to me, and that's wehre i get off the ride, can't rationally discuss anything with someone spouting religious dogma, it's an impossibility

I'm not religious, except when it comes to stoning infedels, but I find that most people are at least willing to have a discussion.  I just find it very odd that westkoast thinks chosing gender is playing God while ignoring that preventing life is also playing God, in fact most, religion finds mastrubation wrong because God's purpose for sex is procreation.  When you are having sex for any reason other than procreation you are disobeying God.

Ted?

Are you a scientologist or something?  Do you believe that any type of medical treatment is playing god?  That only prayer should be used to take care of things?

[Reality]

When you are having sex for any reason other than procreation you are disobeying God.  

Man made dogma.  Never ever was part of Gods purpose to deprive Adam and Eve nor modern day man and wife to abstain.

Bible encourages sex between man and wife.  In fact "Do not be depriving each other of it, except by mutual consent for an appointed time."  For the full context of this, see 1st Cor 7 vs 2-5.  It's obvious what "it" is.

Also Provs Chapter 5 vs's 15-20.  Guess what water source and springs is symbolic for.
15 Drink water out of your own cistern, and tricklings out of the midst of your own well. 16 Should your springs be scattered out of doors, [your] streams of water in the public squares themselves? 17 Let them prove to be for you alone, and not for strangers with you. 18 Let your water source prove to be blessed, and rejoice with the wife of your youth, 19 a lovable hind and a charming mountain goat. Let her own breasts intoxicate you at all times. With her love may you be in an ecstasy constantly. 20 So why should you, my son, be in an ecstasy with a strange woman or embrace the bosom of a foreign woman?  

[Reality]

^^ Yet he also purposed that if a child was born, it would have mother and father to love and nurture it into adulthood.  If  finances, etc dictate that no way can a couple have endless children, then of course birth control can be used with Gods approval.  As to the kind that kills the embryo, the bible calls life as beggining at conception, so find one that prevents conception not "kills" afterwords.

[WayOutWest]

Are you a scientologist or something?  Do you believe that any type of medical treatment is playing god?  That only prayer should be used to take care of things?

Stop being stupid!  MAN CAN NOT PLAY GOD BECAUSE GOD WILL NOT ALLOW IT.  King Nimrod is so appropriate here!  Look up Nimrod and the Tower of Babel.

As far as my religious beliefs, I believe that is my buisness and not anyone elses!  BUT, if you must know I am kinda like Ricky Bobby...."Help me baby Jesus!  Help me Jewish God!  Help me Tom Cruise!"  You could even say I am like that guy in "The Mummy" who had 50+ religious artifacts around his neck and when confronted by death at the hands of the Mummy he tried each one until he was "saved".  

[WayOutWest]

When you are having sex for any reason other than procreation you are disobeying God.  

Man made dogma.

Tell that to the Catholics!