Author Topic: It's All Over for the Demo's  (Read 5148 times)

Offline Joe Vancil

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It's All Over for the Demo's
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2004, 09:15:56 AM »
I think I found the guy I want running the country:  Zell Miller.

I don't care if he "flip-flops."  I don't care if he seems like an angry, ticked-off old geezer.  

The reason I like him?  The man called it like *I* see it - that the Democrats, as well as the Republicans, have forgotten what this country is supposed to be about, which is rule of the people - and the common sense of that group of people.

In the past, I've always said that I want to see younger candidates.  Well, if I'm going to have an old geezer, then I want one who sees things more like I do - that partisan politics is killing this country an inch at a time.

The people in this country aren't Democrat or Republican - they just have to vote that way.

 
Joe

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Offline Derek Bodner

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It's All Over for the Demo's
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2004, 09:22:04 AM »
Miller was a huge part of the pro-segregationist wing of the democratic party back in the day....

Guest_Randy

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« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2004, 10:02:58 AM »
It's SOOO interesting to watch politicians -- Kerry needs an image other than that of drab draperies and what happens:
1)  They choose John Edwards as a running mate because Edwards DOES have charisma (but they can't let that charisma upstage Kerry so they have to hold him back a little)
2)  To offset the image of being a stiff who doesn't give you the "warm fuzzies," they now have Kerry and Edwards hug EVERY chance they get.  Anyone else notice that sometimes Kerry chases Edwards down just to give him a hug?  Well, at least they are kissing!
3)  Kerry goes on comedy shows to try and show he has a personality -- well, it worked for Clinton but the difference is that Clinton HAD charisma!
4)  Kerry is now WINDSURFING to show himself as a "hip" old dude!

Too funny!

Of course, Bush's party isn't any better:
1)  They gave Arnie the spotlight because they knew his one-liners would bring down the house and catch publicity!
2)  Anyone catch the speech by Bush's daughters saying that their dad is "pretty cool"?  Yeah, someone wrote the script for them -- what else would they say!  Besides, mom and dad wouldn't give them party money unless they gave the speech!
3)  And then giving two demos prime time spots in order to say "even Demos won't vote for Kerry."


But someone needs to tell me why Kerry would debate Bush?  Kerry will come off looking stupid (he does that often enough WITHOUT Bush's help) trying to debate Bush -- esp. since all he has done to date is deliver campaign promises -- he has yet to develop a plan for ANY of those promises.  Bush WILL focus on that!

And Kerry is trying to make a big deal out of Bush not going to Vietnam -- if that's the main point that Kerry is going to harp on, Kerry is going to lose big time.  Bush has already stated that he believes the Kerry was a hero in Vietnam -- all he has to do is say, "I believe, Mr. Kerry, that your record in Vietnam deserves applauding (even lead the applause himself -- and then after it subsides) but Mr. Kerry, that doesn't mean that you can lead a country.  I would like to hear more than what you will do -- I'd like to hear how you are going to do it!"  Put Kerry on the defensive and keep him there all night!  Too bad they can't have Edwards debate Bush -- now THAT would be a good debate.  And I believe Edwards DOES have his own plans for the country -- perhaps, that's what Kerry will start to expound (and perhaps why Edwards agreed to run for VP).

Offline Joe Vancil

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It's All Over for the Demo's
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2004, 10:05:30 AM »
Quote
Miller was a huge part of the pro-segregationist wing of the democratic party back in the day....

Is he still?  (Prosegregation?)

I'd be willing to bet that in 40 years, there'll be some of us who think differently than we do today...figure out that we had things all wrong.  I know *I* already have changed a number of my views.

The man grew up in another era...in another time.  If he's abandoned some of the failed ideas of that time, I regard that as a positive, not a negative.



 
Joe

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jn

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It's All Over for the Demo's
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2004, 10:10:58 AM »
Joe let me see if I have this right.   You say partisan politics is tearing this country apart and then endorse a guy who delivered what was easily the most divisive speech of either convention?  A speech so wretched that David Gergen, former lead advisor to Nixon, Ford and Reagan called it "venomous."

Gergan also mentioned that Miller made a name for himself by riding the coattails of Lester Maddox.  I wonder if Zell was there when Lester stood in the doorway when of his restaurant with his ax wielding followers to keep the black people out?  

Here's a news flash for Zell.  "Trying to bring down a President" is called an ELECTION!   :nod:  
   

 

Offline Derek Bodner

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It's All Over for the Demo's
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2004, 10:13:38 AM »
Well, Joe, obviously nobody knows what he still believes.  Saying so now would be career suicide.

Offline westkoast

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« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2004, 10:28:04 AM »
How would Bush make Kerry look dumb in a debate?  Did you hear him talking about the indians and their sovereign state?  Thats stuff we learned out here in elementry school.  If anything Bush's writer may give him cue cards to give good  answers.  If they were going straight up top of the head kinda thing...there is no way in hell Bush would make anyone but himself look dumb.  Kerry is much more intelligent.

As for his speech :yawn: I heard this four years ago.  Only change is the war on terror stuff.  Which was funny because prior to the RNC Bush was saying the war on terror is not a war you can win, its always on-going.  Then in his speech last night he kept saying we will win the war on terror.  :rolleyes:

The part that disgusted me the most was the comment that if the US falters this decade the whole world is going to go to sh#$  :alcohol:  will give you ideas like that.  Its just that kind of American arrogance that pisses the people off in other countries.  There is a nice world outside of the US.  We are not the center of the universe.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2004, 10:53:26 AM by westkoast »
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jn

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It's All Over for the Demo's
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2004, 11:05:50 AM »
HA! westkoast I must have seen a different speech than you. Or maybe it was the fact that I was deep into a bottle of champange on a Thursday night for no reason other than I felt like it.  The opening of Bush's speech was apparently written by John the Revelator or perhaps stolen from some old Iron Maiden lyrics.

I'm reading some Hunter S. Thompson right now and in my tired and half innebriated state I couldn't tell the difference between his writings and Bush's speech. "Doomed, death, terror! War and evil!"  It was a magnificently weird and heavy beginning chock full of abrupt outbursts barely connected catch phrases tacked onto the end.  He kept saying "And nothing will hold us back" at the end of statements about past accomplishments. The tense was wrong and it gave the early part a disjointed effect.  

Later the speech turned mushy.  However I must thank Bush and his writers for that first half hour.  Kerry gave us a flavorless snoozer, Edwards an overcharming speech that sounded more than a little like a self help guru hawking tapes on late night TV, Arnie a comedy routine funny only to those who find Billy Crystal delightful, and both candidates daughter's gave us unnecessary maudlin family stories redeemed only by their smoking hottiness.

After that Bush's opening was a welcome relief.  Let the good times roll!  For the next two months we will all be swimming in a vast sea of nonsense.  Enjoy!!

Guest_Randy

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« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2004, 06:30:08 PM »
Quote
there is no way in hell Bush would make anyone but himself look dumb. Kerry is much more intelligent.

Don't watch the debates then -- Bush is a lot better debater than Kerry is -- I can't believe you said "Kerry and intelligent" in the same sentence!

Offline westkoast

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« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2004, 07:00:45 PM »
Quote
Quote
there is no way in hell Bush would make anyone but himself look dumb. Kerry is much more intelligent.

Don't watch the debates then -- Bush is a lot better debater than Kerry is -- I can't believe you said "Kerry and intelligent" in the same sentence!
Lemme dig up a site that has the presidents' IQ from the last 20 years.  Your favorite person, Mr. G-Dubya, got a whoppin 91 score.  Mr. John Kerry is well over 110.  In fact compared to all the presidents since Nixon, Bush is by far the dumbest one we've had.
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Guest_Dromedarius

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« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2004, 07:57:26 PM »
Some day Kerry's prostetic face will fall off and everyone who voted for him will be shocked to learn he is a military robot who stepped on a broken bottle in Vietnam, which resulted in a short of his circuits, thereby producing a mad machine which only Will Smith can stop. No, Will Smith will not punch him in the face, as he often does with aliens and robots. He will make him laugh, something Robot Kerry is not programmed to do, which will cause a chain reaction and result in the detonations of Tom Daschle and Janeane Garofalo, the only comic who has never actually made anyone laugh.

 :bash:  

Offline Derek Bodner

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It's All Over for the Demo's
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2004, 08:58:56 AM »
Bush isn't really a 91, is he?  Please don't tell me I scored 35 points higher than our current president.

Offline Joe Vancil

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It's All Over for the Demo's
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2004, 09:26:14 AM »
Quote
You say partisan politics is tearing this country apart and then endorse a guy who delivered what was easily the most divisive speech of either convention?

Exactly.  Painting an entire group that you've been a member of for years in a bad light is NEVER a popular thing.  But more often than not, it is ACCURATE.  In the next few days, I imagine you'll hear much the same thing about the Arabic newspapers that said most terrorists are Muslims.  (Check out this link:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5912071/)

Zell Miller didn't go on to criticize the Republicans, but he could have.  They're just as bad.  He simply sees them right on *ONE* issue - one which he considers overriding.  And to be quite honest, I agree.

As for the racism issue:  look back 40 years, and I'll be willing to bet you'll find that every Congressman who has been around that long has endorsed racism at some point.  To me, that's a non-issue any more.  It has been ever since the '80s.

If Miller's speech was divisive, then he was correct:  the Democrats do not support the actions take by the President toward Iraq.  It's that simple.  And if Iraq is going to be made into an issue, then I side with President Bush - whether or not I believe he was right.  Once we're in, we're all in - right or wrong.

I grew up while the Vietnam war was going on.  I've heard that war fought over and over and over in classrooms and opinions of brainwashed zombies by both sides.  I can tell you exactly what went wrong there:  when the decision was made that we were sending our soldiers there to die, we fought about whether we should have gone or not.  WHEN THE DECISION WAS MADE, EVERY AMERICAN WAS A PART OF THAT WAR, WILLING OR NOT.  Those who tried to say, "Well, I wasn't" are the problem.  They're just as tempting a target for terrorists today as the folks who supported the war...BECAUSE  ONE AMERICAN IS PRETTY MUCH THE SAME AS ANY OTHER.

Come on:  you've heard those words said about blacks, about whites, about Asians...and the world says the same thing about the attitudes of Americans.  They are the words of stereotype - and stereotype is a universal language.

We allowed the country to be divided on Vietnam, and we're doing the same thing on Iraq.

We need to support our soldiers and our leaders - at least, publicly.  If we disagree, we'll replace the Congressmen, and have them cut off funding, and let them tell the President, "Bring our troops home."  But we won't leave our soldiers out there to die, or to be stung by our criticism of their actions, and we DEFINITELY won't rally the folks fighting against them.

My friend Bill Massino, singer for Three Pints Gone (and also ex-military), often says in his Memorial Day show in St. Louis that soldiers recognize the fact that their lives are a commodity, and that if they are to be spent, then they want it to be spent well and with purpose.  That applied in WWII (which is the war the song Bill sings is about), but it also applied in Vietnam, and it applies in Iraq.

WE ALL WENT TO IRAQ.  A congressman saying otherwise isn't fit to be in Congress, much less fit to lead the country, most especially as President.

I refused to vote for Bush in the 2000 election because I believe the man is a thief.  (If you walk into a bank, walk out of the bank with money while the bank has no money, and you don't have debt, then in my book, you're a bankrobber.)  I'll refuse to vote for him again.  But there's no way in the world I'll vote for Kerry.
  I feel that to do so would be a betrayal of our troops.

 
Joe

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Offline Derek Bodner

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It's All Over for the Demo's
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2004, 02:39:01 PM »
Supporting troops and supporting the decision to go to war, IMO, are two different things.

I'll support every one of those troops  over there.  But I will not support the decision to go to war, nor will I support all the tactics and strategies used over there.

The decision to go to war is not irrelevant.  The only thing that can accurately predict the future is the past.  And with a possible GW Bush re-election, the future is  of concern.

rickortreat

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It's All Over for the Demo's
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2004, 03:36:35 PM »
The Republicans are in more trouble than any of you realize, because the average American is concerned about his job and making ends meet, and the Republicans are clueless morons with no plan for the future.

Freedom is being taken away in America by the Republicans. Bush is a facist. If you don't believe me, do a little research into how protestors were treated in NYC. And while you're at it read the Patriot Acts and compare them with the US Constitution and your rights as an American citizen.

Also consider that the Twin Towers were destroyed on this Bush's watch, and he was caught napping. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, haven't made us any safer. The terrorists are active all over the world, including the former Soviet Union.

We still haven't captured Bin Laden, and there is no apparent plan to deal with the Religious and cultural friction between Radical Islam and the rest of the world.

We aren't winning the war on terror, because they are makeing more of them every day. Bush has no understanding or the capacity to comprehened how to fight this war. We went into Iraq for the oil and because Bush wanted to get Hussein.

We still don't know how much it cost us, in terms of money, men and materials, not to mention the goodwill of the rest of the world.

I'm not sure about Kerry, but I'm sure that Bush is a jackass and an idiot. He's an embarrassment to America in the rest of the world for a reason. The Germans and the French and the Russians hate him, and we're all in this together with the war on terror.

Oh yeah, before I forget- our economy is going down the tubes because your government creates money out of this air and foreigners are beginning to figure it out. That's why it's costing you more to live here, and why you may be having trouble making a living. You should also know that your government is lying to you about the economy- GDP, employment figures and every other important metric to tell you how our country is doing are not computed the same way as they used to be. They don't want you to realize how incomptent they are in running the country, or how they've sold you down the river to international companies and the Chinese and Japanese goverments.

We better wake up as a nation and realize what is happening. Bush is about as good for the US as Hitler was for Germany.

I'd like you all to step back and think about what it is to be an American and and what is important for your goverment to do and not do to support your rights to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness.

Janice Joplin wrote "Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose" and what did Bush promise for the future? What right do we have to promote Democracy and freedom in the world? He's suppossed to be taking care of America and limit our foreign engagements. Instead he's using world affairs as a smokescreen to obscure our domestic problems. Too bad we're collectively too stupid to realize that emotional appeals and jingoism are no substitute for responsible government.