Here's why you shouldn't vote Republican

[rickortreat]

http://zfacts.com/p/480.html

And to think that the Republicans like to talk about tax and spend liberals.  What chutzpah!

Please understand that as our debt goes up, our ability to pay it off goes down.  From this article it's very clear who doesn't have the capacity to act in a financially responsible manner.

One of the ways the US deals with debt is to print more dollars- this is inflationary, which makes the debt easier to pay.  It also makes each dollar you hold worth less.  It is an invisible form of stealing and a reason why house prices, stock prices and gasoline are up.  These things aren't worth more, your dollars are worth LESS!  

[Ted]

Rick, I understand where you're coming from. Many conservatives, me included, are very unhappy with the deficit problems. But it seems, in that area, Bush may be the lesser of two evils. Have you listened to Kerry's campaign promises? The new programs he is proposing will cost a massive amount of money, an amount far beyond what his proposed tax hike on those making over 200K will cover. And then there's Social Security. Kerry has no plan to save it. Bush's plan may be risky and expensive in the short-term, but doing nothing is a whole lot more expensive. How is Kerry going to "leave Social Security alone?" The system is broken, and people like me are at the point where we have written off any SS support in the future. I'm planning as if it doesn't exist. Doing nothing certainly can't save the system, can it?

And Kerry says he's going to add 40,000 more active duty troops. I didn't realize it was that easy. Have we been turning potential enlistees away? How much will 40,000 full-time soldiers cost? So he's not talking about cutting defense spending. In fact, he probably can't avoid increasing defense spending unless he leaves Iraq too soon, and that, IMO, would make us look a lot worse than going in made us look.

It seems to me, that we're headed for worse deficits and a broken welfare system under Kerry. I've heard several estimates that Kerry's plans will cost a trillion dollars more. Will any kind of tax hike cover that? I'm not trying debate you here--these are serious questions that I've struggled to find answers to. Can you answer them?

[WayOutWest]

Ted,

Bush bashing aside....

One big reason I'm not voting for Bush this time my belief that his administration his being dishonest with America.  

We talk about how many troops die in Iraq but we lose 5,500 people annaully to health problems caused by pollution.  I know first hand about some of the laws Bush rolled back to appease his backers in big corps.  There were allot of enviromental laws put into effect durring the Clinton administration FORCING the big pollutors in our country to comply or cease operations.  I believe 2006 was the drop dead year and some mandatory changes were due back in 2002.  The US was under alot of pressure from the rest of the world to comply because we are screwing up the ENTIRE planet all by our American selves.  Bush repealed 30 laws including the "clean air act" indefinately.  The biggest polluter in our nation are coal burning energy producers.  Bush then appoints people from that very industry to police our enviromental efforts.  It's just so blatent is sickening.  There are 19 states were the mercury content of fresh water, caused by cabon burning energy suppliers, is so high that it's dangerous to eat the fish.  If pregnant women eat that fish their kids are 3 times more likely to have mental development problems.  Bush has been the worst enviromental president in history.

The FBI is now begining a CRIMINAL investigation into the no-bid contracts awarded to Haliburton.  A congressional commitee published a report about the conflict of interest in that matter as well which sparked the FBI into action.

I just feel like I'm getting fucked by this administration and the couple of extra grand in tax savings isn't worth it when I think about what my kids are going to be left with when it's their turn to run the show.

[rickortreat]

Ted, I understand your concerns, and I'm not going to say that Kerry has the answers, because if he does, he's not telling us.  I myself have several solutions to address these issues, so I know what I'm looking for him to say.

With that said, you cannot be a good Republican and vote for Bush.  Why the party everr nominated an incompetant like him is beyond me,.  I am not a democrat or a republican,  I am a pragmatist, and the direction we're moving in is not working.

Bush is setting the direction, or is a puppet for the poeple who are.  In either case, what he is doing is not in the bast interests of the American people.

I don't know if Kerry will be better,  but I am sure he can't be any worse.

It's not just the budget deficit, it's also the reade deficit, the loss of jobs, the assault on our rights by the Patriot Act.  Ted, please read that, and undestand how many times they violated the bill of rights under the guise of defending our freedom.   And, perhaps worst of all, he lied to the American people and Congress in order to get us to launch a pre-emptive attack on another soveriegn nation, costing us billions of dollars and thousands of American lives.

Bush should be impeached and prosecuted for treason, but I'll settle for chasing him out of the White House.  I put America first, and so should Republicans and Democrats.  When a man like Bush gets into the White House, we all loose.

 

[Joe Vancil]

Wow, Rickortreat, there's a lot there that I don't agree with.

Kerry can't be worse?  There's always room for a weak leader to be worse.  In the months I've seen this campaign go (drag) on, I'm convinced that Kerry is the wrong person for the job.  Oh, don't get me wrong, Bush is ALSO the wrong person for the job.  But the problem is that we're looking at it as "one or the other."  That's the wrong way to look at things.  No businessman, when faced with the choice of declaring bankrupcy or selling off his top money-producing and strategic product chooses one of those options...at least, no GOOD businessman does.

The problem with both Bush and Kerry is that their leadership abilities are, at the very best, extremely poor.  At worst, they're non-existent.

A leader has a clear plan, a purpose, and the presence which brings people to respect him - if not fear him.  These candidates don't have that.

When was the last time that, during American military action against their country, the leader of the warring contingent was shown on American news, denouncing the leader of the US?  Denouncing the potential leader of the US?  The fact is that Osama bin Laden isn't afraid of either Bush or Kerry, or what either of them will do.  He BENEFITS from our awful choices.

I don't care why he's still breathing;  I want it stopped.  Neither of these candidates is capable of doing that, and bin Laden knows it.  If that means we send every last reservist over there and flatten the mountain range he's hiding in, so be it.  Give me a *REAL* war president.

The worst sign for us is that everyone knows Bush isn't up to the task, but no Republican even bothered challenging him in a primary!

*sigh*

Maybe in 2008 we'll get a candidate who actually resembles a leader in some form.  And I'm not picky.  I just want *ONE*.  One that I can vote for.

With that said, you cannot be a good Republican and vote for Bush.

Agreed.  The problem is that you can't be a good Democrat and vote for Kerry, either.

the direction we're moving in is not working.

What direction are we moving in?  We're *NOT* moving.  We're running circles around ourselves as bi-partisan stalemate runs the country.  Elsewhere, leaders get support for their decisions, and then progress.  Not in our country.  First, they get support, then they run around in circles so they're able to take all the credit and share none of it, while pushing the blame for lack of progress on the other party.

We went to Iraq.  Right or wrong, we're there.  We need to finish the job.  Anyone who gripes about the war now is TOO LATE.  Don't run us around in another circle.

prosecuted for treason

Incompetence, perhaps, but not treason.  Especially when our LAST president helped us out by giving North Korea assistance in its nuclear "energy" program.  That's easily as treasonous as anything I've seen from the Bush camp.

Our country is HURTING.  We're lacking a basic leadership skill at the top levels of our government.  How many Congressmen are FAILED businessmen?  We've got bums in there who can't balance their checkbook, much less the budget.  Every president talks about eliminating the DEFICIT, but NO ONE talks about eliminating the DEBT.

Our country is being run by idiots....idiots known as VOTERS.  Until the voters smarten up and start demanding REAL choices, and rejecting the choices like the ones we've been given so far, we're going to have bad leaders.
 

[spursfan101]

Can't believe it's already over!  I still say 1 of 2 scenarios will happen.

Kerry wins the popular vote by over 1 million votes and STILL loses the election...

or

Bush or Kerry will DECIDEDLY by more than 5% points. The race will not be as close as originally thought...but lawsuits will still be filed by either side tying up the election, even the clear cut winner is evident.

[SPURSX3]

Can't believe it's already over!  I still say 1 of 2 scenarios will happen.

Kerry wins the popular vote by over 1 million votes and STILL loses the election...

or

Bush or Kerry will DECIDEDLY by more than 5% points. The race will not be as close as originally thought...but lawsuits will still be filed by either side tying up the election, even the clear cut winner is evident.

I think bush will win popular and electoral vote this year...but by a VERY VERY VERY slim margin....we still may see lawsuits on this one....

[Lurker]

There is one small detail that many are overlooking....what will be the makeup of Congress?   When the same party controls both the presidency & the congress our deficit always rises at extreme rates.  The best course for our country fiscally always occurs when one party controls the White House and the other party controls Congress.  As it is almost a given that the Republicans will control the Congress the best outcome for the presidency would be a Democrat.  In this scenario the checks & balance system actually works.

Despite all of Kerry's campaign rhetoric IF he becomes president he will be at odds with congress and will have a very tough time pushing through any tax bills or spending measures.  Bush on the other hand will not have any restraints on his programs....which obviously are not working for our economy.

Then there is one other small issue....the makeup of our Supreme Court.  There is a very real chance that the next president will nominate anywhere from 2-6 new justices.  Bush's record on nominations to the federal judiciary....and congresses rubber stamping....has to be scary to anyone who is not still stuck in 1950's conservatism.

[spursfan101]

I don't think x3, or any Republican, is looking at the impact of young and first time voters in this election. Majorly favors the democrats.

[SPURSX3]

I don't think x3, or any Republican, is looking at the impact of young and first time voters in this election. Majorly favors the democrats.

101 i think you have been watching too much mtv to really think that is the case, the fact is there is an even amoutn of first time voters on both sides, not every young person hangs on pearl james every word.  i think the first time vote is pretty split right now - also i dont think that every first time voter is always going to be young either.

[Ted]

Then there is one other small issue....the makeup of our Supreme Court.  There is a very real chance that the next president will nominate anywhere from 2-6 new justices.  Bush's record on nominations to the federal judiciary....and congresses rubber stamping....has to be scary to anyone who is not still stuck in 1950's conservatism.

Agreed. The best years we've had in the last two decades came when we had a horny democrat and a corrupt republican Congress. Since it looks like the Repubs will hold the Senate and House, maybe I'll have to vote for Kerry. It's just that he scares me too much.

The judge nominating thing has been really ugly lately. Some of the judges that Bush nominated were the highest rated judges in the nation, and you don't get those high ratings by being a judicial activist. Estrada, for example, is one of the best nominations Bush made, but he was ousted because he was a minority and supposedly a conservative. Have you guys heard about the democratic nat'l party memos that actually mention that Estrada had to go down because he was Latino. It's all just crazy.

Personally, I think the court needs a good balance of opinions. Ginsburg, Souter, the other guy for the left; Thomas, Scalia and maybe Rehnquist for the right; O'Connor, Kennedy and the other centrists for the middle.

[rickortreat]

Joe, I wanted to follow up with you wrote, to clear up some of my ideas.

Unfortunately, we are stuck with this choice, at least this time around.  Bush or Kerry, you have to choose one, your only other choice is to not choose.  Since we have to choose, based on what Bush has and has not done, I choose Kerry.

Based on what I posted about Republican presidents and their track record in pushing us further into debt, we cannot afford another one until he agrees is both word and deed, that deficits DO matter.  Fiscal integrity is a key issue for me and Bush doesn't have it.

Justice is also important to me, as is the preservation of our freedoms.  Based on domestic laws such as the Patriot Acts, 1 & 2, our freedoms as guaranteed under the bill of rights are under direct assault.  That these acts were even passed, and the way they were passed- voted on without even a reading, tells me that someone is trying to pull a fast one on the American people.  I want everyone of the poeple who voted agaisnt the Consitution out.  That means Cheney, who hods enourmous leverage is the Republican controlled Senate, The Attorney General John Ashcroft, who's justice department wrote the acts. And a bunch of other Republicans who don't seem to understand the concepts and values of the US Consitution, which they all swore an oath to protect.

We also have the war on terror to consider. So far, it is a failure.  We are not safer; more people who might like to harm us now percieve us as vulnerable.  Bin Laden is still free.  Al Quiada is still in operation.  China has no respect for us, even though we have made them wealthy by buying their products.  N. Korea has nukes and are still making more.  This could only happen with China's support.  Iran has a heavy water plant, and may have significant support from the Soviets.  These our hostile countries with WMD- much more of a threat than Iraq.  I'd have to say that Bush is leading us in the wrong direction.

Kerry agrees with your positon on Iraq, by the way.  He says we have to finish the job and stabilize the country before we leave.  And since when is it wrong to disagree with a leader in a Democracy.  We were wrong to attack Iraq and I'm happy that someone has the integrity to say so.  To hell with morality and support of our troops under any circumstances.  Vietnam was wrong too, and how many people lost their lives in that misadventure?  Having the ability to wage war around the world is a big responsibility.   I don't want a stupid cowboy running our foreign policy.  A veteran who actually took a hit in combat is a better choice, than a drunk and cocaine head in the National Guard who's records have been hidden and destroyed because they were too embarrassing.

I do agree that another choice is needed.  IMO, most voters fell like you Joe, they don't like the choices their given.  I see a need for a new party.  But in the meantime, until the Republicans field a better candidate, one who agrees that increasing the deficit is a bad idea, I'm voting for the other guy.  

[spursfan101]

101 i think you have been watching too much mtv to really think that is the case, the fact is there is an even amoutn of first time voters on both sides, not every young person hangs on pearl james every word. i think the first time vote is pretty split right now - also i dont think that every first time voter is always going to be young either.

Anger or hatred toward this President will lead people to go vote in record numbers.  

[SPURSX3]

101 i think you have been watching too much mtv to really think that is the case, the fact is there is an even amoutn of first time voters on both sides, not every young person hangs on pearl james every word. i think the first time vote is pretty split right now - also i dont think that every first time voter is always going to be young either.

Anger or hatred toward this President will lead people to go vote in record numbers.

yeah that and the new eminem video i guess...... :crazy:  :bs:  

[spursfan101]

yeah that and the new eminem video i guess......   

Your underestimating the Power of the Puffy.  If they don't vote, they WILL DIE. That's a pretty powerful message that resonates to your youth. Besides, they got a free Vote or Die t-shirt out of it...and clean underwear and Ramen, they'll come through, you watch! :cheers: