the first Debate

[SPURSX3]

Ok I saw the whole thing and I think Bush did better than Kerry.  Yes he Stammered, but the fact remains the only thing i heard from Kerry was the promises he cant back up.  He is going o the hope that we will have better foriegn relations - with no real communication or endorsement from any foreign leader.  how can he say that the billions spent in Iraq be better spent by him suach as going to health care and education, when he wants to increase military spending for supplies and possibly troops as well as go after nuclear arsenal left in former russian republics - that costs money and man power, where does that some from if we have over spent on the Iraq arena?  and in 4 years???  does ANYBODY believe that?  not only that but he changed his stance after the moderator pointed out that he voted for the Iraq resolution,  first Saddam was NOT a threat and President was wrong and then after the question was asked he said that he thought Saddam was a threat and he agreed with Bush in that Saddam needed to be gone - oh but through more resolutions....fast foward to the future, resolution 456 "Iraq better do as we say this time ...or else"  right.  I dont know i saw that the President spoke out of experience tonight, and I cant see that Kerry can back up ANY of the promises he says, the money he says could have been used better he himself has indicated would be used to other military expenses and missions.

[westkoast]

I thought it was alright on both sides for a "presidential debate" :rolleyes: .  Bush did bring up valid points but I swear my TiVO had a mind of its own rewinding the same comments over and over.  On top of that we are hearing the same crap from both of them that we have heard for a month now.  Where are the rest of the issues guys?  Yes Iraq, ok we got it...but what about HOME.   Cool we need to spend more money on weapons....but what about education?  Ok Kerry can't make up his mind and George cant use his....Roger that.

I think Kerry boosted that lame/boring image he earned himself.  What a true politican Kerry is......he easily jumps around issues.  Bush did exactly what I thought he would.  Be a moron.  I really felt like they both wasted my time.  Maybe I am expecting too much out of a debate for the most important government position in the world.

These debates are for people who are undecided, I don't think anyone on this board will give it to the person they are not voting for.   Or anyone else who has decided already for that matter.   We've  decided who we all are going to vote for so these debates are more for nitpicking the other person than anything else.  

[Guest_Dromedarius]

I'm a Republican, and it pains me to say I think Kerry won the debate tonight, but only by a decision. If this were a boxing match, he won, but I believe Bush landed the biggest blow, which is sometimes the case in boxing decisions. The comment, "The only thing my opponent is consistent on is being inconsistent" was a pretty good shot.

However, Bush failed to attack Kerry's Senate record, something which bothered me from the start. He could have gone after Kerry's refusal to go to intelligence meetings, even after 9/11, or how Kerry voted to reduce the military, despite the fact tonight he said he'd expand the military, or how Kerry voted to strip our nation's intelligence services of funding, or how he's voted against almost every major weapon's system, or the President's primary duty is to protect the country rather than doing a public opinion poll before every decision.

I don't think Kerry did any significant damage, but he did help himself STAY in the race, which is important. Bush had the chance to knock him out tonight, and he didn't. Just to reiterate, I believe Kerry won the debate, and Bush landed the biggest shot, although he could have put together a combo and ended the whole thing had he gone after Kerry's voting record, which stinks.

[Guest_Randy]

Well, this debate was a waste of our time, IMO, although I would agree with the assessment that Kerry claimed whatever victory there was.  Bush seemed agitated, off-guard and slumped for most of the debate while Kerry was VERY prepared (thanks to all his debating practice) for this debate.

However, Bush sidestepped every issue and just called Kerry a "wishy-washy wannabe leader."  While Kerry's barb was "look what you are doing in Iraq -- I would do it so much better, just because I say so."

First, Bush needs to stand up and answer questions -- about where he is going in Iraq, a detailed plan about what we are currently doing there and our primary objectives.  There were so many things that Kerry threw into the pot that Bush just ignored.  While he may not have had time to address ALL of those issues, he should have addressed a couple each time rather than just going back to his pat answer.

Second, Kerry did the same thing -- he sidestepped issues like his senate voting record -- IMO, Bush should have driven that home every opportunity last night.  Kerry tried to keep a broad view of his work in the Senate -- like he knew each world leader personally because of his great work in the Senate -- there's a ton he probably hasn't even met personally.  Kerry talked about his "plan" bringing home troops early and effectively winning the war in Iraq -- the problem is that I don't see much substance to that plan -- I don't really see a lot of difference in Kerry's plan than Bush's plan.  

This debate told us what we already know -- that Kerry can act confident but doesn't have a detailed plan to carry our country beyond where we are today and that Bush is simply more of the same.  We already knew that!

[spursfan101]

I think Kerry CLEARLY won the debate. If I was living on Mars and just happened to turn on my television set, I would assume that Kerry was the incumbant and Bush was the challenger.  Bush did his pausing, and his "ummms" which I have seen him do many times to his benefit. This time was different. Bush seemed like he didn't prepare well, seemed like he was winging it at times, and he looked really uncomfortable at times. To me, his best moment was when he thanked  Kerry and family. The charm came out at that point...but I only saw it at that point.

Kerry hammered his points, that Bush is set in his conviction, and he refuses to admit that mistakes have been made, and he's unwillingly to change course.  America knows the war is not going well, Bush conveys that it is, and I think the fact that he's not being up front with America is hurting him.

I saw something in Kerry that I liked last night. He's intelligent, well spoken, and more of a uniter than Bush is. Polls also indicate that Kerry handily won the debate.

Also find it interesting... Kerry set an e-mail to his consitutients saying "You have just seen the next President of the United States." One sentence i believe.  While the Bush camp sent a loooonngg winded e-mail to it's base going over Bushes points. More so, the points that Bush probably failed to um......um....make.

 

[spursfan101]

I think the majority of Americans just want thier mothers, fathers, sisters and brothers to come home. In Bush's view, that won't happen for a very long time. Kerry, while not conceding a massive pullout, sounds like deep down, that's what he wants.  And I think deep down, that's what most of America wants too.

Most Americans could care less that Iraqi's now can vote.  They just want America to get back on its feet, and they don't want their children to die in an unjust war.

ONLY JUST INVASTION OF A COUNTRY WAS AGAINST AFHGANISTAN.

[Derek Bodner]

I as well thought Kerry clearly won the debate yesterday.  While Kerry did talk about plans (as detailed as you can get in 2 minutes or less), talked about why he thought the war was bad and what the president was doing wrong, Bush talked stuck to his talking points and sound bytes and never deviated.  You never got the perception Bush was actually answering a question rather than spouting propoganda and trying to talk in "headlines".  I swore if Bush talked about how it was "hard work" or "holding his beliefs" one more time I was going to throw the remote through the tv.  Every question was answered the same, not answering the question but continuing to paint Kerry's image as he wanted it.  When it got time to move away from his sound bytes and into dialogue, he didn't handle it well.  Kerry's a much better orator, if nothing else.  That much should be very clear after last night.

Most importantly, public opinion has been widespread Kerry victory.  I haven't seen an online poll where the users said Bush won.  Of those voters who chose a winner:
- CNN had Kerry winning 79%-21%
- MSNBC had Kerry winning 65%-35%
- CBS had Kerry winning 63%-37%
- USATODAY had Kerry winning 59%-41%
- ABC had Kerry winning 54%-46%
Average among those outlets: Kerry 64% - Bush - 36%.

More importantly, 46% of those voted by USATODAY said they had a more favorable opinion of Kerry than they did before the debate, while only 13% said they had a less favorable opinion.  This is HUGE.  Before today Kerry's been staying close in polls, and largely based on anti-bush sentiment, NOT anything he's really done.  If he can not only get the anti-bush sentiment, but add onto that people actually liking HIM, then that will help his chances greatly.

Last night was a debate Kerry had to win based on timing.  Losing that would have amounted to momentum that may have been too much to overcome.  But as a topic, Foreign relations is a topic Bush MUST win.  Based on last night, I think Kerry cut into that big time.  If Bush doesn't win that spectrum of the political campaign, I don't think he has enough on his platform to be re-elected.

[spursfan101]

I found myself WANTING to vote for John Kerry instead of my previous stance of only voting AGAINST George Bush.

[spursfan101]

And for the next debate, I'm sure Bush will be well prepared, but if its going to be about domestic issues, I could see Bush tripping up. Especially with jobs being shipped overseas, millions of jobs lost, the tax cut, Kerry is going to hammer him for that.

[SPURSX3]

I think Kerry CLEARLY won the debate. If I was living on Mars and just happened to turn on my television set, I would assume that Kerry was the incumbant and Bush was the challenger.  Bush did his pausing, and his "ummms" which I have seen him do many times to his benefit. This time was different. Bush seemed like he didn't prepare well, seemed like he was winging it at times, and he looked really uncomfortable at times. To me, his best moment was when he thanked  Kerry and family. The charm came out at that point...but I only saw it at that point.

Kerry hammered his points, that Bush is set in his conviction, and he refuses to admit that mistakes have been made, and he's unwillingly to change course.  America knows the war is not going well, Bush conveys that it is, and I think the fact that he's not being up front with America is hurting him.

I saw something in Kerry that I liked last night. He's intelligent, well spoken, and more of a uniter than Bush is. Polls also indicate that Kerry handily won the debate.

Also find it interesting... Kerry set an e-mail to his consitutients saying "You have just seen the next President of the United States." One sentence i believe.  While the Bush camp sent a loooonngg winded e-mail to it's base going over Bushes points. More so, the points that Bush probably failed to um......um....make.

I jus find it hard to believe a man that says he is gonna send our troops more armorments and supplies yet he has voted against every military spending bill...

[Derek Bodner]

Which bill?

http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_category....can_id=S0421103

Great site to learn the details of the bill and educate yourself on WHY he voted against it, not just that he "voted against a spending bill"

[Derek Bodner]

And that's not a true comment.

http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_keyvote_de...can_id=S0421103

Senator John Forbes Kerry voted YES.

Vote to pass a bill authorizing $274 billion for military construction, military activities of the Defense Department, and defense activities of the Energy Department.

Not to mention other various veterans programs:
http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_keyvote_de...can_id=S0421103

or voting yes for the 2003 defense appropriations bill:
http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_keyvote_de...can_id=S0421103

[spursfan101]

I don't think you should be allowed to spread non-partisan facts on this board. It goes against everything that we believe and do here on this board dbobs!  :angry:  :up:  

[Ted]

Which bill?

http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_category....can_id=S0421103

Great site to learn the details of the bill and educate yourself on WHY he voted against it, not just that he "voted against a spending bill"

I think X3 is referring to the weapons systems Kerry has voted against, which include

The Apache
The Patriot
The Humvee
Troop Transport
M1 Bradley

I also have a question for people who have more info than I do: In his convention speech, Kerry said he'd increase the standing military forces by 40,000 troops. I was wondering, are we turning prospective troops away right now? And what would 40,000 troops cost?

[Ted]

I don't think you should be allowed to spread non-partisan facts on this board. It goes against everything that we believe and do here on this board dbobs!  :angry:  :up:

Geez, 101, you've got to calm down just a bit. "Dbobs." What is that, like 18 posts in 15 minutes?

Take your time, breath, and understand that X3 WAS citing non-partisan facts.