Author Topic: My Letter from John Kerry!  (Read 8377 times)

Offline spursfan101

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My Letter from John Kerry!
« on: September 20, 2004, 02:17:24 PM »
Dear Supporter,

This election is about choices. The most important choices a president makes are about protecting America at home and around the world. A president's first obligation is to make America safer, stronger and truer to our ideals.

Three years ago, the events of September 11 reminded every American of that obligation. That day brought to our shores the defining struggle of our times: the struggle between freedom and radical fundamentalism. And it made clear that our most important task is to fight and to win the war on terrorism.

In fighting the war on terrorism, my principles are straight forward. The terrorists are beyond reason. We must destroy them. As president, I will do whatever it takes, as long as it takes, to defeat our enemies. But billions of people around the world yearning for a better life are open to America's ideals. We must reach them.

To win, America must be strong. And America must be smart. The greatest threat we face is the possibility Al Qaeda or other terrorists will get their hands on a nuclear weapon.

To prevent that from happening, we must call on the totality of America's strength -- strong alliances, to help us stop the world's most lethal weapons from falling into the most dangerous hands. A powerful military, transformed to meet the new threats of terrorism and the spread of weapons of mass destruction. And all of America's power -- our diplomacy, our intelligence system, our economic power, the appeal of our values -- each of which is critical to making America more secure and preventing a new generation of terrorists from emerging.

National security is a central issue in this campaign. We owe it to the American people to have a real debate about the choices President Bush has made and the choices I would make to fight and win the war on terror.

That means we must have a great honest national debate on Iraq. The president claims it is the centerpiece of his war on terror. In fact, Iraq was a profound diversion from that war and the battle against our greatest enemy, Osama bin Laden and the terrorists. Invading Iraq has created a crisis of historic proportions and, if we do not change course, there is the prospect of a war with no end in sight.

This month, we passed a cruel milestone: more than 1,000 Americans lost in Iraq. Their sacrifice reminds us that Iraq remains, overwhelmingly, an American burden. Nearly 90 percent of the troops -- and nearly 90 percent of the casualties -- are American. Despite the president's claims, this is not a grand coalition.

Our troops have served with extraordinary bravery, skill and resolve. Their service humbles all of us. When I speak to them when I look into the eyes of their families, I know this: we owe them the truth about what we have asked them to do and what is still to be done.

In June, the president declared, "The Iraqi people have their country back." Just last week, he told us: "This country is headed toward democracy. Freedom is on the march."

But the administration's own official intelligence estimate, given to the president last July, tells a very different story.

According to press reports, the intelligence estimate totally contradicts what the president is saying to the American people.

So do the facts on the ground.

Security is deteriorating, for us and for the Iraqis.

42 Americans died in Iraq in June -- the month before the handover. But 54 died in July -- 66 in August and already 54 halfway through September.

And more than 1,100 Americans were wounded in August -- more than in any other month since the invasion.

We are fighting a growing insurgency in an ever widening war-zone. In March, insurgents attacked our forces 700 times. In August, they attacked 2,700 times -- a 400% increase.

Falluja, Ramadi, Samarra, even parts of Baghdad -- are now "no go zones" -- breeding grounds for terrorists who are free to plot and launch attacks against our soldiers. The radical Shiite cleric, Muqtada al-Sadr, who is accused of complicity in the murder of Americans, holds more sway in the suburbs of Baghdad.

Violence against Iraqis from bombings to kidnappings to intimidation is on the rise.

Basic living conditions are also deteriorating.

Residents of Baghdad are suffering electricity blackouts lasting up to 14 hours a day.

Raw sewage fills the streets, rising above the hubcaps of our Humvees. Children wade through garbage on their way to school.

Unemployment is over 50 percent. Insurgents are able to find plenty of people willing to take $150 for tossing grenades at passing U.S. convoys.

Yes, there has been some progress, thanks to the extraordinary efforts of our soldiers and civilians in Iraq. Schools, shops and hospitals have been opened. In parts of Iraq, normalcy actually prevails.

But most Iraqis have lost faith in our ability to deliver meaningful improvements to their lives. So they're sitting on the fence instead of siding with us against the insurgents.

That is the truth -- the truth that the commander in chief owes to our troops and the American people.

It is never easy to discuss what has gone wrong while our troops are in constant danger. But it's essential if we want to correct our course and do what's right for our troops instead of repeating the same mistakes over and over again.

I know this dilemma first-hand. After serving in war, I returned home to offer my own personal voice of dissent. I did so because I believed strongly that we owed it those risking their lives to speak truth to power. We still do.

Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator who deserves his own special place in hell. But that was not, in itself, a reason to go to war. The satisfaction we take in his downfall does not hide this fact: we have traded a dictator for a chaos that has left America less secure.

The president has said that he "miscalculated" in Iraq and that it was a "catastrophic success." In fact, the president has made a series of catastrophic decisions from the beginning in Iraq. At every fork in the road, he has taken the wrong turn and led us in the wrong direction.

The first and most fundamental mistake was the president's failure to tell the truth to the American people.

He failed to tell the truth about the rationale for going to war. And he failed to tell the truth about the burden this war would impose on our soldiers and our citizens.

By one count, the president offered 23 different rationales for this war. If his purpose was to confuse and mislead the American people, he succeeded.

His two main rationales -- weapons of mass destruction and the Al Qaeda/September 11 connection -- have been proved false by the president's own weapons inspectors and by the 9/11 Commission. Just last week, Secretary of State Powell acknowledged the facts. Only Vice President Cheney still insists that the earth is flat.

The president also failed to level with the American people about what it would take to prevail in Iraq.

He didn't tell us that well over 100,000 troops would be needed, for years, not months. He didn't tell us that he wouldn't take the time to assemble a broad and strong coalition of allies. He didn't tell us that the cost would exceed $200 billion. He didn't tell us that even after paying such a heavy price, success was far from assured.

And America will pay an even heavier price for the president's lack of candor.

At home, the American people are less likely to trust this administration if it needs to summon their support to meet real and pressing threats to our security.

Abroad, other countries will be reluctant to follow America when we seek to rally them against a common menace -- as they are today. Our credibility in the world has plummeted.

In the dark days of the Cuban Missile Crisis, President Kennedy sent former Secretary of State Dean Acheson to Europe to build support. Acheson explained the situation to French President de Gaulle. Then he offered to show him highly classified satellite photos, as proof. De Gaulle waved the photos away, saying: "The word of the president of the United States is good enough for me."

How many world leaders have that same trust in America's president, today?

This president's failure to tell the truth to us before the war has been exceeded by fundamental errors of judgment during and after the war.

The president now admits to "miscalculations" in Iraq.

That is one of the greatest understatements in recent American history. His were not the equivalent of accounting errors. They were colossal failures of judgment -- and judgment is what we look for in a president.

This is all the more stunning because we're not talking about 20/20 hindsight. Before the war, before he chose to go to war, bi-partisan Congressional hearings... major outside studies... and even some in the administration itself... predicted virtually every problem we now face in Iraq.

This president was in denial. He hitched his wagon to the ideologues who surround him, filtering out those who disagreed, including leaders of his own party and the uniformed military. The result is a long litany of misjudgments with terrible consequences.

The administration told us we'd be greeted as liberators. They were wrong.

They told us not to worry about looting or the sorry state of Iraq's infrastructure. They were wrong.

They told us we had enough troops to provide security and stability, defeat the insurgents, guard the borders and secure the arms depots. They were wrong.

They told us we could rely on exiles like Ahmed Chalabi to build political legitimacy. They were wrong.

They told us we would quickly restore an Iraqi civil service to run the country and a police force and army to secure it. They were wrong.

In Iraq, this administration has consistently over-promised and under-performed. This policy has been plagued by a lack of planning, an absence of candor, arrogance and outright incompetence. And the president has held no one accountable, including himself.

In fact, the only officials who lost their jobs over Iraq were the ones who told the truth.

General Shinseki said it would take several hundred thousand troops to secure Iraq. He was retired. Economic adviser Larry Lindsey said that Iraq would cost as much as $200 billion. He was fired. After the successful entry into Baghdad, George Bush was offered help from the UN -- and he rejected it. He even prohibited any nation from participating in reconstruction efforts that wasn't part of the original coalition -- pushing reluctant countries even farther away. As we continue to fight this war almost alone, it is hard to estimate how costly that arrogant decision was. Can anyone seriously say this president has handled Iraq in a way that makes us stronger in the war on terrorism?

By any measure, the answer is no. Nuclear dangers have mounted across the globe. The international terrorist club has expanded. Radicalism in the Middle East is on the rise. We have divided our friends and united our enemies. And our standing in the world is at an all time low.

Think about it for a minute. Consider where we were... and where we are. After the events of September 11, we had an opportunity to bring our country and the world together in the struggle against the terrorists. On September 12, headlines in newspapers abroad declared "we are all Americans now." But through his policy in Iraq, the president squandered that moment and rather than isolating the terrorists, left America isolated from the world.

We now know that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction and posed no imminent threat to our security. It had not, as the vice president claimed, "reconstituted nuclear weapons."

The president's policy in Iraq took our attention and resources away from other, more serious threats to America.

Threats like North Korea, which actually has weapons of mass destruction, including a nuclear arsenal, and is building more under this president's watch -- the emerging nuclear danger from Iran -- the tons and kilotons of unsecured chemical and nuclear weapons in Russia -- and the increasing instability in Afghanistan.

Today, warlords again control much of that country, the Taliban is regrouping, opium production is at an all time high and the Al Qaeda leadership still plots and plans, not only there but in 60 other nations. Instead of using U.S. forces, we relied on the warlords to capture Osama bin Laden when he was cornered in the mountains. He slipped away. We then diverted our focus and forces from the hunt for those responsible for September 11 in order invade Iraq.

We know Iraq played no part in September 11 and had no operational ties to Al Qaeda.

The president's policy in Iraq precipitated the very problem he said he was trying to prevent. Secretary of State Powell admits that Iraq was not a magnet for international terrorists before the war. Now it is, and they are operating against our troops. Iraq is becoming a sanctuary for a new generation of terrorists who someday could hit the United States.

We know that while Iraq was a source of friction, it was not previously a source of serious disagreement with our allies in Europe and countries in the Muslim world.

The president's policy in Iraq divided our oldest alliance and sent our standing in the Muslim world into free fall. Three years after 9/11, even in many moderate Muslim countries like Jordan, Morocco, and Turkey, Osama bin Laden is more popular than the United States of America.

Let me put it plainly: The president's policy in Iraq has not strengthened our national security. It has weakened it.

Two years ago, Congress was right to give the president the authority to use force to hold Saddam Hussein accountable. This president, any president would have needed the threat of force to act effectively. This president misused that authority.

The power entrusted to the president gave him a strong hand to play in the international community. The idea was simple. We would get the weapons inspectors back in to verify whether or not Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. And we would convince the world to speak with one voice to Saddam: disarm or be disarmed.

A month before the war, President Bush told the nation: "If we have to act, we will take every precaution that is possible. We will plan carefully. We will act with the full power of the United States military. We will act with allies at our side and we will prevail." He said that military action wasn't "unavoidable."

Instead, the president rushed to war without letting the weapons inspectors finish their work. He went without a broad and deep coalition of allies. He acted without making sure our troops had enough body armor. And he plunged ahead without understanding or preparing for the consequences of the post-war. None of which I would have done.

Yet today, President Bush tells us that he would do everything all over again, the same way. How can he possibly be serious? Is he really saying that if we knew there were no imminent threat, no weapons of mass destruction, no ties to Al Qaeda, the United States should have invaded Iraq? My answer is no -- because a commander in chief's first responsibility is to make a wise and responsible decision to keep America safe.

Now the president, in looking for a new reason, tries to hang his hat on the "capability" to acquire weapons. But that was not the reason given to the nation; it was not the reason Congress voted on; it's not a reason, it's an excuse. Thirty-five to forty countries have greater capability to build a nuclear bomb than Iraq did in 2003. Is President Bush saying we should invade them?

I would have concentrated our power and resources on defeating global terrorism and capturing or killing Osama bin Laden. I would have tightened the noose and continued to pressure and isolate Saddam Hussein -- who was weak and getting weaker -- so that he would pose no threat to the region or America.

The president's insistence that he would do the same thing all over again in Iraq is a clear warning for the future. And it makes the choice in this election clear: more of the same with President Bush or a new direction that makes our troops and America safer. It is time, at long last, to ask the questions and insist on the answers from the commander in chief about his serious misjudgments and what they tell us about his administration and the president himself. If George W. Bush is re-elected, he will cling to the same failed policies in Iraq -- and he will repeat, somewhere else, the same reckless mistakes that have made America less secure than we can or should be.

In Iraq, we have a mess on our hands. But we cannot throw up our hands. We cannot afford to see Iraq become a permanent source of terror that will endanger America's security for years to come.

All across this country people ask me what we should do now. Every step of the way, from the time I first spoke about this in the Senate, I have set out specific recommendations about how we should and should not proceed. But over and over, when this administration has been presented with a reasonable alternative, they have rejected it and gone their own way. This is stubborn incompetence.

Five months ago, in Fulton, Missouri, I said that the president was close to his last chance to get it right. Every day, this president makes it more difficult to deal with Iraq -- harder than it was five months ago, harder than it was a year ago. It is time to recognize what is -- and what is not -- happening in Iraq today. And we must act with urgency.

Just this weekend, a leading Republican, Chuck Hagel, said we're "in deep trouble in Iraq ... it doesn't add up ... to a pretty picture [and] ... we're going to have to look at a recalibration of our policy." Republican leaders like Dick Lugar and John McCain have offered similar assessments.

We need to turn the page and make a fresh start in Iraq.

First, the president has to get the promised international support so our men and women in uniform don't have to go it alone. It is late; the president must respond by moving this week to gain and regain international support.

Last spring, after too many months of resistance and delay, the president finally went back to the U.N. which passed Resolution 1546. It was the right thing to do -- but it was late.

That resolution calls on U.N. members to help in Iraq by providing troops, trainers for Iraq's security forces, a special brigade to protect the U.N. mission, more financial assistance, and real debt relief.

Three months later, not a single country has answered that call. And the president acts as if it doesn't matter.

And of the $13 billion previously pledged to Iraq by other countries, only $1.2 billion has been delivered.

The president should convene a summit meeting of the world's major powers and Iraq's neighbors, this week, in New York, where many leaders will attend the U.N. General Assembly. He should insist that they make good on that U.N. resolution. He should offer potential troop contributors specific, but critical roles, in training Iraqi security personnel and securing Iraq's borders. He should give other countries a stake in Iraq's future by encouraging them to help develop Iraq's oil resources and by letting them bid on contracts instead of locking them out of the reconstruction process.

This will be difficult. I and others have repeatedly recommended this from the very beginning. Delay has made only made it harder. After insulting allies and shredding alliances, this president may not have the trust and confidence to bring others to our side in Iraq. But we cannot hope to succeed unless we rebuild and lead strong alliances so that other nations share the burden with us. That is the only way to succeed.

Second, the president must get serious about training Iraqi security forces.

Last February, Secretary Rumsfeld claimed that more than 210,000 Iraqis were in uniform. Two weeks ago, he admitted that claim was exaggerated by more than 50 percent. Iraq, he said, now has 95,000 trained security forces.

But guess what? Neither number bears any relationship to the truth. For example, just 5,000 Iraqi soldiers have been fully trained, by the administration's own minimal standards. And of the 35,000 police now in uniform, not one has completed a 24-week field-training program. Is it any wonder that Iraqi security forces can't stop the insurgency or provide basic law and order?

The president should urgently expand the security forces training program inside and outside Iraq. He should strengthen the vetting of recruits, double classroom training time, and require follow-on field training. He should recruit thousands of qualified trainers from our allies, especially those who have no troops in Iraq. He should press our NATO allies to open training centers in their countries. And he should stop misleading the American people with phony, inflated numbers.

Third, the president must carry out a reconstruction plan that finally brings tangible benefits to the Iraqi people.

Last week, the administration admitted that its plan was a failure when it asked Congress for permission to radically revise spending priorities in Iraq. It took 17 months for them to understand that security is a priority, 17 months to figure out that boosting oil production is critical, 17 months to conclude that an Iraqi with a job is less likely to shoot at our soldiers.

One year ago, the administration asked for and received $18 billion to help the Iraqis and relieve the conditions that contribute to the insurgency. Today, less than a $1 billion of those funds have actually been spent. I said at the time that we had to rethink our policies and set standards of accountability. Now we're paying the price.

Now, the president should look at the whole reconstruction package, draw up a list of high visibility, quick impact projects, and cut through the red tape. He should use more Iraqi contractors and workers, instead of big corporations like Halliburton. He should stop paying companies under investigation for fraud or corruption. And he should fire the civilians in the Pentagon responsible for mismanaging the reconstruction effort.

Fourth, the president must take immediate, urgent, essential steps to guarantee the promised elections can be held next year.

Credible elections are key to producing an Iraqi government that enjoys the support of the Iraqi people and an assembly to write a Constitution that yields a viable power sharing arrangement.

Because Iraqis have no experience holding free and fair elections, the president agreed six months ago that the U.N. must play a central role. Yet today, just four months before Iraqis are supposed to go to the polls, the U.N. Secretary General and administration officials themselves say the elections are in grave doubt. Because the security situation is so bad and because not a single country has offered troops to protect the U.N. elections mission, the U.N. has less than 25 percent of the staff it needs in Iraq to get the job done.

The president should recruit troops from our friends and allies for a U.N. protection force. This won't be easy. But even countries that refused to put boots on the ground in Iraq should still help protect the U.N. We should also intensify the training of Iraqis to manage and guard the polling places that need to be opened. Otherwise, U.S forces would end up bearing those burdens alone.

If the president would move in this direction, if he would bring in more help from other countries to provide resources and forces, train the Iraqis to provide their own security, develop a reconstruction plan that brings real benefits to the Iraqi people, and take the steps necessary to hold credible elections next year -- we could begin to withdraw U.S. forces starting next summer and realistically aim to bring all our troops home within the next four years.

This is what has to be done. This is what I would do as president today. But we cannot afford to wait until January. President Bush owes it to the American people to tell the truth and put Iraq on the right track. Even more, he owes it to our troops and their families, whose sacrifice is a testament to the best of America.

The principles that should guide American policy in Iraq now and in the future are clear: We must make Iraq the world's responsibility, because the world has a stake in the outcome and others should share the burden. We must effectively train Iraqis, because they should be responsible for their own security. We must move forward with reconstruction, because that's essential to stop the spread of terror. And we must help Iraqis achieve a viable government, because it's up to them to run their own country. That's the right way to get the job done and bring our troops home.

On May 1 of last year, President Bush stood in front of a now infamous banner that read "Mission Accomplished." He declared to the American people: "In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed." In fact, the worst part of the war was just beginning, with the greatest number of American casualties still to come. The president misled, miscalculated, and mismanaged every aspect of this undertaking and he has made the achievement of our objective -- a stable Iraq, secure within its borders, with a representative government, harder to achieve.

In Iraq, this administration's record is filled with bad predictions, inaccurate cost estimates, deceptive statements and errors of judgment of historic proportions.

At every critical juncture in Iraq, and in the war on terrorism, the president has made the wrong choice. I have a plan to make America stronger.

The president often says that in a post 9/11 world, we can't hesitate to act. I agree. But we should not act just for the sake of acting. I believe we have to act wisely and responsibly.

George Bush has no strategy for Iraq. I do.

George Bush has not told the truth to the American people about why we went to war and how the war is going. I have and I will continue to do so.

I believe the invasion of Iraq has made us less secure and weaker in the war against terrorism. I have a plan to fight a smarter, more effective war on terror -- and make us safer.

Today, because of George Bush's policy in Iraq, the world is a more dangerous place for America and Americans.

If you share my conviction that we can not go on as we are that we can make America stronger and safer than it is then November 2 is your chance to speak and to be heard. It is not a question of staying the course, but of changing the course.

I'm convinced that with the right leadership, we can create a fresh start and move more effectively to accomplish our goals. Our troops have served with extraordinary courage and commitment. For their sake, and America's sake, we must get this right. We must do everything in our power to complete the mission and make America stronger at home and respected again in the world.

Thank you, God bless you, and God bless the United States of America.


 
Paul

Offline spursfan101

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My Letter from John Kerry!
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2004, 02:25:08 PM »
And here's my e-mail from Dick Cheney!!

"On Nov. 2nd, we as Americans have a critical choice. If we make the wrong choice we'll almost certainly be attacked by hordes of devil-worshipping murderers who will blow up our cities, rape our women and slaughter our children. However, if we make the right choice we'll continue to live in a safe, secure country, with low taxes and a plentiful supply of cheap oil from our very own national parks.

It's simple: make the right choice - low taxes, cheap gas; make the wrong choice - torture and death at the hands of freedom-hating savages.

What will your choice be?"

(
Paul

Offline SPURSX3

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My Letter from John Kerry!
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2004, 02:54:49 PM »
Quote
And here's my e-mail from Dick Cheney!!

"On Nov. 2nd, we as Americans have a critical choice. If we make the wrong choice we'll almost certainly be attacked by hordes of devil-worshipping murderers who will blow up our cities, rape our women and slaughter our children. However, if we make the right choice we'll continue to live in a safe, secure country, with low taxes and a plentiful supply of cheap oil from our very own national parks.

It's simple: make the right choice - low taxes, cheap gas; make the wrong choice - torture and death at the hands of freedom-hating savages.

What will your choice be?"

(
my email from Bush just said, "Awe shucks!  thanks for voting for me pardner."
On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.

Offline spursfan101

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My Letter from John Kerry!
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2004, 03:07:26 PM »
More like...

"aw shucks, sorry I lied to ya good folks. We have some whipper snappers who'r causin problems in BFE, I just didn't have da heart to be honest wit ya. And sure I didn't have enug evidence to go to war, but heck, they were gonna attack my pa... "
Paul

Offline SPURSX3

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My Letter from John Kerry!
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2004, 03:09:30 PM »
Quote
More like...

"aw shucks, sorry I lied to ya good folks. We have some whipper snappers who'r causin problems in BFE, I just didn't have da heart to be honest wit ya. And sure I didn't have enug evidence to go to war, but heck, they were gonna attack my pa... "
lol!


signed  


"YEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAW!!!  SOMEBODY GET A ROPE AND MY TWEASERS I'M GONNA PLUCK ME AN AL QAEDA!!"
On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.

Offline Joe Vancil

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My Letter from John Kerry!
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2004, 04:33:41 PM »
First of all, let me say that I don't necessarily disagree with Kerry's points.  What he proposes COULD work.

There's a huge "if" attached to that, though.  *IF* the United Nations had any sort of meaningful authority.

Kerry expresses a belief in the UN that I do not share.  I watched as the UN passed resolution after resolution on Iraq.  I watched as Iraq booted their weapons inspectors out of the country, not to return for over a year...perhaps over two.  I watched as the UN proposed and threatened and *SAT*.  Saddam Hussein couldn't have shown more contempt if the Iraqi UN ambassador had said, "Oh, yes - the inspectors are welcome back...PSYCHE!" in front of the full assembly.  He gambled with the UN AND HE WON.

Say what you want about Bush - I personally consider the man a THIEF - but I'll give him his due credit for this:  when he threatened, Iraq acted.  The weapons inspectors were back.  And if there were *ANY* problem, I was all for going to war.  I was all for going to war the moment that the weapons inspectors got tossed out under Clinton.

And old flag used to read "Don't Tread On Me".  Under Bush, that means something.  Waiting for the UN to agree?  Forget it.

I agree that power should not be used as a club, but I also agree that power unwielded becomes meaningless.  With the UN lacking meaningful power, a p-o'ed US is the only thing that seems threatening to many of these countries.  If Kerry waits on the UN to act, he WON'T act.

Have we found WMD's?  No.  Have we been justified in going into Iraq?  In my eyes, absolutely.  We found research on prohibited solid-fuel missiles.  We found missiles exceeding the limit that was imposed at the end of the first Gulf War.  We found research - declared by Iraq to weapons inspectors - on unmanned vehicles, prohibited by the agreement at the end of the war.  And there is claim from defecting Iraqis that this unmanned vehicle was designed for the delivery of biological agents...which we've not found.  While that's not what I was EXPECTING we'd find, that's enough.

America must take the stand of "You don't want to be our enemy."  Iraq made that mistake.  Due to action in Iraq, Libya - who didn't want to be next - has started paying heed to the international community.  That's progress.

A famous basketball quote (I do come here to talk basketball, you know) is, "No one cheers for Goliath."  No one cheers for the U.S....until the world needs us.  "We are all Americans now" isn't a statement of profound sorrow and regret on the part of the world for what happened on 9-11;  no one says, "We're all Russians now" in the wake of the recent happenings in the school incident.  The reason everyone reacts differently is because America *WILL* act - and they're known to hold grudges.

If you want to see UN involvement, pull the US troops out of Iraq completely and immediately.  Let the UN send their own troops.  And you know what?  THEY WON'T.  And, yes, that's a condemnation of their inability or unwillingness - whichever one it is - to act.  The moment that the UN inspectors were thrown out, the UN should have gone into Iraq with troops.

People say the U.S. is being a bully.  Say what you want, but bullies tend to be pretty safe.  And they stay safe by flexing their muscles from time to time when they're challenged.  Al-Quaeda challenged us.  We bombed Afghanistan, and then went to our second-worst enemy, and we eliminated a thorn in our side.  There've been no more major terrorist incidents in the United States since that time.  And while we're willing to act - to back up our words with our armed forces if need be - there won't be.

Has Iraq been handled well?  No.  But it has been and is being handled.  Kerry as much as tells me he wouldn't have done it...he'd still be waiting on the UN.  That convinces me that, like Bush, Kerry is the wrong man for the job - just for different reasons.  For Bush - it's incompetence.  For Kerry - it's unwillingness.

I'm a harsh critic of former President Jimmy Carter.  I blame him for a lot of the problems we had from 1976 to 1980.  I do think he's an honorable man, and I think he'd make a great Ambassador to the UN, but as a President, he wasn't good.  And he made an AWFUL Commander-In-Chief except for one brief moment:  when he sent helicopters to try to get our folks out of Iran.  The mission was a disaster - but it was a necessary attempt, and I support Carter fully in that one thing.  And that's the same way I support Bush in the Iraq disaster.

Al-Quaeda has been busy lately...and that's fine.  Let them burn their bridges with other countries.  Al-Quaeda doesn't help build infrastructures for its friends...we do.  And Al-Quaeda declared itself our enemy the moment the terrorists boarded those airplanes on 9-11.  If they continue messing with us, they can see a glaring example of what we'll be willing to do to them in Iraq.  The fact is that BECAUSE we're willing to act, it does make us a less tempting target in many regards - even though they might *WANT* us as a target more.

Kerry's right about the execution, but not for the reasons he's claiming - that Bush did the wrong thing by going.  Bush was RIGHT to go - and go quickly...he just did a poor job of it.
Joe

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Offline westkoast

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« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2004, 05:31:43 PM »
Yes the UN was sluggish in acting on Sadaam.  This second time around they were the same way because they felt there was not enough intelligence to attack Iraq for the reasons the US stated.  They were right.  There was not enough information to goto war, but we went anyways.  The end result was us not finding anything, loosing a thousand lives, and throwing Iraq into turmoil.  As much as I agree about the UN being like a soccer mom and pretending Iraq didn't do anything wrong (the whole inspector ordeal) they were right.  Now the US has to shoulder the blame of what happens to Iraq, spend billions all by ourselves, and use all our own man power to get the job done.  I'll go as far to say that if we had stuck with the UN that we would have had more help, our administration would have formed a better plan, and our allies wouldnt view us as some hot shot cowboy country that is reckless.  With all that said, I agree we cant always be a hippy nation.  Instead of being a bully who rushes head first out of rage to attack someone smaller than themselves.....why can't we be a pro boxer who studies the person he is fighting very carefully before they jump into the ring with them?

I also dont think that just because we have yet to be attacked on our own soil that we are in better shape.  No major attacks have been close together.  The first world trade center bombing came 9 years prior to 9/11.  I hate to see Bush get an A+ because we havent been attacked since....but if Kerry was to be elected and we got attacked it would be his fault.  
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Offline spursfan101

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« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2004, 08:29:30 AM »
The UN TRIED to come in and help us with the rebuilding process, but Bush TURNED THEM AWAY because they didn't help with the liberation. Nice move Einstein. Now your begging for their help.
Paul

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« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2004, 08:45:01 AM »
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The UN TRIED to come in and help us with the rebuilding process, but Bush TURNED THEM AWAY because they didn't help with the liberation. Nice move Einstein. Now your begging for their help.
your acting as if the UN was this great humanitarian body that we turned away.  the major players in the UN only wanted and still want control of Iraqs assets as much as we do.  there are contracts and big money to be made if anybody can get a foot hold in Iraq.  I agree with Bushes stance to leave them out of everything, they didnt risk life and limb in the first place why shoul dthey take the spoils of war??  screw the UN, and the European union, Bush did the right thing by leaving them out at first.  stupid cheese eating surrender monkeys are the worst of them, they didnt send troops, but hey they sent contractors in as soon as they got the chance didnt they?  you think it was for the good of the people that they are there?  heck no, they are trying to exploit Iraq as much as any body else.
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« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2004, 08:46:40 AM »
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Yes the UN was sluggish in acting on Sadaam.  This second time around they were the same way because they felt there was not enough intelligence to attack Iraq for the reasons the US stated.  They were right.  There was not enough information to goto war, but we went anyways.  The end result was us not finding anything, loosing a thousand lives, and throwing Iraq into turmoil.  As much as I agree about the UN being like a soccer mom and pretending Iraq didn't do anything wrong (the whole inspector ordeal) they were right.  Now the US has to shoulder the blame of what happens to Iraq, spend billions all by ourselves, and use all our own man power to get the job done.  I'll go as far to say that if we had stuck with the UN that we would have had more help, our administration would have formed a better plan, and our allies wouldnt view us as some hot shot cowboy country that is reckless.  With all that said, I agree we cant always be a hippy nation.  Instead of being a bully who rushes head first out of rage to attack someone smaller than themselves.....why can't we be a pro boxer who studies the person he is fighting very carefully before they jump into the ring with them?

I also dont think that just because we have yet to be attacked on our own soil that we are in better shape.  No major attacks have been close together.  The first world trade center bombing came 9 years prior to 9/11.  I hate to see Bush get an A+ because we havent been attacked since....but if Kerry was to be elected and we got attacked it would be his fault.
I never cease to be amazed at people who sit back and critique decisions -- how many decisions have you made that would withstand this kind of scrutiny.  Do I think mistakes have been made?  Absolutely!  Those mistakes include:  Bush Senior not finishing the job when he was President, Clinton sitting on his butt while Iraq snubbed it's nose at the entire world and kicked the UN Inspectors out of Iraq -- however, people want to make this all about WMD -- but Bush made it VERY clear that Iraq had this much time to let inspectors in and do their job -- when that time was up, we went to war.  And countries like France and Germany have sat back and went on a public crusade to paint America like a bully -- why?  Because they both had tremendous economic reasons for doing so -- they wanted something from Iraq that wouldn't happen if Iraq was a free country and away from the regime of Saddam.  Am I saying that Bush has done everything right?  No, absolutely not -- if our goal was just to go over and take out Saddam, we could have done that with a lot less trouble than we currently have.  But there ARE people in Iraq who want to be a FREE democratic country -- they want their daughters to go to school and learn and not be a piece of property without any rights -- they want to be able to experience free enterprise and free choice without a government based on religion that persecutes anyone who thinks otherwise -- they want a government based on the will of the people, rather than the will of a dictator.  And what is the world doing?  They are more focused on Bush as a person than helping the Iraqi people.  That sentiment helps present an atmosphere that terrorists don't need, IMO.  You can disagree with Bush, you can hate him but why not help the average Iraqi person who wants a democratic country?

And I love Kerry's promises -- they are as empty as most of the rhetoric we hear from politicians.  Name ONE time the UN has acted -- about anything -- without a strong push from the United States?  It hasn't happened and it WON'T happen!  The UN has a long history of being inactive -- sitting and discussing the issue and NEVER acting -- it's only when the US has pushed things that the UN acts.  The US IS the main factor in the UN and let's face it -- most of those countries are EXACTLY like France -- they could care LESS about what happens to other countries -- they only care about themselves!  The world is a fickle place -- I used to have a Nigerian who hated the US (even though he decided to come to the US to study because of our great education system, free enterprise and the fact that he and his friends could run up huge credit card bills, phone bills, utility bills, etc. and then just go back home without paying for it) -- why did he hate the US (along with a lot of his countrymen)?  Because Nigeria wanted money -- money to become more advanced in the area of technology and infrastructure -- so they came to the US to borrow money -- the US loaned them money -- money that became obvious that they can't pay back and so he and his friends hated the US because we gave them what they asked for and we won't just forget and forgive the huge loans that THEY asked for!  Kerry makes promises -- to get the world community together -- PLEASE!!!  He doesn't even believe he can do that!  He CAN'T believe he can do that!  Right now most every country in the world is focused on themselves and what's best for them -- how many countries help out other countries financially when huge catastrophes occur?  The US and Brittain?  That's about it!  So why do we expect countries to all of the sudden begin developing an unselfish attitude when it comes to the concerns of the rest of the world?

It's a fine line between policeman and bully -- and sometimes things can be painted in a bad light.  I once witnessed a fight between a very large man and four police officers -- the guy they were trying to take down had punched someone and broke his nose and then hit the police officer who tried to take him in.  Four other officers joined the fight in trying to take the guy down -- all armed with nightsticks, it appeared that they were brutally beating this guy -- but the rest of the story was that the guy was so loaded on PCP that he didn't even realize he was being hit.  He broke the first officers arm and fractured another officers wrist.  However, if anyone had a video camera at that point, it would have been presented as another police "beating" -- four on one!  Sometimes, reality needs more than a backwards glance.

Offline westkoast

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« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2004, 10:10:38 AM »
It never ceases to amaze me that you are like the 3rd son of George Bush Sr.  Randy... as a tax paying, voting American I am entitled to critique any decision made by the government that effects me, my family, or the people around me.  That is part of democrary buddy.  That is how this system works, the people are the voice and part of that  is speaking your mind.   Whether it be with other voting Americans, in a debate, at  a school, or in the polls.   God forbid we have millions of Randy's running around the US right now getting brown goo on the end of their nose from the presidents rear end like he did this country such a great serive the last 2 years.  Dont get me wrong he did a fine job boosting the morale of the US after 9/11....but aside from that he has done very little to deserve this constant e-buttlicking he recieves from you.    What makes me laugh the most is you always rant about Kerry's promises and how hallow they are, even tho the guy has no way of doing anything until hes president.......but seem to "forget" about the promises and statements Bush has given the people of the US .  We were told we would see a boost in the economy.  We were told the war in Iraq was won.  We were even told that America is safer than ever.  None of which are about as hallow as anything Kerry has said (according to you), except for that one important fact that Bush actually has alot of power in the US.  If you think America is safer now than before because you wait at the airport longer you are sadly mistaken.  Right now I can tell you that a large number of water treatment plants in Southern California are vulnerable.  This isnt some kind of Michael Moore statement either....I work for a large engineering firm that is in the water and waste water treatment industry.  Some of the work the company does is provide assessments on the vulnerability of the treatment plants.

Randy think back to when the apple of your eye addressed all us American's on national television.  I believe the underlining reason we were going to war was because Bush and his staff felt that Iraq was possing a threat to the United States because they had weapons of mass destruction.  How can you honestly say you don't understand why this is all about weapons of mass destruction?  We wouldn't have put forth thousands and thousands of US lives, billions of US dollars, shrugged off our allies, and possibly broke international law because Sadaam is a bad bad guy to his people.  Sadaam was plotting to blow us up ( :rolleyes: ).  Maybe if Bush stressed another reason on why he needed to rally US support so quickly people wouldnt bring it up.  He did not so how can you expect people to talk about Sadaam spitting in the UNs face like they would WMDs?  That wasn't the reason we went in the first place.  That sounds like a Bush (and in your case Bush supporter) excuse because we found nothing.

edit: btw Randy...when your decisions directly effect millions and millions of people in the US, middle east, and abroad they are always going to be held under scrutiny.  That's part of the job.  Its not ok to critique Bush's decisions that effect us all.....but its ok to critique Kerry's decisions on where it should go from here?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2004, 10:26:09 AM by westkoast »
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Offline spursfan101

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« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2004, 10:26:30 AM »
:angry: Nicely said WOW.  
Paul

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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2004, 10:32:43 AM »
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:angry: Nicely said WOW.
"nicely said Wow."  :hail:  what are you? his mcmahon or something?
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Offline westkoast

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« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2004, 10:33:50 AM »
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:angry: Nicely said WOW.
"nicely said Wow."  :hail:  what are you? his mcmahon or something?
LOL!!!
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Offline spursfan101

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« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2004, 11:29:11 AM »
Just a compliment is all. Admire him for sticking up to the environmental wasting, non-recycling, minority hating, white only-loving, war-mongoring, morality pushin, bible thumpin, non-overtime payin, isolationist lovin, non WMD findin, Christianity is the only approved religion, right wing,poor-hatin, non-compasionate, assault weapon lovin Repubs.

And YES x3, I know you that that as a compliment! :rofl:  
Paul