Author Topic: Republicans strong on morals?  (Read 5379 times)

Offline Lurker

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Republicans strong on morals?
« on: November 17, 2004, 03:24:16 PM »
Nothing like changing the rules so people charged with political corruption can stay in power.....

WASHINGTON (Nov. 17) - House Republicans approved a party rules change Wednesday that could allow Majority leader Tom DeLay to retain his leadership post if he is indicted by a Texas grand jury on state political corruption charges.

By a voice vote, and with a handful of lawmakers voicing opposition, the House Republican Conference decided that a party committee of several dozen members would review any felony indictment of a party leader and recommend at that time whether the leader should step aside.

The current party rule in this area requires House Republican leaders and the heads of the various committees to relinquish their positions if indicted for a crime that could bring a prison term of at least two years. It makes no distinction between a federal and state indictment. Three of DeLay's political associates already have been indicted by that Texas grand jury.

Rep. Henry Bonilla, R-Texas, said that under the change embraced Wednesday, the House Republican Steering Committee would have 30 legislative days to review a felony indictment and recommend to all House Republicans whether a lawmaker who is charged could remain as a committee chairman or leader.

There is no indication that DeLay, a 57-year-old Texan, will be indicted in connection with a Travis County, Texas, campaign finance investigation. But the majority leader has called the probe a partisan attack on him.

Bonilla said there was no vote count taken in the closed meeting but said the proposal passed overwhelmingly.

''This takes the power away from any partisan crackpot district attorney who may want to indict'' party leaders and make a name for himself, Bonilla said.

Lawmakers said that DeLay did not publicly push for the change and did not participate in the closed-door debate which lasted several hours.

Bonilla said the leader would not have to step aside while fellow party members considered whether an indictment was frivolous.

The grand jury is probing alleged irregularities in 2002 state legislative races. Republican victories in those contests enabled DeLay ultimately to win support for a congressional redistricting plan that resulted in the GOP's gain of five House seats in Texas in this month's elections.

House Democrats have a step-aside provision that applies to both federal and state proceedings similar to the current Republican rule, and their leader, Rep. Nancy Pelosi of California, was highly critical of the GOP proposal.

''If they make this rules change, Republicans will confirm yet again that they simply do not care if their leaders are ethical. If Republicans believe that an indicted member should be allowed to hold a top leadership position in the House of Representatives, their arrogance is astonishing,'' Pelosi said.

In September, the grand jury indicted three political operatives associated with DeLay and eight companies, alleging campaign finance violations related to corporate money spent in the 2002 legislative races. The corporate donations were made to Texans for a Republican Majority, a political action committee created with help from DeLay.

DeLay said he was not questioned or subpoenaed as part of the investigation, led by retiring prosecutor Ronnie Earle.

The majority leader said after the indictments, ''This has been a dragged-out 500-day investigation, and you do the political math. This is no different than other kinds of partisan attacks that have been leveled against me that are dropped after elections.''

In October, the House ethics committee rebuked DeLay for appearing to link political donations to a legislative favor and improperly persuading U.S. aviation authorities to intervene in the Texas redistricting dispute.

Associated Press Writer Suzanne Gamboa contributed to this report.


AP-NY-11-17-04 14:48 EST

 
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Offline SPURSX3

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Republicans strong on morals?
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2004, 03:54:31 PM »
Quote
Nothing like changing the rules so people charged with political corruption can stay in power.....

WASHINGTON (Nov. 17) - House Republicans approved a party rules change Wednesday that could allow Majority leader Tom DeLay to retain his leadership post if he is indicted by a Texas grand jury on state political corruption charges.

By a voice vote, and with a handful of lawmakers voicing opposition, the House Republican Conference decided that a party committee of several dozen members would review any felony indictment of a party leader and recommend at that time whether the leader should step aside.

The current party rule in this area requires House Republican leaders and the heads of the various committees to relinquish their positions if indicted for a crime that could bring a prison term of at least two years. It makes no distinction between a federal and state indictment. Three of DeLay's political associates already have been indicted by that Texas grand jury.

Rep. Henry Bonilla, R-Texas, said that under the change embraced Wednesday, the House Republican Steering Committee would have 30 legislative days to review a felony indictment and recommend to all House Republicans whether a lawmaker who is charged could remain as a committee chairman or leader.

There is no indication that DeLay, a 57-year-old Texan, will be indicted in connection with a Travis County, Texas, campaign finance investigation. But the majority leader has called the probe a partisan attack on him.

Bonilla said there was no vote count taken in the closed meeting but said the proposal passed overwhelmingly.

''This takes the power away from any partisan crackpot district attorney who may want to indict'' party leaders and make a name for himself, Bonilla said.

Lawmakers said that DeLay did not publicly push for the change and did not participate in the closed-door debate which lasted several hours.

Bonilla said the leader would not have to step aside while fellow party members considered whether an indictment was frivolous.

The grand jury is probing alleged irregularities in 2002 state legislative races. Republican victories in those contests enabled DeLay ultimately to win support for a congressional redistricting plan that resulted in the GOP's gain of five House seats in Texas in this month's elections.

House Democrats have a step-aside provision that applies to both federal and state proceedings similar to the current Republican rule, and their leader, Rep. Nancy Pelosi of California, was highly critical of the GOP proposal.

''If they make this rules change, Republicans will confirm yet again that they simply do not care if their leaders are ethical. If Republicans believe that an indicted member should be allowed to hold a top leadership position in the House of Representatives, their arrogance is astonishing,'' Pelosi said.

In September, the grand jury indicted three political operatives associated with DeLay and eight companies, alleging campaign finance violations related to corporate money spent in the 2002 legislative races. The corporate donations were made to Texans for a Republican Majority, a political action committee created with help from DeLay.

DeLay said he was not questioned or subpoenaed as part of the investigation, led by retiring prosecutor Ronnie Earle.

The majority leader said after the indictments, ''This has been a dragged-out 500-day investigation, and you do the political math. This is no different than other kinds of partisan attacks that have been leveled against me that are dropped after elections.''

In October, the House ethics committee rebuked DeLay for appearing to link political donations to a legislative favor and improperly persuading U.S. aviation authorities to intervene in the Texas redistricting dispute.

Associated Press Writer Suzanne Gamboa contributed to this report.


AP-NY-11-17-04 14:48 EST
 :eek2: - it's like reading something from 101's conjoined twin... :rofl:  
On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.

rickortreat

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Republicans strong on morals?
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2004, 04:02:37 PM »
Most amazing thing about the supporters of the Republican party is that they ignore how bad their leaders are.

These are the biggest scumsucking professional assholes in the world.  They lie, cheat and steal about everything, and then pander to the moral majority- idiots who can't think for themselves and send money to television preachers.

This is the prime reason why America sucks- there are too many idiots here to support an honest democracy.  This may be a fact of life everywhere.  One would think that self-rule by an enlightened citizenry would be the answer, but most people are morons without the requisite objectivity to evaluate their leaders.  

Offline Ted

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Republicans strong on morals?
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2004, 04:21:25 PM »
Rick, if you're finished calling us idiots, I'd like to comment on the article.

I am not in favor of this rule change. I see it as a reaction to increasingly the partisan environment in our country—unfortunately it's a reaction that will only increase the rancor.

As far as one party having cornered the market on dishonest, unethical politcians, wake up and smell the bullsh*t you're shoveling.

Politicians all across the spectrum, from right to left, are dishonest and unethical—not all of them, just some of them. I do my best to vote for the person who is honest and ethical and who will represent what I believe politically. Am I an idiot?

I actually voted for a Democrat for U.S. Congress (Matheson) this year because I didn't like the aggressive mudslinging campaign I saw from the Republican candidate. But I am a Republican. Am I an idiot?

"The Moral Majority = Idiots who can't think for themselves and send money to television preachers."

We can't all be part of the intellectual elite Rick. You're just going to have to let us live out our lives in conservative Christian squalor while you direct and predict the paths of world economies and goverments. When did you first say the U.S was on the brink of another recession? A year ago? How is the market speculation going? Well? I guess I'll have to just keep contributing to my pathetic 401k and adding to my mutual fund portfolio that has been bringing in just over 12% a year since 2001. Not all of us have the brains to live off the market. Life is tough in these United States.
 :nod:  
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"I think the responsibility the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards in and tighten up a little bit on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." ~Bill Clinton

Offline Ted

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Republicans strong on morals?
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2004, 04:34:12 PM »
Quote
Nothing like changing the rules so people charged with political corruption can stay in power.....
You know Lurk, the more I think about this deal, the more I agree with you. This really bugs me.  Why would they do this? I guess I understand their reasoning, but I just don't think it holds up. Partisan attacks happen, but DAs can't just tell a grand jury who to indict. I have faith in the justice system, and have to believe that the checks (grand jury, judges, etc.) put in place to keep DAs from pursuing political gains would protect most of those who are wrongly accused. I think this rule change just encourages more division, so I don't like it.

Wait a minute . . . did I just think for myself?!?!?!

Holy shnikeys! Somebody tell Rick! A conservative thought, and did it for himself!!!

Now I'm scared. :unsure:  
"You take him Perk!" ~Kevin Garnett

"I think the responsibility the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards in and tighten up a little bit on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." ~Bill Clinton

rickortreat

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Republicans strong on morals?
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2004, 06:03:41 PM »
Ted, I've read enough of what you've written to realize you're not an idiot by any means.  And, please don't misinterpret me.  I AM NOT A DEMOCRAT.  Really.  I am a pragmatist and belive in what works.  The democrats are every bit as slimy and hypocritical as their counterparts on the other side.

As far as being an intellectual elitist, I am not one of them either.  But I do hope for more intelligence from voters than to vote for sports figures and actors!  A pretty face does not make for a good leader.  Ever see an ugly politician in Washington?


By the way, if the recession hasn't hit your area, I'm happy for you.  According to an article I read today, Phila is doing better than most areas of the country, but I still don't have a job.

I also want a job, since I'm not good enough to make a living off the market, besides which, it's not a productive way to make a living.

I do have a gold stock that has almost doubled since the end of January however.  Please be carefull with your savings in that 401K.  However, you should realize that with your 12% gain you're loosing money as the dollar has declined by over 30% in the same period.

Here's a chart of the Dow industrials divided by the price of Gold: http://tinyurl.com/45vn7

Still think the country is doing OK?  

Believe you me, if I was running things you'd be much better off.  I'm not a weasel and I don't steal or lie.  The people we're relying on to run things are nowhere near as honorable!  

Offline Ted

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Republicans strong on morals?
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2004, 06:32:37 PM »
Quote
Ted, I've read enough of what you've written to realize you're not an idiot by any means.  And, please don't misinterpret me.  I AM NOT A DEMOCRAT.  Really.  I am a pragmatist and belive in what works.  The democrats are every bit as slimy and hypocritical as their counterparts on the other side.

As far as being an intellectual elitist, I am not one of them either.  But I do hope for more intelligence from voters than to vote for sports figures and actors!  A pretty face does not make for a good leader.  Ever see an ugly politician in Washington?


By the way, if the recession hasn't hit your area, I'm happy for you.  According to an article I read today, Phila is doing better than most areas of the country, but I still don't have a job.

I also want a job, since I'm not good enough to make a living off the market, besides which, it's not a productive way to make a living.

I do have a gold stock that has almost doubled since the end of January however.  Please be carefull with your savings in that 401K.  However, you should realize that with your 12% gain you're loosing money as the dollar has declined by over 30% in the same period.

Here's a chart of the Dow industrials divided by the price of Gold: http://tinyurl.com/45vn7

Still think the country is doing OK?  

Believe you me, if I was running things you'd be much better off.  I'm not a weasel and I don't steal or lie.  The people we're relying on to run things are nowhere near as honorable!
Rick, I don't think you're dishonest or stupid. I think you are a good guy, and I'm sorry for taking your post too personally. I just get scared when people equate "having morals" (or thinking you have morals) with being stupid. It can sometimes be true, but it's not always so.

I hope you can find something you like.
"You take him Perk!" ~Kevin Garnett

"I think the responsibility the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards in and tighten up a little bit on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." ~Bill Clinton

rickortreat

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Republicans strong on morals?
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2004, 09:17:41 PM »
Morals are very, very important, and are not stupid at all.  However, in my opinion, although religeon teaches morals, religion itself is immoral.

By that I mean, anyone who places themselves above everyone else, claiming that he or she is closer to god is more often than not a flim-flam artist.  You can see it in the muslim world, where mullahs lead their people to slaughter and use their postions to gain money and power.

Not all Jews, but the Hassidim in New York are a very closed knit group, very proud and so full of shit that it makes me sick.  Here they are, with their holier than thou attitude and they lie right to your face.  In addition,  they exclude others and don't give any consideration to outsiders.

Not to mention the fallwells, swaggerts and all the other people who masquerade as being religious and live high on the hog on others donations.

You know more about the mormons living where you do, so I'll let you define them if you so choose.  At least the ones who come around are polite.

I believe in the golden rule- do unto others... and that pretty much covers most everything.  So many people have given their lives for a religeous cause that it makes me sick.

So I'm inherently distrustful of anyone who runs on their values.  They see Bush as a good man, ignoring his record in the military- he used his father's political connections to erase his record- you can bet that it wasn't distinguished if he went to all that trouble!

Bottom line: every since Regan the Republicans have made a deal with the religious right, and they vote with what appears to me as blind loyalty.  Regan was divorced and then married again, and I met some women who claimed he seduced them years before when he was an actor.  Bush himself had problems with drinking and cocaine.  

It's fine to want a leader with character and integrity,  but these men were hypocrites who certainly don't lead their lives as religious, moral men.  So what is it the religious right see in them.

Personally I'd prefer people were careful with their sexual behavior, but if a woman should become pregnant and decides to abort the child, I think it is absolutely wrong to force her to have the child.  What kind of a mother would she be, contemplating killing her offspring for whatever reason?  Not to mention their right to do with their bodies as they choose.  Any time anyone imposes their beliefs upon another, their freedom has been taken away!

Thanks for the good wishes Ted, sometimes I get a little emotional about the hypocricy and inconsistency I see in the world around me.  I'm sure that many Christians are decent, honest people, and I actually prefer sincere people over those with great intelligence but no morals.    

Offline spursfan101

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Republicans strong on morals?
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2004, 09:20:42 AM »

Quote
- it's like reading something from 101's conjoined twin... 

What happened in Texas was wrong x3. I do understand that because it was your party that did it, you absolutely saw no fault in what they did. I believe purposely redistricting state boundaries to claim more seats for your party is wrong. If the democrats did that, I would be equally bothered.
Paul

Offline Lurker

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Republicans strong on morals?
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2004, 10:12:23 AM »
Quote
Quote
- it's like reading something from 101's conjoined twin... 

What happened in Texas was wrong x3. I do understand that because it was your party that did it, you absolutely saw no fault in what they did. I believe purposely redistricting state boundaries to claim more seats for your party is wrong. If the democrats did that, I would be equally bothered.
Maybe I am his cajoined twin....because I agree with this statement.  The party in power...either Demo or Repub....should NOT be incharge of redrawing district lines however they see fit.  All it leads to is those in power doing whatever is necessary to retain power....not doing what is in the best interest of the public electorate.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2004, 10:12:36 AM by Lurker »
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Offline SPURSX3

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Republicans strong on morals?
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2004, 10:13:23 AM »
Quote
Quote
- it's like reading something from 101's conjoined twin... 

What happened in Texas was wrong x3. I do understand that because it was your party that did it, you absolutely saw no fault in what they did. I believe purposely redistricting state boundaries to claim more seats for your party is wrong. If the democrats did that, I would be equally bothered.
whatever "fruity spiderman avatatar man"... :nod:   :alcohol:  
On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.

rickortreat

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Republicans strong on morals?
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2004, 11:26:55 AM »
The redisticting game has been going on forever.  Both parties do it, or have in the past.  The thing about the Texas case is that the dems went awol, so they couldn't vote on the redisctricting. DeLay, illegally asked the police to track them down.

I wouldn't mind the Rebulicans so much if they would stop supporting people like Delay.  He should be removed from office for breaking the law, not have a law rewritten so he can stay in office after commiting a crime.

In other Republican weasel news,  PA's junior Sentator Rick Santorum, claims to live in a two-bedroom house inhabited by someone else.  Santorum has 6 kids.   He was trying to use the house to get a credit from the local school district to send his kids to a Private School.

http://tinyurl.com/3ktpp

http://tinyurl.com/5ekm9

Offline Joe Vancil

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Republicans strong on morals?
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2004, 12:11:12 PM »
That new proposal is CRAP.  If you don't want the other party beating on you for being unethical, THEN STOP BEHAVING UNETHICALLY.  This "I made my bed, but I'm changing the rules so I don't have to lie in it" stuff has to stop.

TERM LIMITS, folks.  No more than 6 years in the House plus 12 in the Senate.  That's more than enough time to sufficiently gouge the public.  18 years.  Start limiting these jerks to less time in Congress than they'd get in the pen for the stuff they do.

Forget getting DeLay out of office;  PROSECUTE HIM.  PUT HIM IN JAIL.
Joe

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Offline Ted

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Republicans strong on morals?
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2004, 12:49:22 PM »
Quote
You know more about the mormons living where you do, so I'll let you define them if you so choose. At least the ones who come around are polite.

I'll risk a definition. Mormons are human. Mormons have cliques, pride, rich and poor. Mormon marriages fall apart because of money, abuse, pornography, and pride--mostly money and pornography. Mormon kids get messed up by drugs and sex and violence. Mormons share their faith aggressively—some do it because they genuinely think it can help people understand why they're here and be more happy; some do it because they stupidly think everyone else is automatically going to hell. In it's simplest and most basic form, Mormon doctrine is your doctrine: "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." IMO, the doctrine is perfect; the people are not—but the good ones are trying really hard.

I don't blame you for hating religion. I really don't. There is so much hypocrisy in EVERY form of religion, and it's so easy to see that as a symptom of faith. But hypocrisy and extremism aren't necessarily native to faith, they come from us, IMO.
"You take him Perk!" ~Kevin Garnett

"I think the responsibility the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards in and tighten up a little bit on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." ~Bill Clinton

rickortreat

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Republicans strong on morals?
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2004, 03:25:40 PM »
Dead on Ted.  And now for something completly different:

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT"S A REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT in power.

http://tinyurl.com/65v9l

It is apparent that this process of dominating America and the rest of the world has been going on for even longer than the above link.

When seen from the interests of the money power, as oppossed to politics, what drives the world makes much more sense.  

They tell us we're free, but in many ways we are slaves to the money power, which is now extending itself around the world.  Too big to fight, too many people in postions of power and authority are part of it.

They don't care what you think or what you believe in.  They know they control the money, which controls industry and business and the government.  America hasn't been for the people since the civil war.  

Every president since that time has been a puppet for the money power.  The full integration process is described in the above link.  But even the war of 1812, and the impeachment proceedings agains Andrew Jackson were part of the effort of the money power to secure it's domination over the United States.