Author Topic: How bad will Charlotte really be?  (Read 4789 times)

Guest_Randy

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How bad will Charlotte really be?
« on: October 21, 2004, 10:58:16 AM »
SG  Corey Benjamin 6-6 205  
C    Primoz Brezec 7-1 252    
PG  Omar Cook 6-1 190    
FC  Melvin Ely  6-10 261  
PG  Jason Hart 6-3 181  
SG  Eddie House  6-1 175  
PF   Brandon Hunter  6-7 260  
SF   Jason Kapono 6-8 213
PG   Brevin Knight 5-10 170  
FC   Emeka Okafor 6-10 252  
GF   Bernard Robinson Jr. 6-6 210  
FC   Jamal Sampson 6-11 235  
GF   Tamar Slay 6-8 215  
SG  Steve Smith 6-8 221
F     Theron Smith 6-8 225  
SF   Gerald Wallace 6-7  
C     Jahidi White 6-9 290

I think that they are going to be pretty bad.  

But here are some interesting questions:

1)  Who will be their best player?

2)  Will Okafor be the next Ben Wallace?

3)  Do they have anyone, including Okafor, to build on for the future?

 

Guest_Randy

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How bad will Charlotte really be?
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2004, 11:03:14 AM »
I think that Okafor was a mistake -- I think Howard is going to be a MUCH better NBA player.  Howard doesn't have an NBA body yet but he has the skills and the motivation -- two things I question in Okafor.  You have to be incredibly skilled or driven to be a 6'10" center -- even in the EC (and help your team become a playoff contender).  I don't think Okafor will ever be more than a role player.

1)  I think Gerald Wallace has the most potential of anyone on this team.

2)  No, I don't think Okafor will be the next Ben Wallace -- I think he is HIGHLY overrated.

3)  No, they ought to see who is willing to trade for Okafor -- would Portland be willing to trade Reef or Randolph for Okafor and a future draft pick?

 

Offline Lurker

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« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2004, 11:14:19 AM »
Quote

3)  No, they ought to see who is willing to trade for Okafor -- would Portland be willing to trade Reef or Randolph for Okafor and a future draft pick?
And what makes either of those players a better "cornerstone" than Okafor?

Shareef has proven repeatedly over his career that he is NOT a franchise player.

Randolph has shown that he thinks he is but last year proved he can put up impressive numbers with playing time...but leadership abilities ( a key to franchise level players) definately need improvement.

At this point I don't think you can say either of those players are worth trading for Okafor.  And to throw in a top lottery pick on top of it....if I didn't know better I would say this was written by a Blazer fan.
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jn

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How bad will Charlotte really be?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2004, 11:28:45 AM »
They will be bad indeed but not the worst expansion team ever and not as bad as the worst Clipper teams.  I'd have to think Knight will be there most dependable player.  

Randy what makes you question Okafor's motivation? I didn't see him play a whole lot during college but when I did, he played hard.


 

Offline Derek Bodner

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How bad will Charlotte really be?
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2004, 11:36:37 AM »
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I think that Okafor was a mistake -- I think Howard is going to be a MUCH better NBA player.

First of all, Howard was taken second.  THEY DIDN'T HAVE A CHOICE WHO TO TAKE

Second, questioning Okafor's drive?  Have you watched any of him?  Have you read anything about him.  He has as much drive, if not more, than anyone in this draft class.

And trading for SAR?  Who's never been in the playoffs and plays defense like Glenn Robinson?

Offline Ted

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How bad will Charlotte really be?
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2004, 11:42:07 AM »
How is Okafor a mistake? Howard was the first pick in the draft. It's not like the Bobcats passed him up.

Okafor DOES have skill, and he definitely is motivated. They guy played practically the entire NCAA tournament with a bad back, and he was dominant. The guy is a force on defense. And he is pretty skilled on offense, better than Ben Wallace. I've seen nothing out of this guy that would ever lead me to question his motivation. He played harder than just about anyone I've seen last year. Just because he didn't get time on the Olympic team, it doesn't mean he's not going to be a good player. He is a game changing type of player.

Howard on the other hand is a totally unproven entity. He hasn't proven himself against anything resembling real competition. Few people know that he played in the lowest high school classification in Atlanta. He has proven nothing, and I see no reason whatsoever to say he's more motivated than Okafor? On what inside information are you basing that assertion?
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Offline westkoast

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How bad will Charlotte really be?
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2004, 12:28:36 PM »
Okafor is going to fall short.  Not because he cant play or because of motivation...but because this team is betting on a rookie to be the corner stone of a team that has minimal talent.  Add to that, that he is playing one of the toughest spots on the team.  EC or not.  The center position over the course of NBA history has been the most important spot for teams that stay successfull.  I think they are riding too much on him at this point.   He seems very confident even though he is undersized so thats a plus.

The toll the game takes on you mentally and physically at the pro level changes alot of things.   Thats why I rarely judge a player by what hes accomplished in his previous college year.  The jump between the two is so large now that college, IMO, is not as good of a measuring stick as it use to be.  Carrying your team thru the NCAA tourny with a bad back is a walk in the park compared to carrying your team for 10 games in the regular season in the NBA.  Even without an injury.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2004, 12:29:17 PM by westkoast »
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Offline Ted

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How bad will Charlotte really be?
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2004, 12:52:42 PM »
Fall short of what? The all-star game? Well . . . duh!

I've been hearing that Primoz Brezec or Jahidi White is going to start at center for the Bobcats. And I've heard nothing that says the Bobcats are expecting Okafor to lead the team. Most informed sportswriters say Brevin Knight will be the team's leader, and Gerald Wallace will probably be the leading scorer. Okafor doesn't have to come in an be Kevin Garnett. He's going to do just fine by normal rookie standards.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2004, 12:53:13 PM by Ted »
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Offline westkoast

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« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2004, 01:10:02 PM »
Quote
Fall short of what? The all-star game? Well . . . duh!

I've been hearing that Primoz Brezec or Jahidi White is going to start at center for the Bobcats. And I've heard nothing that says the Bobcats are expecting Okafor to lead the team. Most informed sportswriters say Brevin Knight will be the team's leader, and Gerald Wallace will probably be the leading scorer. Okafor doesn't have to come in an be Kevin Garnett. He's going to do just fine by normal rookie standards.
You havent been reading then Ted because the team has already started saying he's the franchise player.  He's even made comments about being the key to the team's success.  He's even in commercials down there for the team.  Dunno where you been or where you read but they've already made it very clear he's going to be the corner stone.

What is he going to fall short of?  Taking this team anywhere.


Quote
``My success is based on winning,'' he said. ``Losing is just not my mindset. My mentality is `We're going to win and we're going to make the playoffs.' ``
 
      Okafor is in a unique situation for a rookie.
 
      Because the Bobcats are starting from scratch, he's the immediate face of the franchise. The team crafted a cute little marketing strategy this fall, featuring Okafor in several election-themed commercials that all end in ``I'm Emeka Okafor, and I approved this ad.''
 
      Drive anywhere in Charlotte and you'll see election signs dotting front yards and proclaiming ``Okafor in '04.''
 
      But the cornerstone of the franchise said he feels no pressure to carry the team. Nor will he force himself into a leadership role, something he'd have to earn on an already established team.
 
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Guest_Randy

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How bad will Charlotte really be?
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2004, 01:38:16 PM »
Well, it's FINALLY nice to get a basketball discussion going here.

1) I don't think Okafor is in Ben Wallace's league -- okay, sure, he is a better offensive player (that's not saying much, is it?) but I don't think this guy is in the same ballpark defensively as Big Ben.

2) We'll see about his motivation -- I have some reasons but it's based on some hearsay rather than personal observation.  He hasn't played in the NBA yet -- we will see if what I hear is right or not.

3) I DON'T think this guy is a franchise player -- that's just all there is to it.  I don't think he is going to be a flop -- I just don't think he is EVER going to be the player he is already vaunted as being -- a good comparison, IMO, is to Christian Laettner, Shawn Bradley, etc.

It's nice to have a record on here -- just to see who is right!

Offline JoMal

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How bad will Charlotte really be?
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2004, 01:40:42 PM »
Charlotte is going to be posterized as a team, but they have some young talent to build on and several future drafts to build with when they get top draft picks.

For now, yuck.

Okefor may not be that great a pro, but decent. I keep thinking of Larry Johnson. Howard is likely an above average talent - in the future. But since he is not on Charlotte, we can just shove that little issue to the side.

Gerald Wallace, I have heard, lightened up the home crowd in their first pre-season game. He did the same in Sacramento the few times he played. He can score and he can do a flying dunk like the best of them. He also can be incredibly active around the basket on offense.

So why was he left available by the Kings so Charlotte could select him? Thought you would never ask.

What you see apparently is all you can ever expect from him. Offensive or defensive game plans and strategies go in one ear and out the other. The pro game, especially the Kings's style of game, is predicated on all five members on the court moving in the offense together and working as a unit together on defense, though Gerald was hardly out of place with the rest of the Kings on defense.  

He can be amazing athletically - a real crowd pleaser. So was(is) JWill.  But they shared one annoying characteristic, a rather pronounced inability to be coached. As Williams matured, he got better, but you also almost never hear about him any more.

I also heard that when he was out and about with his teammates around SacTown, Gerald, um, never, like, offered to pay for anything, and he never, not even a dime, tipped anybody.  Sure, he had less cash then his richer teammates, like, Webber, who is an extremely generous tipper, but I am talking never even carrying any money or have a wallet with him.   :puke:
« Last Edit: October 21, 2004, 01:41:59 PM by JoMal »
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Offline Ted

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« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2004, 01:59:00 PM »
Of course he's their franchise player! He's their lottery pick! Who else do they have? But you're making it sound as if everyone expects him to instantly be the Messiah. I've heard none of that, admittedly because I've stuck with the national news outlets. The Bobcats are trying to promote their team. Who else do you want them to put in their TV spots? Of course there's pressure and of course he expects a lot of himself, but IMO, that's irrelevant.

I just wonder what about this guy makes people he won't be a great player? Is being great in high school now a better preparation for being great in a pressure-packed college tournament?

I think Okafor will perform up to par with most reasonable basketball experts' expectations. he's not going to rule the world as a rookie. No one is saying he will. This guy will be a very good power forward in this league.
"You take him Perk!" ~Kevin Garnett

"I think the responsibility the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards in and tighten up a little bit on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." ~Bill Clinton

Guest_Randy

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How bad will Charlotte really be?
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2004, 02:06:50 PM »
Quote
Charlotte is going to be posterized as a team, but they have some young talent to build on and several future drafts to build with when they get top draft picks.

For now, yuck.

Okefor may not be that great a pro, but decent. I keep thinking of Larry Johnson. Howard is likely an above average talent - in the future. But since he is not on Charlotte, we can just shove that little issue to the side.

Gerald Wallace, I have heard, lightened up the home crowd in their first pre-season game. He did the same in Sacramento the few times he played. He can score and he can do a flying dunk like the best of them. He also can be incredibly active around the basket on offense.

So why was he left available by the Kings so Charlotte could select him? Thought you would never ask.

What you see apparently is all you can ever expect from him. Offensive or defensive game plans and strategies go in one ear and out the other. The pro game, especially the Kings's style of game, is predicated on all five members on the court moving in the offense together and working as a unit together on defense, though Gerald was hardly out of place with the rest of the Kings on defense.  

He can be amazing athletically - a real crowd pleaser. So was(is) JWill.  But they shared one annoying characteristic, a rather pronounced inability to be coached. As Williams matured, he got better, but you also almost never hear about him any more.

I also heard that when he was out and about with his teammates around SacTown, Gerald, um, never, like, offered to pay for anything, and he never, not even a dime, tipped anybody.  Sure, he had less cash then his richer teammates, like, Webber, who is an extremely generous tipper, but I am talking never even carrying any money or have a wallet with him.   :puke:
You know who Gerald reminds me a LOT of?  Tony Campbell -- who was drafted by the TWolves.  Tony couldn't make the Laker squad but became one of the leagues top scorers with the TWolves.  But as soon as the team added decent personell, they dropped him fast.  

I think that Gerald is going to be their "best" player this year -- I think he will put up a lot of points at times -- I don't think he is someone to build a franchise around -- he is one of those guys that will be dropped as soon as they can get a legit franchise player into their organization.

Offline westkoast

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« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2004, 03:51:34 PM »
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Of course he's their franchise player! He's their lottery pick! Who else do they have? But you're making it sound as if everyone expects him to instantly be the Messiah. I've heard none of that, admittedly because I've stuck with the national news outlets. The Bobcats are trying to promote their team. Who else do you want them to put in their TV spots? Of course there's pressure and of course he expects a lot of himself, but IMO, that's irrelevant.

I just wonder what about this guy makes people he won't be a great player? Is being great in high school now a better preparation for being great in a pressure-packed college tournament?

I think Okafor will perform up to par with most reasonable basketball experts' expectations. he's not going to rule the world as a rookie. No one is saying he will. This guy will be a very good power forward in this league.
Franchise player = corner stone = leader.   He said he won't force himself but the Bobcats want him to be the leader.   Did you not just say that he isn't expected to lead this team?  Its very relevant considering I was speaking about him living up to expectations and that is what you quoted and replied to in the first place.  Okafur made comments saying he is going to take them to the playoffs and even said he would dunk on Shaq.  He has certain expectations for himself that the organization is co-signing.  These expectations of him to lead this team, win ball games, be a force in the middle, and get them to the playoffs were put forth by himself and the team.  I feel he will fall short because he has not played a lick of ball in the NBA or with anyone on this team.

No I'm not making it sound like he needs to be the messiah.  That's Ted assuming things.   I'm making it sound like he needs to be the top player/franchise
player on this team.  Which is exactly what the Bobcats have made very clear to anyone paying attention.  When a team spends that kind of money on marketing for a single player that says something.  They could market the team as a whole and not single any one player out.  They are a fresh new team with no real proven star.    They have TV spots for him, banners all over town, and probably many other small deals.  All centered around Okafor.  If they didn't want him to be the leader and star player then they wouldn't try to put him in that situation with this marketing blitz.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2004, 03:59:43 PM by westkoast »
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Offline Derek Bodner

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How bad will Charlotte really be?
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2004, 04:17:12 PM »
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Which is exactly what the Bobcats have made very clear to anyone paying attention. When a team spends that kind of money on marketing for a single player that says something


What were they supposed to market, we have no star player, no hope, and no future/

Right now,  he's  a draft pick.  Draft picks are great unknowns.  They sell.  They generate excitement.  in a town that didn't support its old team, you have to generate excitement.  Marketing it off a collegiate champion that people have seen and that has a future is going to generate a lot more buzz than "hey, we have a team of castoffs!"