Malone IS NOT returning to Lake-show hes PISSED

[jn]

A googleplex would not be enough to make me believe it.    :cheers:

Is there any doubt in your mind, any doubt whatsoever, that Kobe wants to prove he was as much or more a factor in the Lakers success as Shaq and Phil?  

[Guest_WayOutWest]

A googleplex would not be enough to make me believe it.    :cheers:

Is there any doubt in your mind, any doubt whatsoever, that Kobe wants to prove he was as much or more a factor in the Lakers success as Shaq and Phil?

IMO, you need to take a Jr. High School debating course.  :crazy:  

[Guest_Randy]

A googleplex would not be enough to make me believe it.    :cheers:

Is there any doubt in your mind, any doubt whatsoever, that Kobe wants to prove he was as much or more a factor in the Lakers success as Shaq and Phil?

Who said Kobe didn't want to prove himself?  You really think Buss made this ENTIRE decision based totally on what Kobe wanted?  Buss cares a WHOLE lot more about his pocketbook than he does about Kobe.  Superstars in LA come and go but Buss' pocketbook lives forever!!!

Kobe was definately a factor here -- but man, stop and look at how much money Shaq wanted a year -- esp. in light of the shape he was in during the last two seasons.  A healthy Shaq dominating in the post is WORTH $20 mill a year -- but a Shaq like the one the Lakers have had the past two years ISN'T worth $20 mill a year.  I would rather see the Lakers rebuild than pay Shaq $20+ a year for being out-of-shape and then retiring.  And I wouldn't think it takes a rocket scientist to see that -- it's pretty smart when you think of your team both in the present and in the future.  

[westkoast]

A googleplex would not be enough to make me believe it.    :cheers:

Is there any doubt in your mind, any doubt whatsoever, that Kobe wants to prove he was as much or more a factor in the Lakers success as Shaq and Phil?

There is no doubt in my mind that he wanted to test the waters solo.  I think anyone with that amount of talent and that media hype would want to really test themselves and prove something.  People with high competitive drives love to be put in situations like that.  Even us here on the board were contributors to that.  I always pose this same question when this is brought up.  If you were at work and you worked hard, spent ALOT of time perfecting your craft on your own time, and were a key contributor.......but a co-worker was constantly putting you down and pretending like he does all the work would you not be mad?  I know I certainly would.

That being said, its a no brainer business move from an owner/front office stand point.  Shaq wanted to make even more money for a few more years.   This year would have been fine.  What about 2-3 years down the line?  He is getting older, he is a large man, and he has had injury problems over the past 3 years.  His stock would only continue to drop.  2007 the Lakers WOULD NOT have got players like Odom, Butler, and Grant for Shaq.  On top of that, Jerry Buss was interviewed during half time of a game not to long ago and said he wanted to see a faster, uptempo, younger team.  That's what he wanted to see once he realized this team's formula was no long going to work as well as it did during the threepeat years.    When asked what he likes about this team he said 'Alot of the guys are around 25 years old, they are only going to continue to improve'  Teams that wait till the last minute to rebuild end up like the Chicago Bulls.

Did Kobe put in his two cents?  Yes, he is a star player on the squad so I know he was asked.  Was Kobe the sole reason why Shaq left?  No he wasnt.  Some of it was a business move, some of it was Shaq running his mouth to Jerry like he's the boss, owner,gm, and star player and some of it probably was input from Kobe.  IMO its a no brainer to deal him, I would have waited till after this season but Shaq wanted the contract or a new team.  Shaq gave the ultimatum.  Jerry responded and decided to rebuild around Kobe now and get players rather than wait till Shaq was a spin move away from retirement.

[jn]

I got an A in my 9th grade debate class taught by a guy who coached 4 MN State and 2 National Championship debaters.   :up: Really.

Randy you are correct. I exaggerate when I say he "ran them off."   I just think after all the revelations about Kobe's isolation from teammates and his mulishness about listening to coaches and PARTICULARLY his dragging the Daddy's name up to police this summer puts this quote in a different light.  

"Hey this the guy that dragged Shaq's name through the mud to police.  I'm gonna bust my butt for him!"
 

[jn]

P.S.  I think the whole idea of guys signing with a particular team or playing hard to please a particular teammate is a bit overblown anyway.  What's more likely to make a fringe player play hard, the prospect of pleasing a superstar who already makes 5 times as much money as you or the prospect of having to play in Turkey?

I'm sure a lot of Spurs love playing with TD but they also have plenty of other reasons to hustle.  

[Guest_Randy]

I got an A in my 9th grade debate class taught by a guy who coached 4 MN State and 2 National Championship debaters.   :up: Really.

Randy you are correct. I exaggerate when I say he "ran them off."   I just think after all the revelations about Kobe's isolation from teammates and his mulishness about listening to coaches and PARTICULARLY his dragging the Daddy's name up to police this summer puts this quote in a different light.  

"Hey this the guy that dragged Shaq's name through the mud to police.  I'm gonna bust my butt for him!"

Jn,

I like Kobe as a player -- most of the time, anyway.  However, I think it's tough for anyone to be under the kind of microscope that he has been and not look like a jerk.  And Kobe doesn't really NEED any help looking like a jerk -- he has done that often enough on his own.  I don't know what happened with Shaq and women but it is pretty stupid to mention his name specifically to cops -- like that is going to help anyone.  Kobe ought to be pretty scared, now that I think about it, because of what Carmelo Anthony and his crew will do to people who squeal.  Kobe is an incredibly selfish individual -- it's pretty common for players who have been given anything they want for years and years and years to come to the place where they begin to believe it.  I remember reading an article a long time ago about how pizza delivery people didn't want to deliver to KG because he wouldn't ever give them a tip.  Athletes are a pretty spoiled group of individuals -- from the pros down to the high school level.  Our local football team went to state this year -- they did so with a guy at RB who hardly ever attended practices and never hit the weight room.  Why?  Because he doesn't need to -- he's the star.  He knows that if he misses a weeks of practices that he will still start that week.  Pretty sad, IMO.  

What I find most interesting about the stupid comments that Kobe made about Karl is the way that Karl talked about him and supported him last year through everything Kobe went through.  Karl was incredibly supportive and a friend to Kobe -- this just isn't the way you treat friends.
 

[Joe Vancil]

Okay, here's my take:

Malone always made up with Larry Miller - true.  Malone made up with Larry Miller because ultimately, Karl Malone created most of the situations with Miller in an effort to stir his team up and spur them to action.  Just as Jerry Sloan was a disciplinarian and represented "authority", Malone relished playing the role of the "anarchist" trying to get players on his page - which, coincidentally, was exactly the same as Sloan's.  It was divide and conquer in the clubhouse; if Sloan didn't reach you, Malone did.  Last year, it was the same thing with the Lakers - Phil Jackson beats up on you, and Malone takes up for you - all to get everyone back on the same page.  THAT'S WHAT MALONE DOES.

Didn't everyone else wonder why the ONLY time Malone ever griped about anything in Utah was when they'd lost 3 of 4, or when it was coming up on training camp?  "If you don't work hard, then I'm leaving!"

Secondly, Malone always made up with Larry Miller because Larry Miller treated Malone with respect and reverence - right up until his last season in Utah.

Malone's not about to lift a finger to make up with Kobe, because as Malone sees it, he's trying to get healthy and fit, first - especially knowing how Kobe blasted Shaq for fitness.  He's not PLAYING, but he's working for the team.  Kobe treated him as an outsider - not entirely undeservedly, but still disrespectful.

Malone isn't going to San An.  He's not going to Minnesota.  He's not going to Dallas.  KARL MALONE IS GOING TO MIAMI.  He's just still waiting to see what kind of coach Stan Van Gundy is going to be.  Malone going to Miami automatically has a starting job.  Malone going to Miami automatically has a teammate that respects him.  But Malone isn't going to jump on the Miami bandwagon quickly.

The only other place Malone might have gone was Houston, however Houston's rocky start didn't bode well for the Rockets.  

If you ask me, Malone is waiting on a phone call right now;  from Shaq, from Kobe...FROM A TEAMMATE OR POTENTIAL TEAMMATE.  Realize that this is only his second year without Stockton - a teammate who said "If you want to be successful at point on the Jazz, you get the ball to Karl Malone."  Karl's looking for the personal touch...the sign that pride is there, but ego isn't.  Karl needs to be wooed;  his own pride won't let him be a "hired gun."

This is the perfect guy for Miami, too.  A person to rattle defenders on Dwyane Wade, a co-worker on the inside for Shaq, and a bit of energy and passion to folks like Eddie Jones.  With Malone added to the mix, I don't think Miami is all that far from being a championship team.

 

[SPURSX3]

Okay, here's my take:

Malone always made up with Larry Miller - true.  Malone made up with Larry Miller because ultimately, Karl Malone created most of the situations with Miller in an effort to stir his team up and spur them to action.  Just as Jerry Sloan was a disciplinarian and represented "authority", Malone relished playing the role of the "anarchist" trying to get players on his page - which, coincidentally, was exactly the same as Sloan's.  It was divide and conquer in the clubhouse; if Sloan didn't reach you, Malone did.  Last year, it was the same thing with the Lakers - Phil Jackson beats up on you, and Malone takes up for you - all to get everyone back on the same page.  THAT'S WHAT MALONE DOES.

Didn't everyone else wonder why the ONLY time Malone ever griped about anything in Utah was when they'd lost 3 of 4, or when it was coming up on training camp?  "If you don't work hard, then I'm leaving!"

Secondly, Malone always made up with Larry Miller because Larry Miller treated Malone with respect and reverence - right up until his last season in Utah.

Malone's not about to lift a finger to make up with Kobe, because as Malone sees it, he's trying to get healthy and fit, first - especially knowing how Kobe blasted Shaq for fitness.  He's not PLAYING, but he's working for the team.  Kobe treated him as an outsider - not entirely undeservedly, but still disrespectful.

Malone isn't going to San An.  He's not going to Minnesota.  He's not going to Dallas.  KARL MALONE IS GOING TO MIAMI.  He's just still waiting to see what kind of coach Stan Van Gundy is going to be.  Malone going to Miami automatically has a starting job.  Malone going to Miami automatically has a teammate that respects him.  But Malone isn't going to jump on the Miami bandwagon quickly.

The only other place Malone might have gone was Houston, however Houston's rocky start didn't bode well for the Rockets.  

If you ask me, Malone is waiting on a phone call right now;  from Shaq, from Kobe...FROM A TEAMMATE OR POTENTIAL TEAMMATE.  Realize that this is only his second year without Stockton - a teammate who said "If you want to be successful at point on the Jazz, you get the ball to Karl Malone."  Karl's looking for the personal touch...the sign that pride is there, but ego isn't.  Karl needs to be wooed;  his own pride won't let him be a "hired gun."

This is the perfect guy for Miami, too.  A person to rattle defenders on Dwyane Wade, a co-worker on the inside for Shaq, and a bit of energy and passion to folks like Eddie Jones.  With Malone added to the mix, I don't think Miami is all that far from being a championship team.

MIAMI?  he  may as well retire than , becuase miami is NOT winning the title this year.  If he wanted to atleast go out a champion he would look to either SA or MN.

the only good thing about being in the east is he and shaq and wade could roll over a lot of teams there - they still need to face the west in the end and i dont see either SA or MN losing to Miami of all teams in a series...

[WayOutWest]

MIAMI?  he  may as well retire than , becuase miami is NOT winning the title this year.  If he wanted to atleast go out a champion he would look to either SA or MN.

the only good thing about being in the east is he and shaq and wade could roll over a lot of teams there - they still need to face the west in the end and i dont see either SA or MN losing to Miami of all teams in a series...

Miami in the finals against ANYONE from the West is not a done deal.  SA is not what is once was with Robinson and I could see Miami winning it all with Malone on board.  Miami's starters would be just as good, if not better than SA but their bench is where Miami would faulter.  

Don't bet against Miami with the Diesel powering the Mailman's wagon.

[westkoast]

MIAMI?  he  may as well retire than , becuase miami is NOT winning the title this year.  If he wanted to atleast go out a champion he would look to either SA or MN.

the only good thing about being in the east is he and shaq and wade could roll over a lot of teams there - they still need to face the west in the end and i dont see either SA or MN losing to Miami of all teams in a series...

Miami in the finals against ANYONE from the West is not a done deal.  SA is not what is once was with Robinson and I could see Miami winning it all with Malone on board.  Miami's starters would be just as good, if not better than SA but their bench is where Miami would faulter.  

Don't bet against Miami with the Diesel powering the Mailman's wagon.

If Malone goes to Miami I will retract my statement about them not getting out of the East.  I think we all saw what Malone can do and he is no slouch when it comes to working.  The guy actually cuts down trees and farms FOR FUN!  Wade, Malone, Jones, Shaq?  No one can say that they would be 100% confident that their team could beat Miami with that lineup.  Not even the two very blind Spurs fans on the board.

Give Kobe till the end of this week to give Karl a call.  Karl is all over LA and Orange County.  Im sure he is pretty easy to get ahold of.  Every big event we happen to have out here Karl is there.  I seen him at an Angel game last year and seen em at a frickin monster truck rally.  I dont know if they will work things out but Im sure he will at least get a call.

[Guest]

Malone could fit in with the Wolves, but they are at nearly 70 million in payroll. It would have to be a tight fit and Malone did his pay cut soap box last year. Don't expect him to do the same this year.

With only 44 million in salary this year, San Antonio could surely work out a deal to sign Karl. But where would he play? It would necessitate benching Nesterovic, who is making over 6 million. The fit could be tough there, is all.

Miami has no viable power forward. Hello, Karl!!!! With a 53 million payroll, they could sign him.

But the Lakers, even with a 60 million salary payout this year, is the one team that is desparate for some Malone elbows. It would supercharge a mediocre team and give even Kobe a push toward a more respectible playoff run. They need Karl more then anyone else.

Oh, the Kings are not interested and have not been contacted by Manley about Malone. Nothing is likely to happen in that area.  

[JoMal]

That was me, above.

[WayOutWest]

That was me, above.

Supercharge the Lakers?  Ummmm....no....Malone only provides 1/2 of what the Lakers are in need of right no.  He would provide rebounding but he's not enough of an inside precense anymore to help LA in the half court set.  When the Lakers can't run they don't do very well this year.

I'd like to see Karl in Miami or SA where he could get his best shot at a ring.

[JoMal]

Supercharge the Lakers?  Ummmm....no....Malone only provides 1/2 of what the Lakers are in need of right no.  He would provide rebounding but he's not enough of an inside precense anymore to help LA in the half court set.  When the Lakers can't run they don't do very well this year.

I'd like to see Karl in Miami or SA where he could get his best shot at a ring.

While I can't disagree that Malone may end up in Miami, he also should be high on the Lakers' wish list as well, regardless of how he feels about Kobe's comments, which did not seem so insulting to me, but then I could never come close to possessing the ego of Karl Malone- let alone Kobe Bryant.

If Karl went back to the Lakers, he would immediately become the de facto leader of that team, or should. Bryant would never, ever allow it, though he has consistently demonstrated to be completely incapable of becoming an option for leadership for LA. Which brings back the issue of whether or not Malone should sign with the Lakers to put up with Kob-ME.

The Heat and Shaq certainly appear a more attractive option for Karl.