Author Topic: So Vanessa Bryant was behind the Karl/Kobe beef?  (Read 6846 times)

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So Vanessa Bryant was behind the Karl/Kobe beef?
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2004, 01:31:39 PM »
LOL @ Shaq allows players to grow......yes, just as long as they bow down to The Diesel when he speaks.  He had a problem with Kobe off the bat, he had a problem with Penny, I wouldnt be suprised if he develops a problem with Wade if Wade feels he has been pulling a good amount of weight with Shaq.

Offline WayOutWest

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So Vanessa Bryant was behind the Karl/Kobe beef?
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2004, 01:42:54 PM »
JoMal,

Wonder if they made up or the divorce process takes this long  :D  :

http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2002/0107/1307442.html

I was not a fan of the trade BUT given the choice between Kobe and Shaq, I would have chosen Kobe as well, I still would.  I think Shaq would have come into 2004 in shape for Karl and GP but since the post-near-finals-sweep fiasco that was not going to happen.  Shaq is still one of my favorite players but I'm not kidding myself in thinking he had many years left in him as a Laker.  If Shaq got one more title he would have blown up in weight like he did before and become a huge burden on the Lakers in two years.  Unlike every other club in the NBA, the Lakers don't go into the toilet after making title runs, knock on wood.  Post Magic, they missed the playoffs only one year, by only 2 games I think.

I couldn't believe how the Lakers fell apart after the finals, I was sure they would make another run with only the Spurs standing in their way.  The Pistons were lucky to win the title last year, key injuries to Kidd then JO/Artest then Malone allowed them to squeek one out, no way they repeat, although with the Indiana situation they may make it back to the NBA finals, I didn't think they would get past the Pacers.  So I figured it would be the Lakers and Spurs again.

Kobe has had problems with his teammates since day one.  Fisher and EJ were the only guys who didn't want to strangle him, at least that's what Fisher said.  Kobe's made some bad choices the past year and it's really hurt the Lakers, I hope he turns it around because he's the most talented 2 guard I've ever seen, but he's pretty far from the best right now.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2004, 01:43:38 PM by WayOutWest »
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
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Offline JoMal

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So Vanessa Bryant was behind the Karl/Kobe beef?
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2004, 03:13:37 PM »
Other players bowing down to Shaq? Why not? He was the reason the Lakers demanded and got respect, other then Jackson. Shaq demanding more money? Why not? See above. Shaq being out of shape? For 27 million a year, you would certainly expect more effort on his part to be there all 82 games and the playoffs, but Jackson does not come to LA to coach without him already being there, and LA does NOT get three championship rings. Did he help his teammates to be better? How could he not simply by being on their team.

But Kobe.....
 
Kobe getting the ball to teammates, like Mihm? Congratulations on recognizing that Bryant is a great basketball player who can do wonderous things on a basketball court. But I have seen lots and lots of players in the NBA distribute the ball to teammates without letting them, and you, their loyals fans, know he was responsible for them being there to receive the pass, somehow.

So let Kobe "lead" his Laker teammates to the basketball trough so they can drink from the communal cup of glorious satisfaction by being given the golden opportunity to receive a magnanimous pass from the "Golden Child". Just do NOT ask him to lead his teammates out of the tunnel. Do NOT ask him to support his teammates as being anything more then "HIS" supporting cast. Do NOT expect him to refer to 'our' effort resulted in a win, or 'he' did not do enough to win a game.

Shaq never was a "leader", per se, and never will be. Not by setting an example. But he has never been a nuisance off the court except with Kobe. He has maintained a lifestyle of glamor without the off-court Koap Opera high jinx associated with the current Laker "leader".

Jordan is by no means a saint. But his endorsement deals never suffered due to him being accused of rape. He and his wife reconciled, and their life has gone on to be pretty good. Jordan had the respect of his teammates at all times because he never was handed a championship early in his NBA career, but had to suffer some life experience that earned him the respect and natural camaraderie that comes with growing up. He was given the leadership of his team as a natural process that evolved with Chicago's growth.

Bryant got rid of Shaq, Jackson, Payton, Malone, maybe even West - everyone else who stood between his self-appointment as the de facto leader of the Lakers.

That isn't a leader. That is a megalomaniac. So give him a huge contract to justify in his own mind how much more worthy he is then everyone else and show him he has the power to form his own world on the Laker court.

These things never occurred when West was still there. I see a connection.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2004, 03:14:03 PM by JoMal »
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

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So Vanessa Bryant was behind the Karl/Kobe beef?
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2004, 03:37:42 PM »
Quote
JoMal,

Wonder if they made up or the divorce process takes this long  :D  :

http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2002/0107/1307442.html
Your link is old:

They're still married.

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So Vanessa Bryant was behind the Karl/Kobe beef?
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2004, 04:12:12 PM »
Quote
Other players bowing down to Shaq? Why not? He was the reason the Lakers demanded and got respect, other then Jackson. Shaq demanding more money? Why not? See above. Shaq being out of shape? For 27 million a year, you would certainly expect more effort on his part to be there all 82 games and the playoffs, but Jackson does not come to LA to coach without him already being there, and LA does NOT get three championship rings. Did he help his teammates to be better? How could he not simply by being on their team.

But Kobe.....
 
Kobe getting the ball to teammates, like Mihm? Congratulations on recognizing that Bryant is a great basketball player who can do wonderous things on a basketball court. But I have seen lots and lots of players in the NBA distribute the ball to teammates without letting them, and you, their loyals fans, know he was responsible for them being there to receive the pass, somehow.

So let Kobe "lead" his Laker teammates to the basketball trough so they can drink from the communal cup of glorious satisfaction by being given the golden opportunity to receive a magnanimous pass from the "Golden Child". Just do NOT ask him to lead his teammates out of the tunnel. Do NOT ask him to support his teammates as being anything more then "HIS" supporting cast. Do NOT expect him to refer to 'our' effort resulted in a win, or 'he' did not do enough to win a game.

Shaq never was a "leader", per se, and never will be. Not by setting an example. But he has never been a nuisance off the court except with Kobe. He has maintained a lifestyle of glamor without the off-court Koap Opera high jinx associated with the current Laker "leader".

Jordan is by no means a saint. But his endorsement deals never suffered due to him being accused of rape. He and his wife reconciled, and their life has gone on to be pretty good. Jordan had the respect of his teammates at all times because he never was handed a championship early in his NBA career, but had to suffer some life experience that earned him the respect and natural camaraderie that comes with growing up. He was given the leadership of his team as a natural process that evolved with Chicago's growth.

Bryant got rid of Shaq, Jackson, Payton, Malone, maybe even West - everyone else who stood between his self-appointment as the de facto leader of the Lakers.

That isn't a leader. That is a megalomaniac. So give him a huge contract to justify in his own mind how much more worthy he is then everyone else and show him he has the power to form his own world on the Laker court.

These things never occurred when West was still there. I see a connection.
JoMaL this is nice and all but we are not talking about the past and what he did before.  We know what he did before.  Shaq's stock, his ability to continue to play at a high level for 3 more years, the money he wanted, and his motivation is what we were questioning.  Did Shaq deserve more money? No he did not.  He did not pull most of the load last year.  In fact in games he should have completely dominated, he didnt.  Kobe bailed the Lakers out of loosing to the Wolves when Shaq was guarded by Olawakandi.   Would Shaq have stepped his game up because he got more money? Probably not.  His ego still is the very largest in the league.....he believes he doesnt need to work harder but since he is Shaq he deserves more money no matter what.  He went as far to insulting the owner thinking since he is Shaq he can do whatever he wants and still get the raise.

As for what you are saying about Kobe.  Not a single time in an after game interview or any interview this year has he even done anything remotely close to what you are saying.  Dunno where you got that from.  Is this what Kobe does or is this what JoMaL assumes of Kobe?  Each time I hear him talk when he has a big game in assists he talks about how well the team shot and how they were able to get to the right positions.  Caron Butler and Chris Mihm both have said that Kobe has done nothing but help them improve their game.  Rudy T said that Kobe called team meetings and will sit and work his tail off even after practive is over.   Heck, his former teammate, Karl Malone, they were hanging out and doing things for each other.  This is exactly what I am talking about, you guys do make things up and hold them to be true.

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So Vanessa Bryant was behind the Karl/Kobe beef?
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2004, 04:18:12 PM »
Ahh more thing......West left because of stress and health reasons. Shaq left because Buss wanted him to go.  Payton was dealt because of his disapearing act in the playoffs and the funny business he was trying to pull with his contract in the off-season.  Malone isnt playing because of a rift between him and Kobe......but to say it was only Kobe's fault is not true.  Not even Phil Jackson left because of just Kobe.  He left because Shaq left.  Im sure Kobe was a factor but not like you think.  PJ too was tired of basketball and was looking to only coach again if it was to get his 10th ring.

Honestly, this is getting out of hand with some of you.  I too agree Kobe has major issues off the court and is a pre-madonna.  The degree you are taking it to is over the top to say the least.  Most of what you mentioned is what you made up and hold to be true.

Offline WayOutWest

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So Vanessa Bryant was behind the Karl/Kobe beef?
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2004, 05:05:57 PM »
Quote
Your link is old:
 
So is your response and your wits.  :rofl:

"Wonder if they made up or the divorce process takes this long  :D :"

DUH!
 
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline JoMal

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So Vanessa Bryant was behind the Karl/Kobe beef?
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2004, 06:14:56 PM »
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Ahh more thing......West left because of stress and health reasons. Shaq left because Buss wanted him to go.  Payton was dealt because of his disapearing act in the playoffs and the funny business he was trying to pull with his contract in the off-season.  Malone isnt playing because of a rift between him and Kobe......but to say it was only Kobe's fault is not true.  Not even Phil Jackson left because of just Kobe.  He left because Shaq left.  Im sure Kobe was a factor but not like you think.  PJ too was tired of basketball and was looking to only coach again if it was to get his 10th ring.

Honestly, this is getting out of hand with some of you.  I too agree Kobe has major issues off the court and is a pre-madonna.  The degree you are taking it to is over the top to say the least.  Most of what you mentioned is what you made up and hold to be true.
"West left because of stress and health reasons." :cripple:

You don't leave the team you love to GM another, lesser, team because it is less stressful and will improve your health. You don't go to a team where the next errant Jason Williams' pass may lead to a lawsuit by the pregnant fan in the first row who just got hit in the lap by the basketball if the quiet country life is what you need. He did not like how things were turning out in Los Angeles with his team and his opinions were being ignored by his star player and his boss, who completely supported the star player.

Well, now Buss has got him, come hell or high water, and that water is rising fast.

Buss and Jackson differed over which superstar they should keep. By his own admittance, as you well know, Phil would have continued coaching the Lakers if Shaq had stayed instead of Kobe. Does that tell you anything about what Jackson viewed as the potential leadership void he expected if he had stayed to coach a Bryant-led Laker team into this season? Did he really want to kowtow to a 26 year old who did not have enough life experiences to muster the arrogance possessed by Bryant, just because his contract said he should? He knew better then to step on THAT land mine.

Frankly, I just do not believe what Kobe's teammates may or may not be saying about being the kid's teammate. What are they going to say, that it is hell to come to work, that their personnal expectations have to be shelved to accommodate the resident prima donna? Sure, guys like Butler and Mihm look better and may, in fact, be playing better with Kobe on the floor with them. But stories of dissatisfaction keep popping up about the behind-the-scene conflicts to the point where few in the NBA anticipate an abundance of interest from free agents in the next few years beating down the doors to sign with the Lakers.

Who in their right mind would want to follow Payton and Malone, who gave up so much to sign there, and have everything they say or do magnified by a media already primed to pick it all apart because of your wonder kid's constant verbage and headline catching actions? These guys already were superstars elsewhere, so they could expect the scrutiny. But Butler and Mihm? Come on!!!! Are they likely to say anything at all to rock the fragile boat that they are sitting in these days?


Nah.. Only if you could catch them  :drunk: or in a :moon: position, or emotionally  :fire: up. They know quite well they are very expendable if Payton and Malone could not stay around even though they sacrificed so much to try to.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2004, 06:17:41 PM by JoMal »
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

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So Vanessa Bryant was behind the Karl/Kobe beef?
« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2004, 06:37:50 PM »
Quote
Quote
Ahh more thing......West left because of stress and health reasons. Shaq left because Buss wanted him to go.  Payton was dealt because of his disapearing act in the playoffs and the funny business he was trying to pull with his contract in the off-season.  Malone isnt playing because of a rift between him and Kobe......but to say it was only Kobe's fault is not true.  Not even Phil Jackson left because of just Kobe.  He left because Shaq left.  Im sure Kobe was a factor but not like you think.  PJ too was tired of basketball and was looking to only coach again if it was to get his 10th ring.

Honestly, this is getting out of hand with some of you.  I too agree Kobe has major issues off the court and is a pre-madonna.  The degree you are taking it to is over the top to say the least.  Most of what you mentioned is what you made up and hold to be true.
"West left because of stress and health reasons." :cripple:

You don't leave the team you love to GM another, lesser, team because it is less stressful and will improve your health. You don't go to a team where the next errant Jason Williams' pass may lead to a lawsuit by the pregnant fan in the first row who just got hit in the lap by the basketball if the quiet country life is what you need. He did not like how things were turning out in Los Angeles with his team and his opinions were being ignored by his star player and his boss, who completely supported the star player.

Well, now Buss has got him, come hell or high water, and that water is rising fast.

Buss and Jackson differed over which superstar they should keep. By his own admittance, as you well know, Phil would have continued coaching the Lakers if Shaq had stayed instead of Kobe. Does that tell you anything about what Jackson viewed as the potential leadership void he expected if he had stayed to coach a Bryant-led Laker team into this season? Did he really want to kowtow to a 26 year old who did not have enough life experiences to muster the arrogance possessed by Bryant, just because his contract said he should? He knew better then to step on THAT land mine.

Frankly, I just do not believe what Kobe's teammates may or may not be saying about being the kid's teammate. What are they going to say, that it is hell to come to work, that their personnal expectations have to be shelved to accommodate the resident prima donna? Sure, guys like Butler and Mihm look better and may, in fact, be playing better with Kobe on the floor with them. But stories of dissatisfaction keep popping up about the behind-the-scene conflicts to the point where few in the NBA anticipate an abundance of interest from free agents in the next few years beating down the doors to sign with the Lakers.

Who in their right mind would want to follow Payton and Malone, who gave up so much to sign there, and have everything they say or do magnified by a media already primed to pick it all apart because of your wonder kid's constant verbage and headline catching actions? These guys already were superstars elsewhere, so they could expect the scrutiny. But Butler and Mihm? Come on!!!! Are they likely to say anything at all to rock the fragile boat that they are sitting in these days?


Nah.. Only if you could catch them  :drunk: or in a :moon: position, or emotionally  :fire: up. They know quite well they are very expendable if Payton and Malone could not stay around even though they sacrificed so much to try to.
Was it Kobe's arrogance, as you are assuming, or was it the fact that Kobe can be guarded but Shaq cannot?

Was it Kobe's lack of life expierences which you say would affect his leadership, or was it the fact that the triangle is made for a player like Shaq?

Was it only Kobe's fault PJ didnt come back or did it have something to do with PJ knowing damn well this team would not win a championship right away so he could beat out Red?

Was it a huge loss to the Pistons that made everyone sour or was it just Kobe?



JoMaL you can believe what you want.  I'm not telling you what to think.  What I am telling you is that you are assuming things based on what you've read online.  I'm basing what I'm saying off of watching every single Laker game and interviews.  You can think they dont want to go to work.  You can be pessimistic and believe that everything is negative.  That is your deal.  If players are saying one thing THEY MUST be lying.  If Kobe is saying the exact opposite of you think he says in interviews then HE MUST be putting on a front for the camera.  Really its only loose loose with you.  Where this stems from, im not sure.  Kinda wondering why both you and Spursx3 both have made things up based on seeing the Lakers play 1 time and not hearing a single after-game interview with anyone connected with this team.  That includes Jerry Buss, Rudy T, and various players.



Again Malone and Kobe were friends.  Malone isnt going to sign with the Lakers because of his own comments as much as it was Kobe's comments.  Of course you having some problem with Kobe cannot see that.

Payton was not sent away because of Kobe, again this is you making things up.  Payton was sent away because he was a non-factor in the playoffs outside of 2 games with the Spurs.  On top of that he was trying to jerk the Lakers for money in the off-season.  Lakers felt they could move him and get something.....they got Mihm.  A player who is doing quite well for this team right now.  Did you watch the playoffs at all last year?  Did you come to post on this board as everyone was commenting on how poor Gary Payton was playing?  Or do you suffer from selective memory :lol:

As for them speaking out......I guess this only applies to Kobe and not Shaq.  Shaq never would be a pre-madonna, boss players around, frustrate fellow players, or anything of that nature.  You dont think the same players wouldnt make a comment about Shaq out of fear of being sent away?  Did you know that many Lakers were interviewed about the Kobe/Shaq rift over the past 4 years and many of them said they BOTH need to cool it?

 

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So Vanessa Bryant was behind the Karl/Kobe beef?
« Reply #39 on: December 14, 2004, 06:43:28 PM »
And uhh JoMaL....being the GM of a team with a rich history that is use to winning that happens to reside inside of the media capital of the world isnt more stressfull than being in Memphis overlooking a team that is expected to do nothing?  Having to re-create success you've had for 20 years over and over isnt more stressfull than wondering what you want to do with your top pick?  Having the public eye constantly on you because you are Mr. Laker isnt more stressfull than just being a regular GM for a sub par team?  Living in the middle of tinsel town where everyone know everyone and you cant as much as fart in LA without people buzzing isnt more stressfull than owning a HUGE estate in the middle of the country side?

Im convinced you are baiting me because there is no way in hell you believe half the crap you are spewing.

Offline JoMal

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So Vanessa Bryant was behind the Karl/Kobe beef?
« Reply #40 on: December 14, 2004, 07:51:25 PM »
Quote
Im convinced you are baiting me because there is no way in hell you believe half the crap you are spewing.
 :D

So I get bored with the same old stuff sometimes. You can't say it didn't get you all worked up anyway, did it?

Frankly, I get a bit of joy out of taking a weird tact once in a while and see where it goes. These posting boards can be very trying to read through sometimes.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

guest-koast

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So Vanessa Bryant was behind the Karl/Kobe beef?
« Reply #41 on: December 14, 2004, 09:35:24 PM »
Quote
Quote
Im convinced you are baiting me because there is no way in hell you believe half the crap you are spewing.
:D

So I get bored with the same old stuff sometimes. You can't say it didn't get you all worked up anyway, did it?

Frankly, I get a bit of joy out of taking a weird tact once in a while and see where it goes. These posting boards can be very trying to read through sometimes.
::shakes head::

Usually I am the one doing the baiting.  I guess what goes around comes around.

 :up:   I wasnt pissed just couldn't believe that you of all people were typing that.  That's like Joe Vancil threatning to show up at a posters house and whoop the crap out of em.

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So Vanessa Bryant was behind the Karl/Kobe beef?
« Reply #42 on: December 14, 2004, 09:35:55 PM »
Quote
Quote
Im convinced you are baiting me because there is no way in hell you believe half the crap you are spewing.
:D

So I get bored with the same old stuff sometimes. You can't say it didn't get you all worked up anyway, did it?

Frankly, I get a bit of joy out of taking a weird tact once in a while and see where it goes. These posting boards can be very trying to read through sometimes.
yeah, it's not like the Kings are bitter or anything right Jomal?  lol.

 :rofl:  :moon:

I don't think we really need to make a huge string like this when we all know that Kobe's legacy will never match up to MJ's now...  :nod:   man it will great to see Shaq take it to that dirty little anal rapist when Miami takes on LA... :eek2:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  

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So Vanessa Bryant was behind the Karl/Kobe beef?
« Reply #43 on: December 14, 2004, 09:37:45 PM »
Quote
Quote
Quote
Im convinced you are baiting me because there is no way in hell you believe half the crap you are spewing.
:D

So I get bored with the same old stuff sometimes. You can't say it didn't get you all worked up anyway, did it?

Frankly, I get a bit of joy out of taking a weird tact once in a while and see where it goes. These posting boards can be very trying to read through sometimes.
::shakes head::

Usually I am the one doing the baiting.  I guess what goes around comes around.

 :up:   I wasnt pissed just couldn't believe that you of all people were typing that.  That's like Joe Vancil threatning to show up at a posters house and whoop the crap out of em.
umm  wk, just saying the lakers suck this year was enough to bait the lot of you.

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So Vanessa Bryant was behind the Karl/Kobe beef?
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2004, 09:59:20 AM »
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Im convinced you are baiting me because there is no way in hell you believe half the crap you are spewing.
:D

So I get bored with the same old stuff sometimes. You can't say it didn't get you all worked up anyway, did it?

Frankly, I get a bit of joy out of taking a weird tact once in a while and see where it goes. These posting boards can be very trying to read through sometimes.
::shakes head::

Usually I am the one doing the baiting.  I guess what goes around comes around.

 :up:   I wasnt pissed just couldn't believe that you of all people were typing that.  That's like Joe Vancil threatning to show up at a posters house and whoop the crap out of em.
umm  wk, just saying the lakers suck this year was enough to bait the lot of you.
You dont get to play the bait card.  You actually believed what you were saying after seeing them play one time.  JoMaL on the other hand made it pretty obvious he was baiting in the last post.